Muhammad Ali Info - REAL CHECKLIST AND INFO

[Adamsince1981]

"I would like to cancel my pre-order for Ali by Leaf. I was told there would no stickergraphs and that the BJ redemption would be for Brooklyn Decker, not Jennifer Aniston; she is too old!"

 

[Lancemountain]

Ty Hope wrote:Lancemountain wrote:Quote:Brian, I'm not sure how the hell you do it. No matter what you do, people bitch and moan.


I think putting sticker autos of completly random people that have 0% to do with Ali is a legitamate beef, no?

Probably should have taken it on the chin on this one and reduced production instead of reducing quality. This is leaf's first, real chance to make an impact. Sticker autos of hogans heros isn't that.

I have a box coming, so holding out hope the product is still great.

This pretty much sums it up. Its just so obvious that the stickers chosen were remaining ones dug up from previous products. To the buyer, that comes across as a cheap, easy way out. I don't mean to sound negative, but that is how I (and clearly many others) feel. People want signers that signed FOR A PRODUCT, not a jumbled mess. Its like putting crappy tires on an Lamborghini simply because they were what was readily available. Sure they'll get the car rolling, but they stick out like a sore thumb.

He could pack it out with a redemption for a bj from Jennifer Anniston and someone would complain that she's old. I'm not saying Brian is a perfect guy. I think he's learning a little each product and doing the best he can. It's possible to be constructive w/ criticisms. So many people fail to remember that.

I was giving constructive critism I thought. Reduce the product, make less on the short term and install trust and make alot on the long term.

 

[ryanscardz]

Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone in this thread; I just want to say that I have always enjoyed Leaf and Razor products. I've made alot of money on some and lost alot of money on some and most importantly added some sweet cards to the PC. Mr. Gray I am looking forward to meeting you in Vegas in a little over 2 weeks. Thanks for giving us another shot at an on card Ali auto in the near future!!! :grouphug:

 

[ChasHawk]

My favorite is always the people bitching and complaining about the bitching and complaining.

yes, I know what I just did

 

[Adamsince1981]

My favorite is always the people bitching and complaining about the bitching and complaining.

yes, I know what I just did

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired...

My post a few posts above was my first in any of these lengthy (I understand you weren't directing this at me) Ali/Leaf threads.

Sadly, I appreciate Topps more. They offer 0 info on FCB and do a terrible job through and through and still the lemmings buy and buy. Hell, they add a sparkle to cheap-ass Topps cards and there is nothing but positive posts and threads. They must have the greatest sales and marketing team ever.

Rule #1 - Over Promise and Under Deliver!

Leaf slightly over promised and may or may not have under delivered and we've had 4 threads and posts after post of pick, pick, pick....
:shock:

 

[Ty Hope]

We all know everyone would have preferred to have all on card and original people in it. But like any product not everything goes as planned. If he would have put redemptions, people would still bitch and moan. If he cut back and people got screwed out of product, they would have ******* and moaned. Already this stuff is delayed over a month waiting for autos to come in. A lot of cash is tied up in this product from ALi on down. Or price got jacked up, people would still bitch and moan. It needed to be released. Has a bunch of sweet cards in it, he showed the boxing shorts he used and where got them from in another thread when it first was announced. No one gives detail like that. Gave print runs on autos, as well. Yes, we could all set and bitch till end of time that a whopping two original autos got replaced with some sticker autos. Even some big names stickers. My guess is over 90% OF AUTOS ARE ON CARD! maybe BG will ball park it for us.

I get your points, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. I for one think that the addition of random sticker autos was the wrong way to handle this situation. But that is just my opinion. Cards had to be created and printed out for these new sticker autos, right? It would have taken the same amount of time to print more relevant autos. And I really do think there are tons of former boxers sitting on there ass scrounging for any money they can get that would sign in a heartbeat. It doesn't matter though, BG and his company made their choice so its useless to discuss this anymore.

And where did you see print runs for autos? Did I miss them somewhere?

In the future though, I really do suggest that Leaf no longer make promises like 100% on-card. There is always the chance that things like this could happen and people feel cheated. I would also strongly suggest NOT hyping a product at all until you are completely sure of who you can get. Same could be said for Topps, but we already know they don't care.

Hopefully this will be my last post on this issue. If BG could provide definitive print runs it would be greatly appreciated. I know he doesn't have too and Topps never does, etc. etc. It would set a lot of upset customer's minds at ease though.

 

[gt2590]

I'd just like to hear some interesting stories about getting the on-card autos done, especially if they were done IP with the Leaf/Razor reps present and not just send-backs.

Is this kind of info anywhere? Maybe a blog on the home page, etc.?

Just wondering...

 

[AKA Coastal]

Brian, I'm not sure how the hell you do it. No matter what you do, people bitch and moan.

I think putting sticker autos of completly random people that have 0% to do with Ali is a legitamate beef, no?

Probably should have taken it on the chin on this one and reduced production instead of reducing quality. This is leaf's first, real chance to make an impact. Sticker autos of hogans heros isn't that.

I have a box coming, so holding out hope the product is still great.

This pretty much sums it up. Its just so obvious that the stickers chosen were remaining ones dug up from previous products. To the buyer, that comes across as a cheap, easy way out. I don't mean to sound negative, but that is how I (and clearly many others) feel. People want signers that signed FOR A PRODUCT, not a jumbled mess. Its like putting crappy tires on an Lamborghini simply because they were what was readily available. Sure they'll get the car rolling, but they stick out like a sore thumb.

He could pack it out with a redemption for a bj from Jennifer Anniston and someone would complain that she's old. I'm not saying Brian is a perfect guy. I think he's learning a little each product and doing the best he can. It's possible to be constructive w/ criticisms. So many people fail to remember that.

How about a dual Brooklyn Decker/Jennifer Anniston..

PS: That's one of the funniest things I've read in awhile.

 

[Ty Hope]

I'd just like to hear some interesting stories about getting the on-card autos done, especially if they were done IP with the Leaf/Razor reps present and not just send-backs.

Is this kind of info anywhere? Maybe a blog on the home page, etc.?

Just wondering...

I believe he witnessed the Ali signing. Not sure about any of the others.

 

[Leaf]

Just logged on (Saturday afternoon here) and this thread sure grew. :lol:

It's awesome that we finally have a full checklist. Very cool of BG to do that.

I guess the only other concern I have would be print runs, but I doubt we'll see them until after release. Not sure why though if everything is sold out.

Some of the sticker names are really poor too. Bruce Jenner for example has been in a ton of various products and really has no business being in this one. Oh well, every product has to have its supply of $hit. The sticker auto names just seem to take away from the Ali theme more than anything else. Don't think anyone can really argue that.

Now that there are only two fighters who haven't signed and there are 12 sticker signers to replace them, is it safe to say that those two combined were to have signed 6X the amount of each sticker person? Seems like a ton.

I guess the answer is yes, these 12 autos will be far less plentiful than the 2 lost fighters.
But remember, each lost fighter had 2 different autos. BG

 

[Ty Hope]

I'm officially out of this one. Canceled my boxes. I wish everyone still in good luck. Look forward to seeing the breaks.

 

[Leaf]

BG, what if you were to put in mystery redemptions for "former boxing champions"?

There are tons of them out there and I would have a hard time believing that a handful wouldn't agree to sign in a short time frame for an Ali product. It would continue with the boxing theme, they would be on-card, and most ripping this product would much rather have one than the random names picked for the "fans."

Probably too late now, but this IMO would have been a better way to go than digging through the sticker stockroom.

Trust me... we spent lots of time struggling with what to do.
These are going to fall 3 per case. This should not be a massive distraction from the theme.
Especially in light of the fact that all have either publically declared their fandom or are associated with ALI through works (google Tiegs, Borgnine, Gossett JR. for example)...
This was certainly not random checklisting. Thought went into this.

As far as redemptions, that sounds great and all. But when we spend a similar budget to go get champions, you would get 3-4 of the worst champions to ever hold a belt. Plus, when people got the redemptions, they would have unrealistic expectations that would result in disapppointment.
NO WIN!
BG

 

[Leaf]

I'd just like to hear some interesting stories about getting the on-card autos done, especially if they were done IP with the Leaf/Razor reps present and not just send-backs.

Is this kind of info anywhere? Maybe a blog on the home page, etc.?

Just wondering...

I believe he witnessed the Ali signing. Not sure about any of the others.

Getting Ali in Scottsdale was one of the saddeest days of my life. Seeing ALI like that killed me. As a huge fan, I can see first hand one of my heroes mortality and its sinking in he wont be here forever. I actually cried. I guess that makes me a wuss. BG

 

[Ty Hope]

BG, what if you were to put in mystery redemptions for "former boxing champions"?

There are tons of them out there and I would have a hard time believing that a handful wouldn't agree to sign in a short time frame for an Ali product. It would continue with the boxing theme, they would be on-card, and most ripping this product would much rather have one than the random names picked for the "fans."

Probably too late now, but this IMO would have been a better way to go than digging through the sticker stockroom.

Trust me... we spent lots of time struggling with what to do.
These are going to fall 3 per case. This should not be a massive distraction from the theme.
Especially in light of the fact that all have either publically declared their fandom or are associated with ALI through works (google Tiegs, Borgnine, Gossett JR. for example)...
This was certainly not random checklisting. Thought went into this.

As far as redemptions, that sounds great and all. But when we spend a similar budget to go get champions, you would get 3-4 of the worst champions to ever hold a belt. Plus, when people got the redemptions, they would have unrealistic expectations that would result in disapppointment.

NO WIN!
BG

I guess it's just unfortunate that any of this had to happen at all, but that's how it goes sometimes. You, all of Leaf, the customer... no one was happy over any of this. I'm sure it will be a hit though and look forward to watching youtube breaks.

 

[Leaf]

I'm officially out of this one. Canceled my boxes. I wish everyone still in good luck. Look forward to seeing the breaks.

I am glad you were able to make a decision what to do. While I do not believe 3 autographs per case (12.5%) are sufficient for me to throw the baby out with the bath water, each collector has to make a decision for themselves.

Ty, hopefully, when you see the product, youll come back on and give us any props we deserve for one of the best looking ALI efforts ever, maybe even try some boxes when you see that the product is not ruined by 3 autos/case (now new fans and associates that would have been Blins and Mildenbergers).

BG

 

[Ty Hope]

I'm officially out of this one. Canceled my boxes. I wish everyone still in good luck. Look forward to seeing the breaks.

I am glad you were able to make a decision what to do. While I do not believe 3 autographs per case (12.5%) are sufficient for me to throw the baby out with the bath water, each collector has to make a decision for themselves.

Ty, hopefully, when you see the product, youll come back on and give us any props we deserve for one of the best looking ALI efforts ever, maybe even try some boxes when you sell that the product is not ruined by 3 autos/case (now new fans and associates that would have been Blins and Mildenbergers).

BG

I'm sure the product will rock. Really look forward to seeing people break some boxes. I can just see myself going on a vent-fest after pulling a Bruce Jenner... :lol: I'll pick up some singles of the guys I'm after.

Good luck with the product.

 

[Leaf]

[quote="Ty Hope":1djnemxi]BG, what if you were to put in mystery redemptions for "former boxing champions"?

There are tons of them out there and I would have a hard time believing that a handful wouldn't agree to sign in a short time frame for an Ali product. It would continue with the boxing theme, they would be on-card, and most ripping this product would much rather have one than the random names picked for the "fans."

Probably too late now, but this IMO would have been a better way to go than digging through the sticker stockroom.

Trust me... we spent lots of time struggling with what to do.
These are going to fall 3 per case. This should not be a massive distraction from the theme.
Especially in light of the fact that all have either publically declared their fandom or are associated with ALI through works (google Tiegs, Borgnine, Gossett JR. for example)...
This was certainly not random checklisting. Thought went into this.

As far as redemptions, that sounds great and all. But when we spend a similar budget to go get champions, you would get 3-4 of the worst champions to ever hold a belt. Plus, when people got the redemptions, they would have unrealistic expectations that would result in disapppointment.

NO WIN!
BG

I guess it's just unfortunate that any of this had to happen at all, but that's how it goes sometimes. You, all of Leaf, the customer... no one was happy over any of this. I'm sure it will be a hit though and look forward to watching youtube breaks.[/quote:1djnemxi]

Thanks for the well wish... You would be shocked to know that most of the emails we received were POSITIVE about the change, as a majority of collectors that replied preferred a much bigger checklist and preferred those names over Blin and Mildenberger..

Some ALI purists are not fans of this, but as we all know, pleasing everyone is nearly impossible. Some would prefer more fans, some would prefer more opponents.

As a massive ALI fan, I am happy with the product. But I respect all collectors' choices what to buy. BG

 

[gt2590]

I'd just like to hear some interesting stories about getting the on-card autos done, especially if they were done IP with the Leaf/Razor reps present and not just send-backs.Is this kind of info anywhere? Maybe a blog on the home page, etc.?

Getting Ali in Scottsdale was one of the saddeest days of my life. Seeing ALI like that killed me. As a huge fan, I can see first hand one of my heroes mortality and its sinking in he wont be here forever. I actually cried. I guess that makes me a wuss. BG

How about the Donald? I hear he's alot like Mays, Aikman and Schmidt can be great IP or grouchy or just insane.

 

[matchpenalty]

BG , Any chance you can show off some more pictures of the cards. Or has pack out already started.

T Hope do guys like Shavers and Lyle have other cert autos on the market, or will these be the first for them. Any of the others in this set going to be first crack at getting certs from?

 

[markakis8]

LMAO, pure awesome.

"I would like to cancel my pre-order for Ali by Leaf. I was told there would no stickergraphs and that the BJ redemption would be for Brooklyn Decker, not Jennifer Aniston; she is too old!"