Lee to Phils

[OhioBobcat3]

If I am the Cleveland GM, I cannot move a reigning CY winner without getting a pitching prospect or hitting prospect that has a similar ceiling as the player being moved. Sure, Carrasco could make a nice 3rd or 4th starter. Donald could become a good role player, and Marson could become a serviceable albeit average catcher in the bigs. The only prospect dealt that has truly good upside is Knapp, who is far away and has injury concerns.

If there wasn't a better package out there, I keep Lee.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Agreed 100%.

 

[phillyfan0417]

The only truly interesting prospect they got rid of was Knapp, so this is a definite win for the Phillies. If I was Cleavland I would have asked for either Drabek or Brown to be in the deal.

And it would have been shot down. The Phils clearly weren't dealing Drabek or Brown. The Indians got a nice foursome of decent prospects all with very very nice upside, but maybe less likely to reach their ceiling.

If I am the Cleveland GM, I cannot move a reigning CY winner without getting a pitching prospect or hitting prospect that has a similar ceiling as the player being moved. Sure, Carrasco could make a nice 3rd or 4th starter. Donald could become a good role player, and Marson could become a serviceable albeit average catcher in the bigs. The only prospect dealt that has truly good upside is Knapp, who is far away and has injury concerns.

If there wasn't a better package out there, I keep Lee.

Ok, Carrasco has fallen a bit as a prospect but if his head catches up with his pitches, he's a solid #2. His stuff is not in question, its his head.

 

[MallCopKJ]

I think the Blue Jays hurt the most from this deal. If JP is really being pushed to get something done this doesnt make it any easier from a leverage standpoint. He cant really go back to the Red Sox and say "Look what the Phillies just gave up for Cliff Lee" forcing the Red Sox to up the offer they have apparently already made (whatever offer that may be).

 

[soccerman034]

The only truly interesting prospect they got rid of was Knapp, so this is a definite win for the Phillies. If I was Cleavland I would have asked for either Drabek or Brown to be in the deal.

And it would have been shot down. The Phils clearly weren't dealing Drabek or Brown. The Indians got a nice foursome of decent prospects all with very very nice upside, but maybe less likely to reach their ceiling.

If I am the Cleveland GM, I cannot move a reigning CY winner without getting a pitching prospect or hitting prospect that has a similar ceiling as the player being moved. Sure, Carrasco could make a nice 3rd or 4th starter. Donald could become a good role player, and Marson could become a serviceable albeit average catcher in the bigs. The only prospect dealt that has truly good upside is Knapp, who is far away and has injury concerns.

If there wasn't a better package out there, I keep Lee.

Ok, Carrasco has fallen a bit as a prospect but if his head catches up with his pitches, he's a solid #2. His stuff is not in question, its his head.

I would say his ceiling is as a #2, but a reasonable prediction would be a mid to back of the rotation type of starter. He has been very average in AAA this year.

 

[phillyfan0417]

The only truly interesting prospect they got rid of was Knapp, so this is a definite win for the Phillies. If I was Cleavland I would have asked for either Drabek or Brown to be in the deal.

And it would have been shot down. The Phils clearly weren't dealing Drabek or Brown. The Indians got a nice foursome of decent prospects all with very very nice upside, but maybe less likely to reach their ceiling.

If I am the Cleveland GM, I cannot move a reigning CY winner without getting a pitching prospect or hitting prospect that has a similar ceiling as the player being moved. Sure, Carrasco could make a nice 3rd or 4th starter. Donald could become a good role player, and Marson could become a serviceable albeit average catcher in the bigs. The only prospect dealt that has truly good upside is Knapp, who is far away and has injury concerns.

If there wasn't a better package out there, I keep Lee.

Ok, Carrasco has fallen a bit as a prospect but if his head catches up with his pitches, he's a solid #2. His stuff is not in question, its his head.

I would say his ceiling is as a #2, but a reasonable prediction would be a mid to back of the rotation type of starter. He has been very average in AAA this year.

Thats not a bad ceiling...

 

[jbone17]

I think the Blue Jays hurt the most from this deal. If JP is really being pushed to get something done this doesnt make it any easier from a leverage standpoint. He cant really go back to the Red Sox and say "Look what the Phillies just gave up for Cliff Lee" forcing the Red Sox to up the offer they have apparently already made (whatever offer that may be).

Very true. It will be tough to move Roy now because I thought Philly was his original destination. The Phils cannot hand anymore prospects the Blue Jays way because they will have no minor league system left lol.

 

[ryanhoward06]

all I can say is NOOOO!

Knapp is going to be a complete stud and I am terribly saddened if this is true. Going to every Lakewood game and having the pleasure to meet Jason and talk with him a LOT it is sad he is going to have to now leave home, being a Jersey kid.

This is heart breaking, I would rather have honestly traded Drabek and gotten Halladay.

I like Knapp a lot, but he is a major risk. Most scouts see him as a bullpen arm as very few guys develop secondary pitches, which he hasn't.

[quote="Baseball America":2ngrmnrq]When (scouting director) Marti Wolever and his staff drafted him, he was a big, strong, raw-boned kid whose velocity really stood out," Lamar said. "We thought he might be a future closer because he was so big and strong and had that great arm.

"But the minute he got to the (Rookie-level) Gulf Coast League and began working with (minor league pitching coordinator) Gorman Heimueller and his staff, he started showing a better feel for his curveball and changeup.

"He has improved so much with those pitches and made such strides with his pitch-ability that watching him now, there's no question we have a potential starter on our hands."[/url]

[/quote:2ngrmnrq]

Yea I know he has improved, but still he's not a blue chip starter. I like him a lot because of his fastball and his ability to learn new pitches, but there is just such a risk.

I am actually starting to like Trevor May more. He might not have ace potential, but the chances of him being a 2/3 are much greater.

 

[Quenepa22]

I, too like this trade (for obvious reasons)!

But, would the Phils still pull off a trade for Halladay, solidifying their chances at another championship?!

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Could offer Happ/Taylor/D'Arnaud to Toronto and see what happens.

I understand that JP was offered the same four plus Happ for Halladay and didn't take it.

I'm facebook friends with Knapp. Gotta log on and see how he's taking the news.

I spoke with Dominic Brown this morning before the trade went down; asked if he thought he was going to be in Dunedin next week - he said that "I ain't going nowhere".

Guess he was right.

I like the trade. I'll miss sweet Lou, but I like the trade.

 

[Brett Keith]

all I can say is NOOOO!

Knapp is going to be a complete stud and I am terribly saddened if this is true. Going to every Lakewood game and having the pleasure to meet Jason and talk with him a LOT it is sad he is going to have to now leave home, being a Jersey kid.

This is heart breaking, I would rather have honestly traded Drabek and gotten Halladay.

I like Knapp a lot, but he is a major risk. Most scouts see him as a bullpen arm as very few guys develop secondary pitches, which he hasn't.

[quote="Baseball America":2rmt3zdq]When (scouting director) Marti Wolever and his staff drafted him, he was a big, strong, raw-boned kid whose velocity really stood out," Lamar said. "We thought he might be a future closer because he was so big and strong and had that great arm.

"But the minute he got to the (Rookie-level) Gulf Coast League and began working with (minor league pitching coordinator) Gorman Heimueller and his staff, he started showing a better feel for his curveball and changeup.

"He has improved so much with those pitches and made such strides with his pitch-ability that watching him now, there's no question we have a potential starter on our hands."[/url]

Yea I know he has improved, but still he's not a blue chip starter. I like him a lot because of his fastball and his ability to learn new pitches, but there is just such a risk.

I am actually starting to like Trevor May more. He might not have ace potential, but the chances of him being a 2/3 are much greater.[/quote:2rmt3zdq]

Is there really any more risk with him than another teenage power pitcher? It's not like he's small or has some painful looking delivery. I'd say he may be less of a risk than many other pitchers, because he's got that big, strong frame and looks fairly athletic. It's just a matter of getting him under control, I think.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

BTW Knapp doesn't have "injury problems". He was hidden on the DL to avoid placing him into a trade for Halladay. It worked, as it increased his perceived value ("if they're gonna hide this guy from Toronto, we want him!") and got us a freaking Cy Young winner for not a tremendous cost.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

From ESPN's Jim Callis -- sums it up perfectly.

Drabek's fastball and curveball give him the potential to be a frontline starter. But it's not like it was a done deal if they included Drabek. Look at it as the Phillies had an option of a) Lee, Drabek, Happ, Brown/Taylor or b) Halladay, Carrasco, Marson, Donald. I'd do just what the Phillies did.

 

[leatherman]

I haven't read any of this thread, but I wanted to weigh in on my opinions on this trade.

First of all, if you are a Phillies fan, you have to be ecstatic. You got your front of the staff starter you needed (in case you were wondering, he is 1-0 with a 2.48 ERA in 4 starts vs the NL this year). You didn't give up Happ or Drabek. When all is said and done, it will be up to Lou Marson to determine the overall value of the trade, and catching prospects are pretty tough to project. Is Halladay a better pitcher than Lee? Probably. But you still have Happ for this year, and Drabek for your future.

Hamels and Lee in a postseason series? They would match up well with Lincecum and Cain. And with Blanton's consistency and Moyer to throw in as well, I think they are a serious contender to repeat. Their lineup is dangerous, but they haven't been hitting. If they start hitting, I can't see any team beating them.


David

 

[wolfmanalfredo]

Phils pick up Lee & Fransisco from Tribe

Sorry if its been posted, didn't see it if it was:


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... p&c_id=mlb

PHOENIX -- The Phillies got their Cy Young winner.

After making a run at landing Blue Jays ace right-hander Roy Halladay before Friday's Trade Deadline, the Phillies instead made a deal with Cleveland for 2008 AL Cy Young winner Cliff Lee. Sources told MLB.com that the Phillies and Indians have reached an agreement that would send Lee, a left-hander, and outfielder Ben Francisco to the Phillies for prospects Jason Knapp, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson.


Pending a physical of course

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Re: Phils pick up Lee & Fransisco from Tribe

great trade for the Indians

 

[Pine Tar]

Re: Phils pick up Lee & Fransisco from Tribe

Yeah I just saw this on MLB.com man that is a good deal for Indians LOL

 

[numba1yankeefan]

Re: Phils pick up Lee & Fransisco from Tribe

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54762

 

[gt2590]

I'm going to have beg off grading this trade, because I love Knapp's upside. I think he definitely could be a solid #2 or great #3 down the road.

I think the Phils are a little better off, since most of the guys they traded wouldn't have played this year, and maybe not next year. Who knows how long past the 2 or 3 next years the core of the major league team will all be intact or stay healthy.

Overall, this is one of those trades that works for both teams. Short-term, which is what it's all about for winning the Series, though, edge to Phillies. Go Lee!

 

[gt2590]

Question. What affect will this trade have on the 4 prospects' cards? Up or down?

Complete freefall, in my opinion. They may be (alot) closer to the show, but prices are usually determined by perception, market and exposure all of which will dry up very soon. The Knapp prices especially since he's the furtherest away from the big team.

BTW, I am interested to hear what Gammons thinks of this deal. I know he was a big fan of both Donald and Knapp.

 

[AKA Coastal]

Question. What affect will this trade have on the 4 prospects' cards? Up or down?

Complete freefall, in my opinion. They may be (alot) closer to the show, but prices are usually determined by perception, market and exposure all of which will dry up very soon. The Knapp prices especially since he's the furtherest away from the big team.

BTW, I am interested to hear what Gammons thinks of this deal. I know he was a big fan of both Donald and Knapp.

Indians prospects sell pretty good. Atleast they didn't get traded to the Pirates.