More mama_bear** discussion...

[Mr.Whipple]

Since I am clueless on this, I won't post on this subject after this.

SO I was wrong with what he was doing. Hope everyone forgives me for it.

A man of his word.

I said, mama bear was short selling as one of my beliefs. He is also doing a few things I predicted.

 

[SeattleSports]

I said, mama bear was short selling as one of my beliefs. He is also doing a few things I predicted.

Has anyone on this site ever been in a store like Marshalls, TJ Maxx, Odd Lots or similar discount chain? Ever see wal mart sell a christmas tree for 20 bucks that retailed for 75? mama bear is doing something every major retailer does on a daily basis. Eliminating stock and creating cash flow, By selling at or below cost. I imagine the flordia info was put to throw off manufactors also. Like i said before, Its probably a large wholesaler selling off case that were returned or not paid for by a customer. They have to sell so much to keep the ability to order the same if not more the next year. They also have the ability to write the loss off on their taxes, They really are not losing a dime in the end. Maybe its part of their company and they use it for shifting losses, Thats not an uncommon thing also. Company I work for has 12 companies operated out of one office, Its a very common practice.

You were convinced it was a wholesaler 'dumping product to escape the wrath of the topps and co'.

It is still essentially a ponzi scheme. If Bowman Sterling doesn't fail, the house of cards will fall.

 

[Sportsnutcards]

I have read every post in this thread as well as the other threads in the past month or two regarding this seller, and haven't said much cuz it was gonna take me forever to compose my thoughts and put them into a reply.
But I feel I am doing everyone a disservice by not giving my insight. This may get a bit lengthy but I believe it's worth the read.

1.Mama_bear isn't a woman at all, his name is Mark. I have had several lengthy phone conversations with him dating back to November of 2010.

2. My first transaction with him was for 4 cases of 2010 Bowman Chrome that I prebought from him in October at $700 per when they were still selling for about $750-825 per

3. My first verbal conversation with him was about when I could expect delivery on the cases (I knew they were falling in price and wanted them ASAP to rip and flip to get out from under them at that price). I asked him for his zip code so I could run a rate from my business's UPS account to see what the different shipping rates would cost to get them in. He told me then that he did not have my cases in yet, but he could have them drop shipped from Arizona. (So I never did get his address.) Upon hearing this I asked him directly if it was a specific seller named "X" that he purchased these from. He informed me it was from seller "X" and apologized to me about the delay in the shipment and ate an additional $40 to help get them to me quicker. I then called seller "X" in Arizona to verify that he was drop shipping them for Mark. I had these conversations on the day Bowman Chrome hobby went live.

4. I know for a fact that Mark made money on the specific transaction mentioned above b/c I also prepurchased 1/2 dozen cases from seller "X"at near factory cost about 1 month before actual live date.

5. A more recent conversation before Christmas with Mark I had revealed to me that he never stocks the goods and they are always drop shipped. He also said that he adjusted his quoted lead time on auctions to account for his drop shipping.
I asked him flatly if he is selling these cases short. The reply I got was "YES that's exactly what I am doing".
He then gave me some examples of how he made out (thousands in the case of the chrome products) and some examples of where he lost a bit. Now it's quite obvious to all of us that a small fortune was to be made by shorting Chrome and Bowman chrome this year. But some of the other products aren't as obvious to me. He also did disclose to me as it seems he has to others that he is banking on the fact that all of these products are hitting right after another and hardly anything is sustaining it's price, therefore when dealers are getting jammed up and needing "cash flow" he is buying up what they need to move immediately and giving them their needed "cash flow".

6. I can also speak in regards to the direct cost compared to the retail price. The examples of high margins that many people are arbitrarily throwing out there in this thread are completely in line with most business structures (cost = roughly 40-60% on average, I own a small business specializing in home fashions products and can attest to this). But they are not even close for this industry.
Most distributors will presell to verified dealers at roughly 5-10% markup over cost. The main benefit to the dealer is that do not have to buy direct and lay out their own money enabling them to keep cash flow healthy until the product actually releases, only then do they have to pay the distributor. With the understanding if you want to keep your credit lines open and healthy with the distributor you need to pay for the items no matter how badly they've tanked or you will not be permitted to order subsequent products. Thus in some cases contributing to the to dealers who need to "dump goods" to create "cash flow" for their business.
This example of how it works purchasing from a distributor is very different from one of us purchasing from D&A or Blowout with our $100 or $200 per case deposit. These guys are large retailers that do operate on higher margins. There you can in theory walk away from the purchase and you are out the deposit $$ and they will resell the item they ordered for you to someone else.

7. Pay pal and Ebay.
During a conversation (beginning of December)with Mark I told him that there is chatter about him and people are very skeptical about his selling practices. He told me he was aware of it and that Ebay and Paypal shut him down and froze his account right before Thanksgiving for awhile and would not reinstate it unless he was able to show a trail of purchases for the goods he was selling on Ebay. (I don't remember if any of you remember his auctions in early December stating "My Black Friday sales start now." I am assuming this had something to do with him being shut down for a bit while they made him verify things.

As a side note upon my inquiries regarding a purchase I made and had no recourse to get my money back (from a completely unrelated seller PACANE69 was the seller AVOID him very shady). An Ebay representative informed me that it is against EBAY policy for someone to presell an item that can not be filled within 30 days of the auction ending date.
Just thought that was an interesting tidbit.

I am not condoning people buying from him specifically here, I agree that selling $600 or roughly 30% below cost for this product is selling way short (my personal opinion is that it isn't going to be a strong product at all anyway ,and will end up below cost aside). I just wanted to share this info with everyone, I'm not sure what to take from all of the info myself.
But even if someone is honestly shorting things they must be careful to not get caught with their pants down. (I'm pretty sure the SEC even banned it for a bit within the past couple years during the crazy instability of the stock market.)

Sorry, but this does not add up. When you shorting wax you still want to presell as high as you can and then hope the market falls after the product releases and then deliver after that drop. What is the reason the presellls are way below cost? So you would need the product to go way way below cost to make money?

 

[ChasHawk]

^^ exactly.

Still does not makes sense at all when he could move them just as easily for $1,400-1,600

 

[Wes]

^^ exactly.

Still does not makes sense at all when he could move them just as easily for $1,400-1,600

Many of these were run as auctions - the market is taking some ownership of the pricing.

 

[SeattleSports]

^^ exactly.

Still does not makes sense at all when he could move them just as easily for $1,400-1,600

Many of these were run as auctions - the market is taking some ownership of the pricing.

No. The auctions have gone for MORE than the original listings which were all BUY IT NOWS.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2010-Bowman-Sterlin ... 815wt_1139

They were originally all for BIN's at $1050, about $600 below direct cost. And then after a while, they started doing auctions. Like I said, if this product doesn't massively tank, then its going to get very interesting.

 

[cgilmo]

Those of you who bought sterling from them and actually get it be glad. I popped a couple boxes and it's been the most fun baseball rip I've had all year. Tons of color for two boxes.

 

[hoopster3977]

Those of you who bought sterling from them and actually get it be glad. I popped a couple boxes and it's been the most fun baseball rip I've had all year. Tons of color for two boxes.

Can you release anymore information on your Sterling break? Like an updated checklist?

 

[Mr.Whipple]

I said, mama bear was short selling as one of my beliefs. He is also doing a few things I predicted.

Has anyone on this site ever been in a store like Marshalls, TJ Maxx, Odd Lots or similar discount chain? Ever see wal mart sell a christmas tree for 20 bucks that retailed for 75? mama bear is doing something every major retailer does on a daily basis. Eliminating stock and creating cash flow, By selling at or below cost. I imagine the flordia info was put to throw off manufactors also. Like i said before, Its probably a large wholesaler selling off case that were returned or not paid for by a customer. They have to sell so much to keep the ability to order the same if not more the next year. They also have the ability to write the loss off on their taxes, They really are not losing a dime in the end. Maybe its part of their company and they use it for shifting losses, Thats not an uncommon thing also. Company I work for has 12 companies operated out of one office, Its a very common practice.

You were convinced it was a wholesaler 'dumping product to escape the wrath of the topps and co'.

It is still essentially a ponzi scheme. If Bowman Sterling doesn't fail, the house of cards will fall.

I said it was still one and has to have another account pumping cash in, Even posted an ebay account selling cases and singles with similar scans and item descpriptions. The other account is about 10 minutes from mama bear, Probably the partner. He was selling contenders football about 500-600 less a case than everyone else.

I posted a couple theories and one was a guy short selling, but buying cancelled cases and such. And making 20-45 a case profit and him being happy with that. I dont follow case prices, If Sterling stay high. Its all on him and he will most likely vanish. I even called that ebay and paypal without a doubt invesitgated him and he had to prove buying the product to sell as a presell.

 

[jbhofmann]

I said, mama bear was short selling as one of my beliefs. He is also doing a few things I predicted.

Has anyone on this site ever been in a store like Marshalls, TJ Maxx, Odd Lots or similar discount chain? Ever see wal mart sell a christmas tree for 20 bucks that retailed for 75? mama bear is doing something every major retailer does on a daily basis. Eliminating stock and creating cash flow, By selling at or below cost. I imagine the flordia info was put to throw off manufactors also. Like i said before, Its probably a large wholesaler selling off case that were returned or not paid for by a customer. They have to sell so much to keep the ability to order the same if not more the next year. They also have the ability to write the loss off on their taxes, They really are not losing a dime in the end. Maybe its part of their company and they use it for shifting losses, Thats not an uncommon thing also. Company I work for has 12 companies operated out of one office, Its a very common practice.

You were convinced it was a wholesaler 'dumping product to escape the wrath of the topps and co'.

It is still essentially a ponzi scheme. If Bowman Sterling doesn't fail, the house of cards will fall.

I said it was still one and has to have another account pumping cash in, Even posted an ebay account selling cases and singles with similar scans and item descpriptions. The other account is about 10 minutes from mama bear, Probably the partner. He was selling contenders football about 500-600 less a case than everyone else.

I posted a couple theories and one was a guy short selling, but buying cancelled cases and such. And making 20-45 a case profit and him being happy with that. I dont follow case prices, If Sterling stay high. Its all on him and he will most likely vanish. I even called that ebay and paypal without a doubt invesitgated him and he had to prove buying the product to sell as a presell.

 

[coltsnsox07]

I like mama bears' Tops Sterling prices, a 5 box case for $799 and a 10 for $1499.00 Looks like one guy(mostgood1)bought a 10 box case and got a Heyward bat barrel auto.

 

[danimal]

Has anyone who ordered bowman sterling been notified it shipped? If this seller was shorting the product they have to be hurting with price going up rather than down.

 

[Messier2]

Has anyone who ordered bowman sterling been notified it shipped? If this seller was shorting the product they have to be hurting with price going up rather than down.

These guys usually ship 1 to 2 weeks after release. So, don't expect them until Feb.

 

[bmc398]

The house of cards WILL fall soon. This stuff is up $100+ a case....and was never going to go down $600 below cost.

 

[SeattleSports]

The house of cards WILL fall soon. This stuff is up $100+ a case....and was never going to go down $600 below cost.

Exactly as I said. If Bowman Sterling doesn't fail, the house of cards will fall.

I think its REALLY interesting that yesterday when the product was going up, they listed 3 (8 box case lot) for $3300 BIN's and they were all hit instantly which is $1100 per case when they're going over $1800 right now.

 

[crowTrobot]

I think its REALLY interesting that yesterday when the product was going up, they listed 3 (8 box case lot) for $3300 BIN's and they were all hit instantly which is $1100 per case when they're going over $1800 right now.

probably last second money grab before declaring bankruptcy, like larry rosselli

 

[danimal]

The house of cards WILL fall soon. This stuff is up $100+ a case....and was never going to go down $600 below cost.

Exactly as I said. If Bowman Sterling doesn't fail, the house of cards will fall.

I think its REALLY interesting that yesterday when the product was going up, they listed 3 (8 box case lot) for $3300 BIN's and they were all hit instantly which is $1100 per case when they're going over $1800 right now.

They have to raise some additional money to pay for those earlier case sales!

 

[bmc398]

The house of cards WILL fall soon. This stuff is up $100+ a case....and was never going to go down $600 below cost.

Exactly as I said. If Bowman Sterling doesn't fail, the house of cards will fall.

I think its REALLY interesting that yesterday when the product was going up, they listed 3 (8 box case lot) for $3300 BIN's and they were all hit instantly which is $1100 per case when they're going over $1800 right now.

They have to raise some additional money to pay for those earlier case sales!

No guys! This is legit!!!!

They are just dumping inventory to avoid the wrath of Topps! lol

 

[bowmanchromeandorr]

Money-laundering.

Seems easy enough of an explanation. Plus they can easily offset other gains by losses posted within this structure.

no way around the new 1099 form, as they are doing over 200 transactions and easily over 20k

All that means is that they have to pay taxes on what they sell. The "dirty money" is the money they would be buying the cases with from the dealer. There wouldn't be any record of where it came from if they paid in cash or used a credit card. If you make the money trail long enough, the harder it will be to catch up to. Will they get caught....sure, at some point. But, the longer you prolong it, the longer you can live the high life on all this floating cash.

if you are laundering money you can still file it all on a 1099 since it has been laundered. the feds will think it came from selling bb cards. remember federal gov co. is only as smart as the idiots they hire.

 

[hoopster3977]

I think its REALLY interesting that yesterday when the product was going up, they listed 3 (8 box case lot) for $3300 BIN's and they were all hit instantly which is $1100 per case when they're going over $1800 right now.

probably last second money grab before declaring bankruptcy, like larry rosselli

What ever happened to Larry Roselli? I almost got burned by this guy, lucky I got my money back from PayPal for a case of Exquisite Basketball. Rumor had it that he had over 6 figures in sales he ran off with.

Edit:
This is the reason that I decided not to buy any products from Mamma-Bear.