How Do I Trust PSA/DNA After All Of This?

[Tom Oates]

Someone on the old beckett board had a scan of a PSA/DNA authenticated McGuire autograph but the card was clearly a fascimile autograph that was printed by the manufacturer on the card. Wish I would have saved a copy of that image. There were a lot of other PSA/DNA errors in that thread.

 

[Adamsince1981]

I purchased a Ken Boyer cut autograph from 2007 SP Legendary cuts and re-sold it because I finally stopped living in denial and sold it as I personally did not believe it to be real.

My only personal experience with PSA was with a McGwire autographed baseball that I recieved IP on a ball that R. Latchman gave to me...they authenticated it and I sold it for $650.

I'll say this...this thread really bothers me.

 

[predatorkj]

The other side of that coin: There is a lot less scrutiny for no name players. The fact that one might think nobody would ever fake a Craig Smajstrla autograph is exactly why someone would forge one. Forging a Mickey Mantle is harder than forging Mike White. Who even has examples of Mike White on file?

I think the only thing keeping people back from forging a no namer is the fact that...unless hes a local guy...who the hell would buy it?I know me, you, and a few other friends of mine collect astros autos that may or may not be worth a dime(some are and some aren't) but I know that if I were to go across the country or even around here and find a few no namers of people that play for teams other than the ones that are local...it would be hard for me to believe they are all fake.Because even if they could be profitable for the seller if he were to ever sell one...I seriously doubt he would waste his time trying to fake something that nobody would ever try to bother buying.Of course over the internet and through ebay...well that kinda kills my argument.Thats why I try to focus on guys who are being sold in a shop and who are not local guys or who are local but nobody would buy anyway. You would buy that Smajstrla auto...and maybe I would too.But how many others would?

I don't know.It can be tricky one way or the other.Every arguement has a good counter to it so I am not sure what to think other than getting things in person is the way to go and you better hope like hell you are able to do it otherwise...you may be left buying something that is not real.

 

[stlalways94]

I really do not trust any of them. I have seen horriffic mistakes for fakes getting slabbed and the real thing getting deamed fake. I have more trust in the "Autograph Opinions" section on SCN more than I do any authenticating company, becuase of the fact that with SCN you have hundreds of collectors comparing your autographs. Not just 10 people who haven't even heard of a quarter of the people they authenticate autographs of. I am personally working on a thing in Paint.NET that will have side-by-side pictures of every authentic Miguel Cabrera autograph variation since 2000. That will at least help me for my player collection... [/rant]

 

[autocut]

While there may be a real problem, it's important not to try to pile "fake" issues on top of real ones. Some of the cases mentioned are simply mistakes by the person typing up the COA. To put Jackie Robinson instead of Brooks Robinson on the COA does not mean they actually could not tell one signature from the other, that is ridiculous. Should such mistakes happen? No they shouldn't, but if that's the issue it's a small one.

The problem on authenticating auto's that aren't authentic is a much bigger issue.

Not the mistakes we are referring to. Referring to these:

Mark McGwire rubber stamp authenticated.

Albert Pujols facsimile authenticated.

Two #13/13? Some cards I wouldn't touch.

 

[autocut]

Don't forget the Mark McGwire rubber stamp or the Albert Pujols facsimile. I think anyone who collect autographs need to do their own homework, even if it is pack pulled. I've always loved this infamous card. Funny how the guy's name is Roy Rogers Jr. and not RoDgers. I'm sure he would know how to spell his own name.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Roy-Rodgers-Autogra ... 7C294%3A50

This is what his autograph looks like:

I wouldn't feel out of place, and I might be in the minority, but I STRONGLY feel the Rogers is real. My guess is he saw his name misspelled on the card and added the "d" to humor himself when signing.

Funny how the company disconnected its phone and disappeared after this was discovered and was printed in a couple of publications.

 

[Therion]

Don't forget the Mark McGwire rubber stamp or the Albert Pujols facsimile. I think anyone who collect autographs need to do their own homework, even if it is pack pulled. I've always loved this infamous card. Funny how the guy's name is Roy Rogers Jr. and not RoDgers. I'm sure he would know how to spell his own name.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Roy-Rodgers-Autogra ... 7C294%3A50

This is what his autograph looks like:

I wouldn't feel out of place, and I might be in the minority, but I STRONGLY feel the Rogers is real. My guess is he saw his name misspelled on the card and added the "d" to humor himself when signing.

Funny how the company disconnected its phone and disappeared after this was discovered and was printed in a couple of publications.

Also, look at the "o" in both names and the lowercase "r" in his last name. I don't think those two cards were signed by the same person.

 

[predatorkj]

Don't forget the Mark McGwire rubber stamp or the Albert Pujols facsimile. I think anyone who collect autographs need to do their own homework, even if it is pack pulled. I've always loved this infamous card. Funny how the guy's name is Roy Rogers Jr. and not RoDgers. I'm sure he would know how to spell his own name.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Roy-Rodgers-Autogra ... 7C294%3A50

This is what his autograph looks like:

I wouldn't feel out of place, and I might be in the minority, but I STRONGLY feel the Rogers is real. My guess is he saw his name misspelled on the card and added the "d" to humor himself when signing.

Funny how the company disconnected its phone and disappeared after this was discovered and was printed in a couple of publications.

Also, look at the "o" in both names and the lowercase "r" in his last name. I don't think those two cards were signed by the same person.

I can't speak for the examples above because I would be talking out my rear end but as far as Bagwell...I always notice at least three letters out of his first and last name are always the same.I can usually tell you whether or not he signed the item just by looking at these.But I will notice and on others as well that some of the other letters in the name are changed.Sometimes you can read it better than others.Every single autograph is different some way but I usually key in on a certain few and go from there.Chances are these would eb hard to fake.Especially all three I am referring to.Even if they get by one...the other two combined would eb very hard to get by on.But...I guess it can be done.

 

[bc81758]

I really do not trust any of them. I have seen horriffic mistakes for fakes getting slabbed and the real thing getting deamed fake. I have more trust in the "Autograph Opinions" section on SCN more than I do any authenticating company, becuase of the fact that with SCN you have hundreds of collectors comparing your autographs. Not just 10 people who haven't even heard of a quarter of the people they authenticate autographs of. I am personally working on a thing in Paint.NET that will have side-by-side pictures of every authentic Miguel Cabrera autograph variation since 2000. That will at least help me for my player collection... [/rant]

Even on a graphing site, you will not always necessarily know that what people are saying to you that a graph you got is legit or not is telling you the truth.

If you did not see the athlete sign your item, there will always be a ? mark if the sig you pulled out of pack, bought at a sports memorabilia shop or got through the mail is real or fake, bottom line.

 

[bc81758]

Autograph Alert News

PSA/DNA has authenticated the following just off of their first page:

Martin Van Buren secretarial signature
Cy Young spelled Cy Yooung
Mary Pickford stamp
Bo Jackson preprinted on a book (Yes, they authenticated a pre-print as authentic)
Andrew Johnson stamp
Teddy Roosevelt secretarial signature
Danny Thomas authenticated as Danny Kaye
Dwight Eisenhower secretarial signature
George Romero authenticated as G.A. Laurell (someone that likely doesn't even exist)
Lamar Hunt authenticated as Leon Hart
Franklin Roosevelt secretarial signature
Cyril Chadwick authenticated as April Chadwick (another fictional person)
Willie Mays authenticated as Hank Aaron (seriously)

Well, looks like Autograph Alert has put Razor under the same microscope with the presidential cuts.

 

[P_Manning 18]

Autograph Alert News

PSA/DNA has authenticated the following just off of their first page:

Martin Van Buren secretarial signature
Cy Young spelled Cy Yooung
Mary Pickford stamp
Bo Jackson preprinted on a book (Yes, they authenticated a pre-print as authentic)
Andrew Johnson stamp
Teddy Roosevelt secretarial signature
Danny Thomas authenticated as Danny Kaye
Dwight Eisenhower secretarial signature
George Romero authenticated as G.A. Laurell (someone that likely doesn't even exist)
Lamar Hunt authenticated as Leon Hart
Franklin Roosevelt secretarial signature
Cyril Chadwick authenticated as April Chadwick (another fictional person)
Willie Mays authenticated as Hank Aaron (seriously)

Well, looks like Autograph Alert has put Razor under the same microscope with the presidential cuts.

:shock: Not good. :shock:

 

[Therion]

Indeed. I warned. I was hated for it. Now we'll just see how it plays out.

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

Ugly, just ugly... :evil:

It is common for dealers with large inventories to get hundreds of their items passed whil a regular collector gets an IP auto rejected!!!!

 

[sportscardtheory]

The only way to stop this is to create an authentication company that does things the right way. PSA, JSA and the like, are in far too deep to ever claw their way back to being respectable. I think a bunch of true auto experts should get together and create an "end all" company based not on bottom line, but on keeping the spending public safe from forgeries and fraud to rival and knock out these thieves.

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

The only way to stop this is to create an authentication company that does things the right way. PSA, JSA and the like, are in far too deep to ever claw their way back to being respectable. I think a bunch of true auto experts should get together and create an "end all" company based not on bottom line, but on keeping the spending public safe from forgeries and fraud to rival and knock out these thieves.

Razor Authenticating?

 

[cgilmo]

just for some background information


who runs that autograph watch dog site?

 

[Penno]

This just had to get bumped up the night I plan to purchase a high end PSA Baseball. :lol:

I am seriously second guessing getting the ball, unfortunately.

 

[scotty21690]

This just had to get bumped up the night I plan to purchase a high end PSA Baseball. :lol:

I am seriously second guessing getting the ball, unfortunately.

I guess the best answer to kj's question is to be educated. Don't buy an autograph without doing a little research first. You wouldn't want to buy a Topps Desert Storm card without first knowing how fake ones are made and how to spot them, the same should be true of autographs.

There we go. Know what you're buying and buy the auto not the slab. If you are buying an auto do your research and make sure it's legit. If you are not 100% confident it's not real then don't buy it, simple as that. Because well, companies do make mistakes, all of them.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

This just had to get bumped up the night I plan to purchase a high end PSA Baseball. :lol:

I am seriously second guessing getting the ball, unfortunately.

I guess the best answer to kj's question is to be educated. Don't buy an autograph without doing a little research first. You wouldn't want to buy a Topps Desert Storm card without first knowing how fake ones are made and how to spot them, the same should be true of autographs.

There we go. Know what you're buying and buy the auto not the slab. If you are buying an auto do your research and make sure it's legit. If you are not 100% confident it's not real then don't buy it, simple as that. Because well, companies do make mistakes, all of them.

+1 Scotty

All of my psa/dna and jsa autos give me some peace of mind because the authenticators at these companies agree with my opinion that something is authentic. I do not rely on their word alone.

 

[bc81758]

just for some background information


who runs that autograph watch dog site?

You got me but all I know is that it's up to Brian whether or not he wants to take legal action against the web site owner.

[email protected], this is their email address.