Name 3 players that most don't think will make HOF...

[Wes]

I can't see the argument for Vizquel. The guy was never one of the best players in the league during his career. He was never even one of the best players at his position.

 

[jbhofmann]

i agree with a couple guys on here...

Andruw Jones -- had a great decade of dominance

Andy Petitte -- broke Smoltz' post season wins record, money in regular and post season, plus he's a good ole' boy

Curt Schilling -- when it counted, you gave Schilling the ball and all you needed was one run


Someone who will get in based on stats but shouldn't is Randy Johnson, if he were a standard 6'2" pitcher there is no way he would have been the pitcher he was. Hell, by the time he released the ball he was only 50 feet from the plate.

~Exactly, Rickey Henderson wouldn't have been a al-time great if he wasn't fast.~

 

[Wes]

i agree with a couple guys on here...

Andruw Jones -- had a great decade of dominance

Andy Petitte -- broke Smoltz' post season wins record, money in regular and post season, plus he's a good ole' boy

Curt Schilling -- when it counted, you gave Schilling the ball and all you needed was one run


Someone who will get in based on stats but shouldn't is Randy Johnson, if he were a standard 6'2" pitcher there is no way he would have been the pitcher he was. Hell, by the time he released the ball he was only 50 feet from the plate.

~Exactly, Rickey Henderson wouldn't have been a al-time great if he wasn't fast.~

Agreed this is absolutely ridiculous. Johnson is an absolute lock. You can't take away physical attributes or tools from players to fit some bizarre narrative.

 

[VizquelCollector.com]

I can't see the argument for Vizquel. The guy was never one of the best players in the league during his career. He was never even one of the best players at his position.

For what it's worth, a good friend of mine is working on a documentary based on Omar's life and career. He's interviewed literally dozens of noteworthy current and former players, managers, and writers who strongly disagree.

A few quotes from the (unfinished) trailer-

Bochy: "He's the best shortstop I've ever seen."
Pinella: "He ranks up there with the best shortstops of his era."
Gammons: "I'll probably say he's the greatest defensive shortstop in the history of baseball."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOPMFSphYzM&lr=1

Hopefully the film will be done this year and it sways your opinion!

 

[MaineMule]

...original post was ""current players" so Schilling, Edgar, Kent not in my thinking.......

 

[Wes]

I can't see the argument for Vizquel. The guy was never one of the best players in the league during his career. He was never even one of the best players at his position.

For what it's worth, a good friend of mine is working on a documentary based on Omar's life and career. He's interviewed literally dozens of noteworthy current and former players, managers, and writers who strongly disagree.

A few quotes from the (unfinished) trailer-

Bochy: "He's the best shortstop I've ever seen."
Pinella: "He ranks up there with the best shortstops of his era."
Gammons: "I'll probably say he's the greatest defensive shortstop in the history of baseball."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOPMFSphYzM&lr=1

Hopefully the film will be done this year and it sways your opinion!

I'm pretty sure that all those quotes are talking about his ability as a defender, which I don't dispute. As an all around player, there wasn't a year where I'd have said he was one of the best players at his position.

 

[JEA2880]

Johan Santana
Bob Abreu (maybe)

I agree with Abreu - dude has had a pretty stellar career:

2,400 hits, lifetime .293, 400 SB, 300 HR, 1300 RBI, 1400 runs scored, even 550 doubles. He can do it all offensively.

 

[hive17]

Andruw Jones
Scott Rolen?
Jorge Posada?

 

[elmalo]

Mind if I just do two? I'm not well versed in the wide world of baseball sometimes, so I'd rather stick to two guys I know.

Jim Thome, Paul Konerko

Both have worked their butts off on the field, had productive careers, can smack the hide off a baseball, and (what should be the fist box to check on a qualification ballot) they both represented the game as well off the field as they did on. Jim Thome and Paul Konerko play the game it was meant to be played, and are shining examples of what a pro ball player in today's age should be. Good role models like them are getting harder to find as the years go by.

Thome will easily get in. Not sure about Kinerko as he isnt really a star. That might hurt his chances.

 

[colts1888]

i agree with a couple guys on here...

Andruw Jones -- had a great decade of dominance

Andy Petitte -- broke Smoltz' post season wins record, money in regular and post season, plus he's a good ole' boy

Curt Schilling -- when it counted, you gave Schilling the ball and all you needed was one run


Someone who will get in based on stats but shouldn't is Randy Johnson, if he were a standard 6'2" pitcher there is no way he would have been the pitcher he was. Hell, by the time he released the ball he was only 50 feet from the plate.

Randy Johnson was argubaly the best pitcher during the 90's and mid 00s dont see how anyone who follows baseball believe he isnt a HOFer

 

[Y4NK335]

Todd Helton - "Oh he plays in Colorado!" Well I don't see many other Rockie hitters batting .323 for their CAREER. Oh, and that's with four of his past six years of "mediocre" seasons where he batted less than .310. It's hard to ignore his production over the years and his .971 career OPS. That will come down a tad but I really don't see it going below .950. Again, multiple GG, SS, and AS winner.

First name I thought of when I read the title thread..some others that you can make a case for:

Andy Pettitte
Mike Mussina (I know, no longer active)
Johnny Damon (if he can latch on with a team for another 2 years or so and get to 3000)

 

[VizquelCollector.com]

I can't see the argument for Vizquel. The guy was never one of the best players in the league during his career. He was never even one of the best players at his position.

For what it's worth, a good friend of mine is working on a documentary based on Omar's life and career. He's interviewed literally dozens of noteworthy current and former players, managers, and writers who strongly disagree.

A few quotes from the (unfinished) trailer-

Bochy: "He's the best shortstop I've ever seen."
Pinella: "He ranks up there with the best shortstops of his era."
Gammons: "I'll probably say he's the greatest defensive shortstop in the history of baseball."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOPMFSphYzM&lr=1

Hopefully the film will be done this year and it sways your opinion!

I'm pretty sure that all those quotes are talking about his ability as a defender, which I don't dispute. As an all around player, there wasn't a year where I'd have said he was one of the best players at his position.

OK. Just sharing what I think are relevant opinions on the broader argument for Omar making the hall. The dominant view of the people interviewed for the documentary is that Omar's career is worthy of election. It's certainly not a slam-dunk case, but there are quite a few people who know more about the game than anyone here who feel he's deserving!

 

[markakis8]

Someone who will get in based on stats but shouldn't is Randy Johnson, if he were a standard 6'2" pitcher there is no way he would have been the pitcher he was. Hell, by the time he released the ball he was only 50 feet from the plate.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Wes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOPMFSphYzM&lr=1[/url]

Hopefully the film will be done this year and it sways your opinion!

I'm pretty sure that all those quotes are talking about his ability as a defender, which I don't dispute. As an all around player, there wasn't a year where I'd have said he was one of the best players at his position.

OK. Just sharing what I think are relevant opinions on the broader argument for Omar making the hall. The dominant view of the people interviewed for the documentary is that Omar's career is worthy of election. It's certainly not a slam-dunk case, but there are quite a few people who know more about the game than anyone here who feel he's deserving! [/quote:3lwjfnc1]

Whether or not he or any other player is "deserving" is not my argument. Players and coaches are much more likely to want to put people into the Hall of Fame because of their proximity.

What I said is that the argument is weak because he was never one of the best players at his position. Even as a huge Vizquel fan, can you tell me what year he was one of the overall top three shortstops in the game? For most of his career he wasn't even top 6 or 7. I can think of a long list of shortstops who were his contemporaries who were superior players. Jeter, Nomar, Tejada, A-Rod, Ripken, Reyes, Hanley, Rollins, Michael Young, Tulo and the list goes on. Vizquel is a significantly below average offensive player over his career, putting up an 82 OPS+. His career WAR - which includes his defense - is just 42.3, despite playing 23 seasons so far. He's a good, even very good player, but not an all time great.

 

[bowmanchromeandorr]

i agree with a couple guys on here...

Andruw Jones -- had a great decade of dominance

Andy Petitte -- broke Smoltz' post season wins record, money in regular and post season, plus he's a good ole' boy

Curt Schilling -- when it counted, you gave Schilling the ball and all you needed was one run


Someone who will get in based on stats but shouldn't is Randy Johnson, if he were a standard 6'2" pitcher there is no way he would have been the pitcher he was. Hell, by the time he released the ball he was only 50 feet from the plate.

Randy Johnson was argubaly the best pitcher during the 90's and mid 00s dont see how anyone who follows baseball believe he isnt a HOFer

part of me is biased in my disdain for him, he was a good pitcher but if he was the "average sized" pitcher he wouldn't have been nearly as dominant

 

[miguelcabrera]

i agree with a couple guys on here...

Andruw Jones -- had a great decade of dominance

Andy Petitte -- broke Smoltz' post season wins record, money in regular and post season, plus he's a good ole' boy

Curt Schilling -- when it counted, you gave Schilling the ball and all you needed was one run


Someone who will get in based on stats but shouldn't is Randy Johnson, if he were a standard 6'2" pitcher there is no way he would have been the pitcher he was. Hell, by the time he released the ball he was only 50 feet from the plate.

Randy Johnson was argubaly the best pitcher during the 90's and mid 00s dont see how anyone who follows baseball believe he isnt a HOFer

part of me is biased in my disdain for him, he was a good pitcher but if he was the "average sized" pitcher he wouldn't have been nearly as dominant

i have been saying this to people for years but nobody ever really listened to me. people just want to throw him in the hall for his stats, but if you look at his size then he would not have those stats. i really hope he does not get in

 

[jbhofmann]

i agree with a couple guys on here...

Andruw Jones -- had a great decade of dominance

Andy Petitte -- broke Smoltz' post season wins record, money in regular and post season, plus he's a good ole' boy

Curt Schilling -- when it counted, you gave Schilling the ball and all you needed was one run


Someone who will get in based on stats but shouldn't is Randy Johnson, if he were a standard 6'2" pitcher there is no way he would have been the pitcher he was. Hell, by the time he released the ball he was only 50 feet from the plate.

Randy Johnson was argubaly the best pitcher during the 90's and mid 00s dont see how anyone who follows baseball believe he isnt a HOFer

part of me is biased in my disdain for him, he was a good pitcher but if he was the "average sized" pitcher he wouldn't have been nearly as dominant

i have been saying this to people for years but nobody ever really listened to me. people just want to throw him in the hall for his stats, but if you look at his size then he would not have those stats. i really hope he does not get in

Check the right side of your sig.

 

[miguelcabrera]

i agree with a couple guys on here...

Andruw Jones -- had a great decade of dominance

Andy Petitte -- broke Smoltz' post season wins record, money in regular and post season, plus he's a good ole' boy

Curt Schilling -- when it counted, you gave Schilling the ball and all you needed was one run


Someone who will get in based on stats but shouldn't is Randy Johnson, if he were a standard 6'2" pitcher there is no way he would have been the pitcher he was. Hell, by the time he released the ball he was only 50 feet from the plate.

Randy Johnson was argubaly the best pitcher during the 90's and mid 00s dont see how anyone who follows baseball believe he isnt a HOFer

part of me is biased in my disdain for him, he was a good pitcher but if he was the "average sized" pitcher he wouldn't have been nearly as dominant

i have been saying this to people for years but nobody ever really listened to me. people just want to throw him in the hall for his stats, but if you look at his size then he would not have those stats. i really hope he does not get in

Check the right side of your sig.

bethel johnson?

 

[VizquelCollector.com]

I can't see the argument for Vizquel...

Whether or not he or any other player is "deserving" is not my argument. Players and coaches are much more likely to want to put people into the Hall of Fame because of their proximity.

What I said is that the argument is weak because he was never one of the best players at his position. Even as a huge Vizquel fan, can you tell me what year he was one of the overall top three shortstops in the game? For most of his career he wasn't even top 6 or 7. I can think of a long list of shortstops who were his contemporaries who were superior players. Jeter, Nomar, Tejada, A-Rod, Ripken, Reyes, Hanley, Rollins, Michael Young, Tulo and the list goes on. Vizquel is a significantly below average offensive player over his career, putting up an 82 OPS+. His career WAR - which includes his defense - is just 42.3, despite playing 23 seasons so far. He's a good, even very good player, but not an all time great.

I was just pointing out that more than a few in the game, including some HOF'ers, strongly disagree with you. I'm happy that people are even debating it and personally think he's a 50% shot at best.

On a different note, do people really question whether Thome gets in? And not on the first few ballots? I just assumed it was a given but what do I know...

 

[sportscardtheory]

i agree with a couple guys on here...

Andruw Jones -- had a great decade of dominance

Andy Petitte -- broke Smoltz' post season wins record, money in regular and post season, plus he's a good ole' boy

Curt Schilling -- when it counted, you gave Schilling the ball and all you needed was one run


Someone who will get in based on stats but shouldn't is Randy Johnson, if he were a standard 6'2" pitcher there is no way he would have been the pitcher he was. Hell, by the time he released the ball he was only 50 feet from the plate.

Randy Johnson was argubaly the best pitcher during the 90's and mid 00s dont see how anyone who follows baseball believe he isnt a HOFer

part of me is biased in my disdain for him, he was a good pitcher but if he was the "average sized" pitcher he wouldn't have been nearly as dominant

i have been saying this to people for years but nobody ever really listened to me. people just want to throw him in the hall for his stats, but if you look at his size then he would not have those stats. i really hope he does not get in

Just laughable. :lol:

Randy Johnson was one of the most dominant forces in the history of the game. You two need to stop. It's such a laughable argument that no one is even "arguing" with you, but laughing at you.