Leaf Best of Baseball is out!

[Jaypers]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

REALLY? REALLY!!!!!!? I have read this entire post and have to say some of you guys really need to wake up. Topps is the biggest fraud crap company ever. I do not want to hear one person talk about them releasing checklist (even if they do have TBA on them) because most of their checklists are a COMPLETE LIE!!! I busted 5 cases of UFC Series 4 last year based on the checklist and they pulled 18 of the Top fighters without any notice and then tried to LIE for 2 weeks about them still being in the product.
Not one person at Topps or UD knows what the other is doing or what is going on with their products.

Posts like this make me a bit nervous when I think about 2011 Bowman Draft, and how many TBD's are found within their preliminary checklist. Just locked in 5 cases recently, too.

 

[TwinGnats]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

You need to try and understand what I'm saying. I'm not making a judgement on products, how he runs his company, etc. What I am saying is I've seen BG throw a hissy fit multiple times now when someone says something negative about his products. Topps, UD, etc., CEO does not come onto the boards for example to freak out over what you just said about their UFC product.

I just haven't personally liked any of the products though I was planning on opening a pack of metal though. This is the first I've spoken up but its the third time I've seen you post in an unprofessional manner. Maybe all the guys at topps are d-bags but they don't come here to air it out (and they get ripped on a lot).

I don't have any problem with any manufactuer and how they operate, as it will be decided in profit or loss. I just won't be a customer anymore (not that I was the biggest one, so it's not a huge loss).

Rule #1 of Marketing: attempt to ridicule customers in front of large group of potential customers.

I don't hate Leaf as a company, though I do feel they are not a major manufactuer since I've yet to see a quality product from them. I've purchased a few things but more to see what it was when bored at LCS. This has however been the third time I've seen a defensive, angry rant while battling people. This completely turns me off that such a lack of professionalism and I think out of principle I won't purchase any Leaf products for now on. Which is sad because I was actually looking forward to Metal which actually looked good.

p.s.- I love when collectors tell manufacturers they are cheap and lazy. Trust me, one week doing what we do to get deals done and make compelling products, you would be in awe (rather than judgment).

Have you seen our Muhammad Ali or Metal Football products?
Can you honestly say ALI was not a quality product?
BG

REALLY? REALLY!!!!!!? I have read this entire post and have to say some of you guys really need to wake up. Topps is the biggest fraud crap company ever. I do not want to hear one person talk about them releasing checklist (even if they do have TBA on them) because most of their checklists are a COMPLETE LIE!!! I busted 5 cases of UFC Series 4 last year based on the checklist and they pulled 18 of the Top fighters without any notice and then tried to LIE for 2 weeks about them still being in the product.
Not one person at Topps or UD knows what the other is doing or what is going on with their products. Brian at least keeps up with the products and DOES answer questions about them.
Yes I am defending BG because most of the people on here bashing him are not going to buy his product anyway. It is really easy to sit behind your computer and play Sports card company CEO but living it is a little different. Just be careful not to spill your code red mountain dew on your laptop or your Mom might ground you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RANT over

 

[daveyou]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

brian

i really liked that preview/checklist pdf that was generated for us for rookie retro and really hope that something similar would be created if possible. the list of sport, years, grade, players broken down was great

and if this product is similar to the retro, it's gonna do well imho. you can't find retro boxes these days unless you pay a hefty sum. it's around 250+ if it's available, and they are drying up

the extra hit of cut auto seems much better than the tanner schepper's autos :lol:

dave

 

[metallicalex777]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

Hey Brian I personally like any element of surprise with any product especially when getting a great hit of an unsuspected name. With that said...what would be the problem to keep your wants/needs of surprise with releasing this new product for both your/customer satisfaction but also meet the needs of everyone else by creating a checklist to be readily available? You could release without a checklist but also have a "release date" of the full checklist...maybe 2-4 weeks out upon release so that it has a chance to "prove" its value with whatever hits pop up on the market. It is a fact that a product like this is heavier on the resell side. Just my opinion but I think that has a chance to satisfy everyone

EDIT: Just checked your website and it says checklist available after release Still...a "release date" or quick release of any checklist could still be helpful IMO.

 

[coltsnsox07]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

Anyone know what

the Griffey auto is on/from. Interesting looking piece.

 

[coltsnsox07]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

Looks like the first 2 cases were opened by someone, nothing really old but interesting group( just check 2011 Leaf Best on ebay and look at what the guy who has the cuts listed to find the rest of what he got).

 

[matchpenalty]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

Nice added value with BGS cases for those.

 

[JoshHamilton]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

[quote="Leaf":28go6e8f][quote="Boylen33":28go6e8f]I think the price drop is becuase the product blows. You have a very, very good chance of busting a box and not even making half your money back. Here's a good rule of thumb I wish companies would follow: If an individual is still alive, they SHOULD NOT have a cut signature. Half the cut sig checklist is players who are alive and well.

With all respect, how do you or anyone else know if it blows?

There is no checklist.
At this point, only I know what is in the product.

Once you open some (obviously not happening), feel free to come on and share an opinion based in fact rather than speculation.
BG

p.s.- cuts of living people and stickers of living people are the same thing. The only difference is the transparency of the medium.

Hey.

Where are your NPNs, you're like 10 products in, and I haven't seen a single NPN yet all the sales sheets say CHECK THE WEBSITE.

I eagerly await entering these as I've been waiting since the Strasburg Super product.

We hold a limited amount of each product for which we deem an NPN necessary.
These products generally are those with autographs or game used inserted at a random rate (not in every pack).
I will see that my team puts a generic link on the site with NPN info.
BG

There is no limited, there is only equal odds as stated with purchase.

There is no "necessary" there is only a product that relies on chance and products that do not rely on chance.

Please inform me as to the proper request platform for attaining the winners of these contests because that's exactly what I'll be doing.

1> Unfortunately, we do not make available lists of our customer (for obvious competitive reasons).

2> YES there is a limited quantity available of cards for each release... The law, nor any reasonable person, expects any company of making available NPN quantities equal to its print run... That ludicrous and cannot even be taken seriously.... EVERY COMPANY HAS A LIMITED SUPPLY, IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

3> Yes, we believe "necessary" is an element. If you get one presidential cut signature per pack, there is not a CHANCE you will receive one... you will! If we insert 1 auto in every 5 packs, then we send out inserts (in this case, autos) at that rate WHILE SUPPLIES LAST. If you dont agree, send the company that supplies bubble gum machines a NPN request since there is a chance you will get red vs. yellow vs. ????....

4> For the record, we do not in any way concede that the purchase of our many of our products constitute "chance", nor do we consider No Purchase Necessary a "contest".
While we do not feel a legal obligation, we offer this as a program for the sole benefit of those customers who for one reason or another are unable to participate in enjoying a particular release.

BG

p.s.- on a personal note, I believe customers who abuse NPN programs that are offered do so at the detriment of collectors worldwide, as the companies build these costs into what paying collectors pay for products.[/quote:28go6e8f]

Your utter disregard or blatant ignorance of the law is a joke.[/quote:28go6e8f]

You are a ******* and you're blatantly ignorant as to what NPN is. I expected nothing less from you

 

[Boylen33]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

So looking at that guy's auctions on Ebay, the cuts all look the same. So basically, the living players just signed a huge sheet of material in a designated area and then the sheet was "cut" into smaller pieces. Again, the element of surprise is disappointing. I've always thought of a "cut signature" as a signature cut from some, for lack of better terminology, "piece of history", such as a cancelled check, a letter, a jersey, or some other document. At least that's how it was back in the good old days when cut sigs were something special.

Rearrange the letters in LEAF.....not correcty spelled, but for this product, fitting: FALE

 

[coltsnsox07]

Looks like a guy from Alpharetta, Ga. opened about 28 packs?! It's gonna be hard to tell what's from a Baseball's Best or not..

 

[DeliciousBacon]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

So looking at that guy's auctions on Ebay, the cuts all look the same. So basically, the living players just signed a huge sheet of material in a designated area and then the sheet was "cut" into smaller pieces. Again, the element of surprise is disappointing. I've always thought of a "cut signature" as a signature cut from some, for lack of better terminology, "piece of history", such as a cancelled check, a letter, a jersey, or some other document. At least that's how it was back in the good old days when cut sigs were something special.

I'll first add the disclaimer that I am not the target market for this product, so my opinion probably doesn't mean squat. But yeah, I pretty much agree with this entire statement right here. All the HOF cuts are characterless slips of paper, white and boring, with an excitement factor of zero. Yes, it's cool to have a Hank Aaron auto, but of all the things to get it on, a little slip of white paper? I'm sure something more appealing could have been done, maybe some kind of auto'd cut-up jersey, even a replica jersey would look nicer than white paper. I have a hard time accepting purpose-made cuts; cuts are supposed to be documents of dead players who cannot sign anymore, that have real value due to rarity or the document they came from. I understand the economic benefits of doing it this way, but is this really the best option?

 

[cgilmo]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

So looking at that guy's auctions on Ebay, the cuts all look the same. So basically, the living players just signed a huge sheet of material in a designated area and then the sheet was "cut" into smaller pieces. Again, the element of surprise is disappointing. I've always thought of a "cut signature" as a signature cut from some, for lack of better terminology, "piece of history", such as a cancelled check, a letter, a jersey, or some other document. At least that's how it was back in the good old days when cut sigs were something special.

Rearrange the letters in LEAF.....not correcty spelled, but for this product, fitting: FALE

How is that fundamentally different from any sticker product that gets put out?

 

[Lancemountain]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

So looking at that guy's auctions on Ebay, the cuts all look the same. So basically, the living players just signed a huge sheet of material in a designated area and then the sheet was "cut" into smaller pieces.

Looks like it. Looks like they all just signed a piece of material and that is the "cut"

http://cgi.ebay.com/2011-LEAF-BEST-BASE ... 48414fa7d3

The maddox is numbered to 1000

http://cgi.ebay.com/2011-LEAF-BEST-BASE ... 3cba2e5623

Gwynn is numbered to 900


Living players, that actively sign; numbered to 1000. :benson:

 

[Boylen33]

It's not at all different from a sticker auto.

When you say "cut" signature, a normal collector's mind, I would venture to say, would instinctively conjure up an autograph cut from something with meaning....not a pre-fabricated piece of material.

Again, it goes back to making cut signatures of living players. A cut signature should be reserved for a deceased player who, obviously, can no longer sign. The only reason I could see making a cut signature of a living player is if the signature itself has special meaning, such as cut from a contract or something of that nature.

It's simple, really. This product would have had a lot more value, even conceived value, if the cut list were limited to deceased players, and if there would have been a checklist for every card in the product.

The design is awful from what I've seen. The cut signatures, encapsulated or not, are not at all appealing on a black white slip of paper or an odd-shaped piece of plastic (what it looks like).

They may as well just have slabbed sticker autos on a nicely designed card.

Bottom line, what passes for a cut signature today would not come close to equaling the original conception of a cut signature. Of course they are cut signatures, but not an honest representation of the implied definition of a cut signature most of us possess.

 

[Lancemountain]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

So looking at that guy's auctions on Ebay, the cuts all look the same. So basically, the living players just signed a huge sheet of material in a designated area and then the sheet was "cut" into smaller pieces. Again, the element of surprise is disappointing. I've always thought of a "cut signature" as a signature cut from some, for lack of better terminology, "piece of history", such as a cancelled check, a letter, a jersey, or some other document. At least that's how it was back in the good old days when cut sigs were something special.

Rearrange the letters in LEAF.....not correcty spelled, but for this product, fitting: FALE

How is that fundamentally different from any sticker product that gets put out?

Fundamentally speaking, at least the sticker auto is on a card that has the player's picture, a design and MLB branding and team's logos. Save for a few products, these can be pulled out of packs and boxes that are priced for everyone. Even the higher end products (ttt, tribute) there are patches/bat, design to the card.

This is a product that is one card per pack and is $90+ a pack. Imagine pulling a Maddox /1000 that the "cut" is a piece of thick linoleum with no design other than framing the "cut?"

No product that is that expensive should have alive and willing signers numbered to /1000...unless they are real cuts, like a contract, a check...something personal other than a slab of linoleum.

 

[DeliciousBacon]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

So looking at that guy's auctions on Ebay, the cuts all look the same. So basically, the living players just signed a huge sheet of material in a designated area and then the sheet was "cut" into smaller pieces. Again, the element of surprise is disappointing. I've always thought of a "cut signature" as a signature cut from some, for lack of better terminology, "piece of history", such as a cancelled check, a letter, a jersey, or some other document. At least that's how it was back in the good old days when cut sigs were something special.

Rearrange the letters in LEAF.....not correcty spelled, but for this product, fitting: FALE

How is that fundamentally different from any sticker product that gets put out?

I don't recall seeing any sticker auto products that just had a sticker stuck to a plain card with nothing else happening. Even those retina-burning Triple Threads sticker autos give you a dime-sized picture of the player in question, and maybe a jersey swatch if you're lucky. That's why I was thinking at the very least have these guys sign a jersey, even a replica one would be OK (better than plain white paper). A pinstripe or two would greatly increase the visual appeal, even a matting done in team colors. At some point, the need to create an affordable product has to take a backseat to the need to create an attractive one.

 

[cgilmo]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

So looking at that guy's auctions on Ebay, the cuts all look the same. So basically, the living players just signed a huge sheet of material in a designated area and then the sheet was "cut" into smaller pieces. Again, the element of surprise is disappointing. I've always thought of a "cut signature" as a signature cut from some, for lack of better terminology, "piece of history", such as a cancelled check, a letter, a jersey, or some other document. At least that's how it was back in the good old days when cut sigs were something special.

Rearrange the letters in LEAF.....not correcty spelled, but for this product, fitting: FALE

How is that fundamentally different from any sticker product that gets put out?

I don't recall seeing any sticker auto products that just had a sticker stuck to a plain card with nothing else happening. Even those retina-burning Triple Threads sticker autos give you a dime-sized picture of the player in question, and maybe a jersey swatch if you're lucky. That's why I was thinking at the very least have these guys sign a jersey, even a replica one would be OK (better than plain white paper). A pinstripe or two would greatly increase the visual appeal, even a matting done in team colors. At some point, the need to create an affordable product has to take a backseat to the need to create an attractive one.

What if the nature of the licensing landscape makes the pictures impossible? Why do you think cards are so expensive these days? It's because all of this licensing crap has spiraled out of control and is long over due for a correction. That's only gonna happen when people stop ponying up for these contracts.

 

[Lancemountain]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

So looking at that guy's auctions on Ebay, the cuts all look the same. So basically, the living players just signed a huge sheet of material in a designated area and then the sheet was "cut" into smaller pieces. Again, the element of surprise is disappointing. I've always thought of a "cut signature" as a signature cut from some, for lack of better terminology, "piece of history", such as a cancelled check, a letter, a jersey, or some other document. At least that's how it was back in the good old days when cut sigs were something special.

Rearrange the letters in LEAF.....not correcty spelled, but for this product, fitting: FALE

How is that fundamentally different from any sticker product that gets put out?

I don't recall seeing any sticker auto products that just had a sticker stuck to a plain card with nothing else happening. Even those retina-burning Triple Threads sticker autos give you a dime-sized picture of the player in question, and maybe a jersey swatch if you're lucky. That's why I was thinking at the very least have these guys sign a jersey, even a replica one would be OK (better than plain white paper). A pinstripe or two would greatly increase the visual appeal, even a matting done in team colors. At some point, the need to create an affordable product has to take a backseat to the need to create an attractive one.

What if the nature of the licensing landscape makes the pictures impossible? Why do you think cards are so expensive these days? It's because all of this licensing crap has spiraled out of control and is long over due for a correction. That's only gonna happen when people stop ponying up for these contracts.

No one here is going to argue that point as everyone will agree but that is another discussion altogether.

Doing things within his parameter, I think BG generally does a good job. These are signatures on a manufactured slab, cut up, and packaged out as a cut auto....... these are not cut auto's, these are basically sticker autos not on a sticker.

There are ONE THOUSAND Maddox's in the product. Maddox signed 1000 slabs of linoleum or whatever it is. How is that any different than the stickers other than Leaf is calling them "cuts" and charging $90 a pack?

 

[sacto]

as a fan of this forum... and a fan of collecting... this is a tough thread to cut through.

i have never purchased a razor/leaf product... but i find it crazy so many are quick to flame their products. to say the guy isn't trying to make a cool product is silly.

lets just all admit it... monopolies suck... even in baseball cards.

 

[jjj7880]

Product looks awesome Brian! I just wanted to thanks again for the case of Rookie Retro I got when I pulled the 2001 Pujols BC auto. Good luck on this product, I know it will do well!

James