Congrats to Ron Santo Golden Era Committee HOF selection !!

[elmalo]

I'm happy for ole Ronnie. Just an absolute travesty that they waited this long. IMO he should've been in 10 yrs ago. It's not like his numbers magically got better. Congrats Ronnie, RIP

~AJ

Cardinals homer in the house. I suppose if Ron could've done backflips he would've gotten in first ballot.

+1, exactly right. Santo is easily one of the best third basemen of all time and it's very much a shame this didn't happen last year. Hopefully Ronnie is clicking his heels in heaven.

Why didn't it happen all the years prior to that then? I just don't understand. You're either HOF worthy, or you're not. He wasn't worthy all of those years prior, what makes him worthy now?


I have just always been of the thinking that it should just be the very best of the best voted in, and those are guys who are worthy of being voted in on the first ballot. If you have to wait several years and years to get in, what makes you more worthy THEN than your first chance on the ballot?

Did you ever think that perhaps he was worthy all of those years ago and it was the voters who were wrong?

 

[fkw]

he hit over .275, had over 300 HRs and over 2000 hits... plus led the league in WALKS 4 times .....obvious HOFer

NOW you got to let in Garvey, Oliva, Mattingly, Munson, Kluszewski, Colovito, Cash, Minoso, Sain, Hodges, Madlock, Maris, FHoward, Tiant, Staub, RSmith, Kaat, Blue, Foster, Cedeno, Parker, TSimmons, and dozens of other just as good (not great).....

lets get that HOF up to 1,000 memeber by 2015!!!

He did it in 15 seasons, while battling diabetes, at one of the most demanding positions in the game.

He is one of the top 10 third basemen of all time. The fact that there are less 3B in the HOF than any other position player shows how tough it is.

I think people also fail to realize how under-treated and over-looked diabetes was in this era.

He was basically self-medicating during games with candy, and his teammates thought it was "funny" to eat them all while he was in the field.

3rd baseman, SS, 2nd baseman, who cares what infield possiton the guy played, ...Matt Williams blows Santo away, and he shouldnt be a HOFer.......

Pete Gray had one Arm, Jim Abbott one Hand, ...should they be HOFers in your eyes too????

Lefty O'Doul hit .349 in 11 MLB seasons .........and is NOT a (MLB) HOFer

 

[sportscardtheory]

I believe that people who don't think Ron Santo is Hall-worthy don't know what the Hall of Fame is about. You are out of your mind if you truly think that a player who was very easily top-10 all-time at a position of value isn't worthy of the HOF.

 

[elmalo]

he hit over .275, had over 300 HRs and over 2000 hits... plus led the league in WALKS 4 times .....obvious HOFer

NOW you got to let in Garvey, Oliva, Mattingly, Munson, Kluszewski, Colovito, Cash, Minoso, Sain, Hodges, Madlock, Maris, FHoward, Tiant, Staub, RSmith, Kaat, Blue, Foster, Cedeno, Parker, TSimmons, and dozens of other just as good (not great).....

lets get that HOF up to 1,000 memeber by 2015!!!

NONE of those guys is beloved the way Santo was. That is what put Santo over the simple stats and into the Hall in my view. That bothers a lot of the statistically-minded people around. So be it.

Mattingly, Munson, Tiant, Hodges and Minoso werent as beloved?

 

[elmalo]

he hit over .275, had over 300 HRs and over 2000 hits... plus led the league in WALKS 4 times .....obvious HOFer

NOW you got to let in Garvey, Oliva, Mattingly, Munson, Kluszewski, Colovito, Cash, Minoso, Sain, Hodges, Madlock, Maris, FHoward, Tiant, Staub, RSmith, Kaat, Blue, Foster, Cedeno, Parker, TSimmons, and dozens of other just as good (not great).....

lets get that HOF up to 1,000 memeber by 2015!!!

He did it in 15 seasons, while battling diabetes, at one of the most demanding positions in the game.

He is one of the top 10 third basemen of all time. The fact that there are less 3B in the HOF than any other position player shows how tough it is.

I think people also fail to realize how under-treated and over-looked diabetes was in this era.

He was basically self-medicating during games with candy, and his teammates thought it was "funny" to eat them all while he was in the field.

3rd baseman, SS, 2nd baseman, who cares what infield possiton the guy played, ...Matt Williams blows Santo away, and he shouldnt be a HOFer.......

Pete Gray had one Arm, Jim Abbott one Hand, ...should they be HOFers in your eyes too????

Lefty O'Doul hit .349 in 11 MLB seasons .........and is NOT a (MLB) HOFer

How does Matt Williams blow Santo away? Especially considering that Santo played in an era dominated by pitching and Williams played in an era dominated by hitting.

 

[ChasHawk]

3rd baseman, SS, 2nd baseman, who cares what infield possiton the guy played, ...Matt Williams blows Santo away, and he shouldnt be a HOFer.......

On November 6, 2007, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that Williams purchased $11,600 worth of human growth hormone, steroids and other drugs from the Palm Beach clinic in 2002.[2] Williams later told the Chronicle he used HGH on the advice of a doctor to treat an ankle injury he suffered during spring training in 2002.

On December 13, 2007, he was named among the dozens of players alleged to have used steroids in the Mitchell Report, commissioned by Major League Baseball and written by former Senator George J. Mitchell.[3]

Williams became eligible for the National Baseball Hall of Fame in 2009. He received just 1.3% of the votes, and was dropped off the ballot

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

he hit over .275, had over 300 HRs and over 2000 hits... plus led the league in WALKS 4 times .....obvious HOFer

NOW you got to let in Garvey, Oliva, Mattingly, Munson, Kluszewski, Colovito, Cash, Minoso, Sain, Hodges, Madlock, Maris, FHoward, Tiant, Staub, RSmith, Kaat, Blue, Foster, Cedeno, Parker, TSimmons, and dozens of other just as good (not great).....

lets get that HOF up to 1,000 memeber by 2015!!!

NONE of those guys is beloved the way Santo was. That is what put Santo over the simple stats and into the Hall in my view. That bothers a lot of the statistically-minded people around. So be it.

Mattingly, Munson, Tiant, Hodges and Minoso werent as beloved?

I don't think so, no. But that is obviously very subjective and dependent on a team's culture.

 

[ChasHawk]

By the way, here are those slash-lines again that I posted earlier with a new addition...

.277/.362/.464/.826
.267/.322/.401/.723
.268/.317/.489/.805

Three 3B...two of them are in the HOF...I'll let you tell me who's who.

 

[Mozzie22]

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":33szkrux]

he hit over .275, had over 300 HRs and over 2000 hits... plus led the league in WALKS 4 times .....obvious HOFer

NOW you got to let in Garvey, Oliva, Mattingly, Munson, Kluszewski, Colovito, Cash, Minoso, Sain, Hodges, Madlock, Maris, FHoward, Tiant, Staub, RSmith, Kaat, Blue, Foster, Cedeno, Parker, TSimmons, and dozens of other just as good (not great).....

lets get that HOF up to 1,000 memeber by 2015!!!

NONE of those guys is beloved the way Santo was. That is what put Santo over the simple stats and into the Hall in my view. That bothers a lot of the statistically-minded people around. So be it.

Mattingly, Munson, Tiant, Hodges and Minoso werent as beloved?

I don't think so, no. But that is obviously very subjective and dependent on a team's culture.[/quote:33szkrux]

Don Mattingly is/was one of the most beloved players I have ever seen, and that was in NY. I think it is important to remember that Santo was a very popular player but Ron Santo became "Ron Santo" once he got on the air. You either loved him or hated him as an announcer but make no mistake, he was a fan favorite as a player but he became a Cubs legend in part because of the last 20 years on the air.

That being said I still think he deserves to be in the HOF. Voters get these stupid benchmark numbers (500 hr, 3000 hits, 300 wins) and if you fail to reach these you are often forgotten.

 

[George_Calfas]

Congrats to Ron Santo and the Santo family.

Santo failed to make the Hall of Fame in his 15 years of eligibility on the Baseball Writers Association of America ballot and also in numerous forms of the Veterans Committee. He missed by nine votes in 2008 ballot of a post 1943 committee, and his highest vote total on BBWAA ballot was 43.1 percent in 1998.

 

[chromerookies]

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":15ni1s4p]

he hit over .275, had over 300 HRs and over 2000 hits... plus led the league in WALKS 4 times .....obvious HOFer

NOW you got to let in Garvey, Oliva, Mattingly, Munson, Kluszewski, Colovito, Cash, Minoso, Sain, Hodges, Madlock, Maris, FHoward, Tiant, Staub, RSmith, Kaat, Blue, Foster, Cedeno, Parker, TSimmons, and dozens of other just as good (not great).....

lets get that HOF up to 1,000 memeber by 2015!!!

NONE of those guys is beloved the way Santo was. That is what put Santo over the simple stats and into the Hall in my view. That bothers a lot of the statistically-minded people around. So be it.

Mattingly, Munson, Tiant, Hodges and Minoso werent as beloved?

I don't think so, no. But that is obviously very subjective and dependent on a team's culture.

Don Mattingly is/was one of the most beloved players I have ever seen, and that was in NY. I think it is important to remember that Santo was a very popular player but Ron Santo became "Ron Santo" once he got on the air. You either loved him or hated him as an announcer but make no mistake, he was a fan favorite as a player but he became a Cubs legend in part because of the last 20 years on the air.

That being said I still think he deserves to be in the HOF. Voters get these stupid benchmark numbers (500 hr, 3000 hits, 300 wins) and if you fail to reach these you are often forgotten.[/quote:15ni1s4p]

Very true and a very good point! Stats are a big part of considering a player for induction but there are other factors to consider such as Brooks Robinson's induction

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":gmz3m4y6]

he hit over .275, had over 300 HRs and over 2000 hits... plus led the league in WALKS 4 times .....obvious HOFer

NOW you got to let in Garvey, Oliva, Mattingly, Munson, Kluszewski, Colovito, Cash, Minoso, Sain, Hodges, Madlock, Maris, FHoward, Tiant, Staub, RSmith, Kaat, Blue, Foster, Cedeno, Parker, TSimmons, and dozens of other just as good (not great).....

lets get that HOF up to 1,000 memeber by 2015!!!

NONE of those guys is beloved the way Santo was. That is what put Santo over the simple stats and into the Hall in my view. That bothers a lot of the statistically-minded people around. So be it.

Mattingly, Munson, Tiant, Hodges and Minoso werent as beloved?

I don't think so, no. But that is obviously very subjective and dependent on a team's culture.

Don Mattingly is/was one of the most beloved players I have ever seen, and that was in NY. I think it is important to remember that Santo was a very popular player but Ron Santo became "Ron Santo" once he got on the air. You either loved him or hated him as an announcer but make no mistake, he was a fan favorite as a player but he became a Cubs legend in part because of the last 20 years on the air.

That being said I still think he deserves to be in the HOF. Voters get these stupid benchmark numbers (500 hr, 3000 hits, 300 wins) and if you fail to reach these you are often forgotten.[/quote:gmz3m4y6]
All of this is to my point. Santo is ingrained in Cubs (and therefore MLB's) culture to a point those other players are not with their respective teams.

 

[fkw]

Santo's career road split...

126 HRs
588 RBIs
.257 BA
.406 SLG

pfft....

 

[RandomH]

Very happy to see him finally get it.

 

[mchenrycards]

he hit over .275, had over 300 HRs and over 2000 hits... plus led the league in WALKS 4 times .....obvious HOFer

NOW you got to let in Garvey, Oliva, Mattingly, Munson, Kluszewski, Colovito, Cash, Minoso, Sain, Hodges, Madlock, Maris, FHoward, Tiant, Staub, RSmith, Kaat, Blue, Foster, Cedeno, Parker, TSimmons, and dozens of other just as good (not great).....

lets get that HOF up to 1,000 memeber by 2015!!!

He did it in 15 seasons, while battling diabetes, at one of the most demanding positions in the game.

He is one of the top 10 third basemen of all time. The fact that there are less 3B in the HOF than any other position player shows how tough it is.

I think people also fail to realize how under-treated and over-looked diabetes was in this era.

He was basically self-medicating during games with candy, and his teammates thought it was "funny" to eat them all while he was in the field.

While I don't believe Santo should be in the HOF, it was amazing he did it back then being a Type 1 diabetic. Back then, you could only take Cow/Pig origin insulin, which the body would build up a resistance to over time.

Lets all imagine the kind of numbers he would have put up if he didnt retire at the age of 34 BECAUSE of the diabetes!! Imagine, retiring in your prime because of an illness that should have kept you out of the game alltogether.

For thise who say he didnt have the numbers, lets look at guys like Puckett and now Santo who were forced to retiree and not have a lengthy career ike the others had the opportunity to have. These variables need to be taken into consideration as well when considering if someone should be in the hall or not!!

As someone who grew up watching Santo on WGN and in person hundreds of times, there is no doubt he belongs n the hall. He was the glue that held those Cubs teams together. If you have Banks, Williams and jenkins in the hall.....there is no doubt that Santo has to be included with those names as well.

 

[morgoth]

Santo's career road split...

126 HRs
588 RBIs
.257 BA
.406 SLG

pfft....

Enter nitwit number 1

 

[ajbraves25]

I'm not trying to be a dick, or a homer Cardinals fan here, but.........

I'm sorry, but Ron Santo doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. If you have to wait this long to get in, you don't deserve it. NOBODY DOES. In my mind, you're either first ballot worthy, or you AREN'T WORTHY! It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Really Good Players. Their should just be the cream of the crop voted in. Not sympathy votes. Whitey Herzog didn't deserve it either. If you have to wait that long to get in, there's a reason for it, you're not worthy.

I know the Veterans Committee voted him in, but I call BS.

Guess he should have done some back flips

Way to steal my first page thunder.

~AJ

 

[craftysouthpaw]

I'm happy for ole Ronnie. Just an absolute travesty that they waited this long. IMO he should've been in 10 yrs ago. It's not like his numbers magically got better. Congrats Ronnie, RIP

~AJ

Cardinals homer in the house. I suppose if Ron could've done backflips he would've gotten in first ballot.

+1, exactly right. Santo is easily one of the best third basemen of all time and it's very much a shame this didn't happen last year. Hopefully Ronnie is clicking his heels in heaven.

Why didn't it happen all the years prior to that then? I just don't understand. You're either HOF worthy, or you're not. He wasn't worthy all of those years prior, what makes him worthy now?


I have just always been of the thinking that it should just be the very best of the best voted in, and those are guys who are worthy of being voted in on the first ballot. If you have to wait several years and years to get in, what makes you more worthy THEN than your first chance on the ballot?

"You're either HOF worthy, or you're not". You're exactly right. And Santo is worthy - the writers just missed him. Just because a group of stodgy old men don't do their homework, have agendas, or both doesn't necessarily mean a guy shouldn't be in the HOF. And what has changed is enough people now better understand player evaluations and context. You can't compare Santo with Matt Williams because of the drastically different run scoring environments in which they played.

This wasn't (or shouldn't have been) a sympathy vote but merely because he is one of the top 10 3rd basemen to ever play the game and his inclusion raises the overall standards of the Hall. That isn't a very good player. That is a great player.

As for these other guys mentioned from a different post (Garvey, Oliva, Mattingly, Munson, Kluszewski, Colovito, Cash, Minoso, Sain, Hodges, Madlock, Maris, FHoward, Tiant, Staub, RSmith, Kaat, Blue, Foster, Cedeno, Parker, TSimmons), the only two that can make valid claims to being a top 10 at his position guy is Minoso and Simmons. No one else is even close.

 

[Mozzie22]

I'm not trying to be a dick, or a homer Cardinals fan here, but.........

I'm sorry, but Ron Santo doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. If you have to wait this long to get in, you don't deserve it. NOBODY DOES. In my mind, you're either first ballot worthy, or you AREN'T WORTHY! It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Really Good Players. Their should just be the cream of the crop voted in. Not sympathy votes. Whitey Herzog didn't deserve it either. If you have to wait that long to get in, there's a reason for it, you're not worthy.

I know the Veterans Committee voted him in, but I call BS.

Guess he should have done some back flips

You're right, he should have done some heel clicks or something... oh wait. ::facepalm::

 

[ChasHawk]

I'm not trying to be a dick, or a homer Cardinals fan here, but.........

I'm sorry, but Ron Santo doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. If you have to wait this long to get in, you don't deserve it. NOBODY DOES. In my mind, you're either first ballot worthy, or you AREN'T WORTHY! It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Really Good Players. Their should just be the cream of the crop voted in. Not sympathy votes. Whitey Herzog didn't deserve it either. If you have to wait that long to get in, there's a reason for it, you're not worthy.

I know the Veterans Committee voted him in, but I call BS.

Guess he should have done some back flips

You're right, he should have done some heel clicks or something... oh wait. ::facepalm::

Heel clicks actually caused him to be disliked by some, so your attempt at a dig falls flat.