Jesus Montero traded for Pineda

[thefatguy]

Potential Silver linings if you're a Montero supporter.

He's now a FULL time player in Seattle. He would likely have had around 350-425 AB's in NY even if he was playing very well because the Yanks need the DH spot to rest their aging starters.

In Seattle, the DH was Mike Carp and the C's are Miguel Olivo and John Jaso.

SO he has a better chance to see a FULL season, 550 + at bats.

Hopefully being around fellow Venezulan Star King Felix will be a good thing for him.

Also, AL West pitching is not as strong as AL East pitching. PLus he gets more NL West teams rather than AL East teams in interleague.

........that's all i have so far. Anyone else got something?

In what universe is the AL East pitching better than the AL West pitching?????????

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

There is nothing west of the Missouri river, ******* ::rolls eyes::
Eastern bias is prevalent in all aspects of sports.
Will fielder sign in the west?

 

[Mudcatsfan]

Potential Silver linings if you're a Montero supporter.

He's now a FULL time player in Seattle. He would likely have had around 350-425 AB's in NY even if he was playing very well because the Yanks need the DH spot to rest their aging starters.

In Seattle, the DH was Mike Carp and the C's are Miguel Olivo and John Jaso.

SO he has a better chance to see a FULL season, 550 + at bats.

Hopefully being around fellow Venezulan Star King Felix will be a good thing for him.

Also, AL West pitching is not as strong as AL East pitching. PLus he gets more NL West teams rather than AL East teams in interleague.

........that's all i have so far. Anyone else got something?

In what universe is the AL East pitching better than the AL West pitching?????????

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

I meant in regards to who he's gonna have to face. Obviously you can't count Seattle in that.

Also, You're talking about the past, and you're including Seattle's pitching stats in what Montero would have to face. Not to mention the fact the AL West just lost an entire Staff in Oakland.

2012 AL West pitching will have no Gio Gonzalez, no Brett Anderson (injured), no Trevor Cahill. amd no Andrew Bailey. He does NOT have to face King Felix obviously, nor Pindea. The Angels have very good pitching Getting CJ from the rangers with Haren, Weaver and Santana, and the Rangers have some good pitching, but without CJ its not amazing.

If he was on the Yanks he would have had to face the VERY good staff of the Rays, the VERY well paid staff of the Sox, a VERY good staff in Toronto, and a who-knows young staff in Baltimore.

SO try to understand that i'm not saying the East has better pitching per se, but who he will be facing in 2012, i think i'd rather see that Oakland staff 18 times than anyone in the east 18 times.

 

[MallCopKJ]

The bottom line is...Michael Pineda sucks and Jesus Montero is a beast warrior legend

 

[mwashuc06]

wow seattle got a great deal. montero is the next miggy

Why do you people comp Montero to Miggy, it's not even close. He is the next Billy Butler which isn't bad, but not a star. Miguel Cabrera at age 20 destroyed AA ball in the Carolina League to the tune of .365 .429 .609. He got better as he went up the ladder, Montero may have boomed earlier than Cabrera in the minors but has Stagnated the last two years in AAA. Montero peaked in high A ball and his K-rate has climbed the last two years.

 

[SeattleSports]

Potential Silver linings if you're a Montero supporter.

He's now a FULL time player in Seattle. He would likely have had around 350-425 AB's in NY even if he was playing very well because the Yanks need the DH spot to rest their aging starters.

In Seattle, the DH was Mike Carp and the C's are Miguel Olivo and John Jaso.

SO he has a better chance to see a FULL season, 550 + at bats.

Hopefully being around fellow Venezulan Star King Felix will be a good thing for him.

Also, AL West pitching is not as strong as AL East pitching. PLus he gets more NL West teams rather than AL East teams in interleague.

........that's all i have so far. Anyone else got something?

In what universe is the AL East pitching better than the AL West pitching?????????

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

I meant in regards to who he's gonna have to face. Obviously you can't count Seattle in that.

Also, You're talking about the past, and you're including Seattle's pitching stats in what Montero would have to face. Not to mention the fact the AL West just lost an entire Staff in Oakland.

2012 AL West pitching will have no Gio Gonzalez, no Brett Anderson (injured), no Trevor Cahill. amd no Andrew Bailey. He does NOT have to face King Felix obviously, nor Pindea. The Angels have very good pitching Getting CJ from the rangers with Haren, Weaver and Santana, and the Rangers have some good pitching, but without CJ its not amazing.

If he was on the Yanks he would have had to face the VERY good staff of the Rays, the VERY well paid staff of the Sox, a VERY good staff in Toronto, and a who-knows young staff in Baltimore.

SO try to understand that i'm not saying the East has better pitching per se, but who he will be facing in 2012, i think i'd rather see that Oakland staff 18 times than anyone in the east 18 times.

Seattle was 6th out of that group. However you want to slice it, you're wrong.

What the hell does it matter how well the red sox staff is paid? lol
Toronto was 11th in team ERA out of 14, VERY GOOD indeed!
Baltimore = dead last.

Anything else?/

 

[Wes]

Potential Silver linings if you're a Montero supporter.

He's now a FULL time player in Seattle. He would likely have had around 350-425 AB's in NY even if he was playing very well because the Yanks need the DH spot to rest their aging starters.

In Seattle, the DH was Mike Carp and the C's are Miguel Olivo and John Jaso.

SO he has a better chance to see a FULL season, 550 + at bats.

Hopefully being around fellow Venezulan Star King Felix will be a good thing for him.

Also, AL West pitching is not as strong as AL East pitching. PLus he gets more NL West teams rather than AL East teams in interleague.

........that's all i have so far. Anyone else got something?

In what universe is the AL East pitching better than the AL West pitching?????????

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

The AL East lineups have nothing to do with those high team ERA's? Stop it.

wow seattle got a great deal. montero is the next miggy

Why do you people comp Montero to Miggy, it's not even close. He is the next Billy Butler which isn't bad, but not a star. Miguel Cabrera at age 20 destroyed AA ball in the Carolina League to the tune of .365 .429 .609. He got better as he went up the ladder, Montero may have boomed earlier than Cabrera in the minors but has Stagnated the last two years in AAA. Montero peaked in high A ball and his K-rate has climbed the last two years.

Stop it with the minor league stats. You should know better.

 

[elmalo]

Potential Silver linings if you're a Montero supporter.

He's now a FULL time player in Seattle. He would likely have had around 350-425 AB's in NY even if he was playing very well because the Yanks need the DH spot to rest their aging starters.

In Seattle, the DH was Mike Carp and the C's are Miguel Olivo and John Jaso.

SO he has a better chance to see a FULL season, 550 + at bats.

Hopefully being around fellow Venezulan Star King Felix will be a good thing for him.

Also, AL West pitching is not as strong as AL East pitching. PLus he gets more NL West teams rather than AL East teams in interleague.

........that's all i have so far. Anyone else got something?

In what universe is the AL East pitching better than the AL West pitching?????????

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

The AL East lineups have nothing to do with those high team ERA's? Stop it.

wow seattle got a great deal. montero is the next miggy

Why do you people comp Montero to Miggy, it's not even close. He is the next Billy Butler which isn't bad, but not a star. Miguel Cabrera at age 20 destroyed AA ball in the Carolina League to the tune of .365 .429 .609. He got better as he went up the ladder, Montero may have boomed earlier than Cabrera in the minors but has Stagnated the last two years in AAA. Montero peaked in high A ball and his K-rate has climbed the last two years.

Stop it with the minor league stats. You should know better.

Thanked on both points. Anyone who saw Montero swing the bat last year in the big leagues knows he is gonna be able to hit.

 

[hail2thevictors]

Potential Silver linings if you're a Montero supporter.

He's now a FULL time player in Seattle. He would likely have had around 350-425 AB's in NY even if he was playing very well because the Yanks need the DH spot to rest their aging starters.

In Seattle, the DH was Mike Carp and the C's are Miguel Olivo and John Jaso.

SO he has a better chance to see a FULL season, 550 + at bats.

Hopefully being around fellow Venezulan Star King Felix will be a good thing for him.

Also, AL West pitching is not as strong as AL East pitching. PLus he gets more NL West teams rather than AL East teams in interleague.

........that's all i have so far. Anyone else got something?

In what universe is the AL East pitching better than the AL West pitching?????????

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

The AL East lineups have nothing to do with those high team ERA's? Stop it.

wow seattle got a great deal. montero is the next miggy

Why do you people comp Montero to Miggy, it's not even close. He is the next Billy Butler which isn't bad, but not a star. Miguel Cabrera at age 20 destroyed AA ball in the Carolina League to the tune of .365 .429 .609. He got better as he went up the ladder, Montero may have boomed earlier than Cabrera in the minors but has Stagnated the last two years in AAA. Montero peaked in high A ball and his K-rate has climbed the last two years.

Stop it with the minor league stats. You should know better.

Wes, I would argue that you should know that he doesn't know better. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Montero peaked in High A ball is one of the funniest things I've heard in a while. The kid is what, 22, 23? Wow. ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: :lol: :lol:

 

[bballcardkid]

What I don't understand is why Yankees fans are getting mad Montero got traded. Could Montero be excellent, sure, but at the same time remember all the people who got gaga on Travis Snider and his .300 plus average in September of 2009 and were touting him as the next big thing. Well, look what happened, he regressed and now some are looking at him as a bust even though he will only be 24 this year. Starting pitchers with the upside of Pineda are hard to find and he had a rookie season that was similar to Clayton Kershaw's first year though Kershaw was 20, Kershaw was the best pitching prospect on the planet then. Pineda could be a RH C.C. if he refines his changeup. All Montero was is a 61 AB sample with 17 K's in those AB's, his BABIP in that short time was over .400, if Seattle thinks they are getting another Miguel Cabera/Albert Pujols they are foolish. Those two are the best two hitters of this generation and first ballot hall of famers, Montero is closer to Billy Butler than those two and Butler is a good but not great player.

Funny. During that 61AB 17K stretch, you sure were torn as to whether or not you should buy more of the next Billy Butler.

 

[JoshHamilton]

Stop it with the minor league stats. You should know better.

What the hell does that mean? I'm pretty sure minor league stats are a better comparison indicator than your biased personal opinion.

When Montero puts up a full MLB season comparable to Miguel Cabrera, then start comparing him to Miggy. Until then, it's just wishful thinking and borderline ludicrous

 

[metallicalex777]

I don't see any argument in a good way about why HR's matter with Montero...especially coming to Seattle where we frankly need a bat that can get the batter on base or runners advanced.

 

[vwnut13]

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

Talking of "completely talking out of your ass"...

Here are where the AL East and AL West teams rank for ERA in the AL:

1. Los Angeles
2. Tampa Bay (2nd, not 9th)
3. Oakland
4. New York (4th, not 11th)
5. Texas
6. Seattle
9. Boston (9th, not 14th)
11. Toronto
14. Baltimore Orioles

Now here they are ranked by runs scored:

1. Boston Red Sox
2. New York Yankees
3. Texas Rangers
5. Toronto Blue Jays
7. Baltimore Orioles
8. Tampa Bay
9. Los Angeles
11. Oakland
14. Seattle

Here are the AL East and AL West Run Differentials:

AL East: 3900 RS, 3629 RA (+271)
AL West: 2723 RS, 2664 RA (+59)

With three of the bottom five offenses in the American League you should expect the Division to have pretty good ERAs


Now lets add the Houston Astros just for fun, after all, they will be in the AL West in 2013...

Ranked by ERA

1. Los Angeles
2. Tampa Bay
3. Oakland
4. New York
5. Texas
6. Seattle
9. Boston
11. Toronto
13. Houston
15. Baltimore Orioles

Now here they are ranked by runs scored:

1. Boston Red Sox
2. New York Yankees
3. Texas Rangers
5. Toronto Blue Jays
7. Baltimore Orioles
8. Tampa Bay
9. Los Angeles
11. Oakland
14. Houston
15. Seattle

Here are the AL East and NEW AL West Run Differentials:

AL East: 3900 RS, 3629 RA (+271)
NEW AL West: 3338 RS, 3460 RA (-122)

 

[Wes]

Stop it with the minor league stats. You should know better.

What the hell does that mean? I'm pretty sure minor league stats are a better comparison indicator than your biased personal opinion.

When Montero puts up a full MLB season comparable to Miguel Cabrera, then start comparing him to Miggy. Until then, it's just wishful thinking and borderline ludicrous

What it means is that you cannot effectively compare minor league stats due to factors including age for level, development path, league differences, level of competition and positional difference. Anybody can twist minor league stats, as he has done in his comparison which I replied to. Here's what I mean:

At age 21:

Player A hit .277/.386/.399 in A Ball
Player B hit .337/.431/.663 in AAA

At age 23:

Player C went 16-3 with a 2.21 ERA and 196 strikeouts in 154.2 innings between AA and AAA
Player D went 2-3 with a 5.50 ERA and 38 strikeouts in 73.2 innings at AAA.

Without taking into account the factors that I've listed above, you'd look at these numbers and select Players B and C. Their numbers are superior across the board.

Well congratulations, you've selected Travis Snider and Jeff Francis. The two guys you passed on? Frank Thomas and Roy Halladay. Context is important. So is scouting.

 

[jcmint]

wow seattle got a great deal. montero is the next miggy

Why do you people comp Montero to Miggy, it's not even close. He is the next Billy Butler which isn't bad, but not a star. Miguel Cabrera at age 20 destroyed AA ball in the Carolina League to the tune of .365 .429 .609. He got better as he went up the ladder, Montero may have boomed earlier than Cabrera in the minors but has Stagnated the last two years in AAA. Montero peaked in high A ball and his K-rate has climbed the last two years.

He was generally comped to Miggy by several respected baseball people and for some thats good enough. You like comps maybe some people listen to them too.

 

[jcmint]

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

Talking of "completely talking out of your ass"...

Here are where the AL East and AL West teams rank for ERA in the AL:

1. Los Angeles
2. Tampa Bay (2nd, not 9th)
3. Oakland
4. New York (4th, not 11th)
5. Texas
6. Seattle
9. Boston (9th, not 14th)
11. Toronto
14. Baltimore Orioles

Now here they are ranked by runs scored:

1. Boston Red Sox
2. New York Yankees
3. Texas Rangers
5. Toronto Blue Jays
7. Baltimore Orioles
8. Tampa Bay
9. Los Angeles
11. Oakland
14. Seattle

Here are the AL East and AL West Run Differentials:

AL East: 3900 RS, 3629 RA (+271)
AL West: 2723 RS, 2664 RA (+59)

With three of the bottom five offenses in the American League you should expect the Division to have pretty good ERAs


Now lets add the Houston Astros just for fun, after all, they will be in the AL West in 2013...

Ranked by ERA

1. Los Angeles
2. Tampa Bay
3. Oakland
4. New York
5. Texas
6. Seattle
9. Boston
11. Toronto
13. Houston
15. Baltimore Orioles

Now here they are ranked by runs scored:

1. Boston Red Sox
2. New York Yankees
3. Texas Rangers
5. Toronto Blue Jays
7. Baltimore Orioles
8. Tampa Bay
9. Los Angeles
11. Oakland
14. Houston
15. Seattle

Here are the AL East and NEW AL West Run Differentials:

AL East: 3900 RS, 3629 RA (+271)
NEW AL West: 3338 RS, 3460 RA (-122)

Your best post in a long time nice.

 

[SeattleSports]

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

Talking of "completely talking out of your ass"...

Here are where the AL East and AL West teams rank for ERA in the AL:

1. Los Angeles
2. Tampa Bay (2nd, not 9th)
3. Oakland
4. New York (4th, not 11th)
5. Texas
6. Seattle
9. Boston (9th, not 14th)
11. Toronto
14. Baltimore Orioles

Now here they are ranked by runs scored:

1. Boston Red Sox
2. New York Yankees
3. Texas Rangers
5. Toronto Blue Jays
7. Baltimore Orioles
8. Tampa Bay
9. Los Angeles
11. Oakland
14. Seattle

Here are the AL East and AL West Run Differentials:

AL East: 3900 RS, 3629 RA (+271)
AL West: 2723 RS, 2664 RA (+59)

With three of the bottom five offenses in the American League you should expect the Division to have pretty good ERAs


Now lets add the Houston Astros just for fun, after all, they will be in the AL West in 2013...

Ranked by ERA

1. Los Angeles
2. Tampa Bay
3. Oakland
4. New York
5. Texas
6. Seattle
9. Boston
11. Toronto
13. Houston
15. Baltimore Orioles

Now here they are ranked by runs scored:

1. Boston Red Sox
2. New York Yankees
3. Texas Rangers
5. Toronto Blue Jays
7. Baltimore Orioles
8. Tampa Bay
9. Los Angeles
11. Oakland
14. Houston
15. Seattle

Here are the AL East and NEW AL West Run Differentials:

AL East: 3900 RS, 3629 RA (+271)
NEW AL West: 3338 RS, 3460 RA (-122)

Did you really need to type all of that out? Yes clearly if the AL East has 3 teams in the bottom 5 of team ERA in the AL, they are going to be up there in runs scored. Wouldn't that relationship have to exist?

 

[Mudcatsfan]

I swear, some of you guys just completely talk out of your ass. All 4 AL West teams were in the top 6 overall in team ERA. AL East came in at 9th, 11th and 14th.

Talking of "completely talking out of your ass"...

Here are where the AL East and AL West teams rank for ERA in the AL:

1. Los Angeles
2. Tampa Bay (2nd, not 9th)
3. Oakland
4. New York (4th, not 11th)
5. Texas
6. Seattle
9. Boston (9th, not 14th)
11. Toronto
14. Baltimore Orioles

Now here they are ranked by runs scored:

1. Boston Red Sox
2. New York Yankees
3. Texas Rangers
5. Toronto Blue Jays
7. Baltimore Orioles
8. Tampa Bay
9. Los Angeles
11. Oakland
14. Seattle

Here are the AL East and AL West Run Differentials:

AL East: 3900 RS, 3629 RA (+271)
AL West: 2723 RS, 2664 RA (+59)

With three of the bottom five offenses in the American League you should expect the Division to have pretty good ERAs


Now lets add the Houston Astros just for fun, after all, they will be in the AL West in 2013...

Ranked by ERA

1. Los Angeles
2. Tampa Bay
3. Oakland
4. New York
5. Texas
6. Seattle
9. Boston
11. Toronto
13. Houston
15. Baltimore Orioles

Now here they are ranked by runs scored:

1. Boston Red Sox
2. New York Yankees
3. Texas Rangers
5. Toronto Blue Jays
7. Baltimore Orioles
8. Tampa Bay
9. Los Angeles
11. Oakland
14. Houston
15. Seattle

Here are the AL East and NEW AL West Run Differentials:

AL East: 3900 RS, 3629 RA (+271)
NEW AL West: 3338 RS, 3460 RA (-122)

THANK YOU VWNUT!!!!!!!!!

I couldnt believe Tampa was any worse than top 5 in ERA, 2nd rather than 9th sounds more accurate. I'll even include a link for proof:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/bytea ... l&sort=837

I was trying not to go so far as to insult SeattleSports by telling him HIS team and Oakland are half the reason the AL West ERA's are so low, but that's a great point Wes. Do you think having Boston & NY in the AL East might inflate ERA's in teh AL East?

Where were you getting your stats SeattleSports?

 

[Casebusters]

If Ichiro is on base when Montero is at bat, might make him a better hitter
The Yankees defense and offense can make Pineda a better pitcher!

So it looks like the trade improved both teams

 

[nborton]

Trades like these are never truly known until years later. There's no telling either is going to pan out. How many pitchers have come to NY and died under the pressure? Tons. It takes a different person to play well under the pressure, and media in NY. Some guys have it, others don't. Only time will tell. A.J. Burnett was supposed to save NY, and he caved like many before him. I'm not saying Pineda is skill-wise equal to Burnett, but at one time Burnett was the up and coming young pitcher with potential as well.

In many ways this the classic trade that helps both sides if all goes as projected. However, as we all know it doesn't happen often. Someone will likely walk away years from now looking like they stole this trade. It's impossible to tell at this point.

 

[zach]

What I don't understand is why Yankees fans are getting mad Montero got traded. Could Montero be excellent, sure, but at the same time remember all the people who got gaga on Travis Snider and his .300 plus average in September of 2009 and were touting him as the next big thing. Well, look what happened, he regressed and now some are looking at him as a bust even though he will only be 24 this year. Starting pitchers with the upside of Pineda are hard to find and he had a rookie season that was similar to Clayton Kershaw's first year though Kershaw was 20, Kershaw was the best pitching prospect on the planet then. Pineda could be a RH C.C. if he refines his changeup. All Montero was is a 61 AB sample with 17 K's in those AB's, his BABIP in that short time was over .400, if Seattle thinks they are getting another Miguel Cabera/Albert Pujols they are foolish. Those two are the best two hitters of this generation and first ballot hall of famers, Montero is closer to Billy Butler than those two and Butler is a good but not great player.

I agree. How quickly people forget that Dioner Navarro was going to be a monster for the Yankees too.

Sigh. Montero has so much more ability than Snider or Navarro have.

Different players, same hype.