ESPN Reporting: Highly possible no one voted into the HOF this year

[MansGame]

Not a fan of Biggios 3,000 hits Mac?

3,000 hits is a great accomplishment don't get me wrong but that alone I don't think punches your ticket to Cooperstown

 

[MansGame]

Piazza? Seriously? He's the greatest hitting catcher of all-time. It will be criminal if he doesn't make it this year.

Okay, put him in...

 

[cmnkb8]

I think Piazza definitely should be in. He had a long career, was the best pure hitter at his position for a large part of that, and hit the most HR's of any C in history. It'd be a travesty if he were left out.

Not convinced on any of the other guys though, except maybe Bonds, since he was already great before the steroids. Juicing made him god-like as a hitter, although I think his stats still would've been great without it, but of course there's no way to say for sure.

 

[19braves77]

We know 30 percent of the ballots has Biggio at 70 % and Bagwell at 68%.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I think Piazza definitely should be in. He had a long career, was the best pure hitter at his position for a large part of that, and hit the most HR's of any C in history. It'd be a travesty if he were left out.

Not convinced on any of the other guys though, except maybe Bonds, since he was already great before the steroids. Juicing made him god-like as a hitter, although I think his stats still would've been great without it, but of course there's no way to say for sure.

Ya'll are aware that PIazza is also linked to PEDs...

That's reason enough for a lot of voters to want to keep him out.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

I don't think I mentioned one stat. That being said, what should I be looking at? Mike Piazza being the first gay HOF'er? The addition of Schilling's sock?

The fact that they ALLEGEDLY cheated? The HOF is full of cheaters, wife-beaters, gamblers, thieves, conmen, alcoholics, drug addicts and scumbags.

You should be looking at all the HOF criteria of course. By not looking at stats you're saying these guys had character and integrity before steroids...? The fact that they're widely acknowledged to have taken PEDs (all proof aside) clearly shows they never had HOF character or integrity. The only thing these guys had were stats.

What exactly do cheaters, wife-beaters, gamblers, thieves, conmen, alcoholics, drug addicts and scumbags have to do with playing the game of baseball... ?

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

You should be looking at all the HOF criteria of course. By not looking at stats you're saying these guys had character and integrity before steroids...? The fact that they're widely acknowledged to have taken PEDs (all proof aside) clearly shows they never had HOF character or integrity. The only thing these guys had were stats.

What exactly do cheaters, wife-beaters, gamblers, thieves, conmen, alcoholics, drug addicts and scumbags have to do with playing the game of baseball... ?

When I read your first paragraph, I get the impression that you feel PED users lack character and integrity. But your second paragraph suggests to me that you don't think cheaters, wife-beaters, gamblers, thieves, conmen, alcoholics, drug addicts and scumbags also lack character and integrity. Did I read those right, or am I missing something here? Or are you simply applying character and integrity in your equation as they relate to the sanctity of baseball, such that any off-field actions aren't to be considered in HoF-worthiness?

 

[MansGame]

I'm sorry but can someone please make a case for Biggio... In MY opinion, he played 20 years or 19 FULL years in the MLB and barely got over the 3,000 hit mark finishing at 3,060 lol... his season averages are not that impressive honestly... and if you're argument is that he played a long time, so his season averages aren't something you should look at, then you can't say "well he hit 3,000 hits" because clearly he wouldn't of got there if he played only 19 seasons in the MLB!

Again, just my opinion but would love a homer for Biggio and their strong case for him punching a ticket for Cooperstown...

 

[MojoDan]

So you aren't a fan of longevity when it comes to statistics Mac? Or are you saying he should've been around the 3500-4000 hit mark in your opinion?

 

[HPC]

Funny how there's no speculation surrounding Craig Biggio. Also comical how the writers are protesting or whatever. Pretty sure every single one of them were praising the homerun chase between McGuire and Sosa, all loving Barry Bonds and this-and-that. For one, I don't think that you should not include the steroid users. Not one of us didn't love that era so why neglect it now?

Of course they were praising "The Chase."

They are writers...their livelihood revolves around having something controversial to write about.

Now that the topic is The Steroid Era, they write their condescending and hypocritical views about that.

The HOF is becoming a joke with their voting procedures and the stupid game they play with first year nominees.

Seriously, look up who some of the voters are. Some havent covered baseball in years but they get to choose who gets in?

 

[RZimm11]

I've tried year after year to get together with my friend to make a trip to the Hall of Fame. I've been a baseball fan all my life.

If nobody gets in this year, I could care less about going. Total crock!

 

[19braves77]

Piazza is in the low 40's with 30% of the known ballots.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

When I read your first paragraph, I get the impression that you feel PED users lack character and integrity. But your second paragraph suggests to me that you don't think cheaters, wife-beaters, gamblers, thieves, conmen, alcoholics, drug addicts and scumbags also lack character and integrity. Did I read those right, or am I missing something here? Or are you simply applying character and integrity in your equation as they relate to the sanctity of baseball, such that any off-field actions aren't to be considered in HoF-worthiness?

Yeah, I'm as stumped as you were by that response. I'm not sure how to continue the discussion...

 

[MansGame]

So you aren't a fan of longevity when it comes to statistics Mac? Or are you saying he should've been around the 3500-4000 hit mark in your opinion?

I am def a fan of longevity, no doubt... but that alone doesn't get you into the HOF. The only real case for Biggio is nearly him versus others at his position all-time, that's it... you can't make a case for him alone among all baseball greats... only those who played second base... I'm not a fan of that but I also don't vote lol

Looking at his averages... was a 175 hits, 100 runs, 40 doubles, 15 HR, .280 hitter guy... yea, great player to have on a team for 20 years straight but that I guess I'm just not floored with this numbers myself... I'm obviously in the minority lol

EDIT ADD: Also, 25 stolen bases every year... forgot that.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

When I read your first paragraph, I get the impression that you feel PED users lack character and integrity. But your second paragraph suggests to me that you don't think cheaters, wife-beaters, gamblers, thieves, conmen, alcoholics, drug addicts and scumbags also lack character and integrity. Did I read those right, or am I missing something here? Or are you simply applying character and integrity in your equation as they relate to the sanctity of baseball, such that any off-field actions aren't to be considered in HoF-worthiness?

Even PED users have different degrees of character and integrity - so I can see certain PED users getting in eventually and wouldn't necessarily have a problem with it depending on the circumstance. However Bonds and Clemens in particular have pretty much shown the lowest levels of integrity and character imaginable - they put themselves above the game. None of this is black and white and involves subjectivity.

Of course character and integrity only apply to the game itself... by the same token its not like a player can get credit for an RBI off the diamond. HOF criteria apply to baseball.

 

[MansGame]

I am def a fan of longevity, no doubt... but that alone doesn't get you into the HOF. The only real case for Biggio is nearly him versus others at his position all-time, that's it... you can't make a case for him alone among all baseball greats... only those who played second base... I'm not a fan of that but I also don't vote lol

Looking at his averages... was a 175 hits, 100 runs, 40 doubles, 15 HR, .280 hitter guy... yea, great player to have on a team for 20 years straight but that I guess I'm just not floored with this numbers myself... I'm obviously in the minority lol

EDIT ADD: Also, 25 stolen bases every year... forgot that.

To reply to my own post, how about these season avg. for a guy who didn't make the Hall as a comparison... 180 hits, 100 runs, 40 doubles, 40 HR, .295 hitter and 10 stolen bases guy

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Yeah, I'm as stumped as you were by that response. I'm not sure how to continue the discussion...

You're just looking at the issue in black and white... and only looking at stats.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Please expand on your premise that certain PED users have different levels of character and integrity given your blanket assertion that no one who has taken an PED deserves to be in the HOF.

If you mean how they handled themselves after being accused, I can't see how that's relevant to their on field accomplishments.

If Bonds hit 762 home runs with PEDs, and Pujols comes out after he retires and says he used PEDs after hitting 785 HRs, does Pujols belong in? Because he admitted it? I don't quite understand your logic.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

You're just looking at the issue in black and white... and only looking at stats.

No, I wasn't. I considered the athletes that CLemens and Bonds were prior to the alleged use of PEDs, and they would have gotten in had they continued that career path, in my opinion.

If I was just looking at stats, I'd also vote for Sosa and McGwire and Biggio. THere's more than just numbers.

 

[cmnkb8]

Ya'll are aware that PIazza is also linked to PEDs...

That's reason enough for a lot of voters to want to keep him out.

There are rumors, but nothing more. It'd be a damn shame if writers keep him out just because some people with an agenda said he took PEDs. Then again, writers always have preconceived notions about certain players and don't really vote on merit. HOF voting really is more of a popularity contest. Still, it'd be a shame if #31 doesn't get in.