Official Error and Variation Discussion/Reference Thread

[BBCgalaxee]

The Winfield promo is the one where his helmet doesn't touch the border.

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[Hawk8]

Can anyone tell me about this card?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANDRE-DAWSO...%2FkAuzBy6%2F6f45iJs8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

[ragtop12]

Wow never seen one of those! With Bonds in the set, surprised I haven't! I am always weery of the proofs that pop up 15-20 years later!
Hopefully someone has more info for yoU!

Can anyone tell me about this card?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANDRE-DAWSON-1993-Topps-BLACK-GOLD-Oddball-Variation-PROOF-Very-RARE-SSP-/111562611887?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=hBDZwhrnjr%252FkAuzBy6%252F6f45iJs8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

[gamecockfanatic]

read through this thread yesterday (well , i admit i skipped over the old posts that only had broken links or missing pics after a sentence that said something like "i found these" or "is this a variation" with no details available) and i believe that a few of the items i talked about in my reply on the old beckett thread still have not been discussed here so......(since some of those were in direct response to other posts in that thread , i had addressed them with the corresponding post #....i'll leave those in my comments here so if anyone wants to go see more for themselves they can find them)


the next two items were not mentioned in the thread yet , so i was just adding a few "new" ones....

1995 donruss.....not sure if it affects all cards or if this variation is limited but i have a handful of base cards with the regular silver foil highlights on the front whose backs feature the gold "1st 2000 printed" banner that should be found only on the press proofs....i recall this being discussed VERY BRIEFLY when the product was still new but it seems this variation has been widely "forgotten"....i think i had about 15 or 20 of them and as i recall there was no pattern for finding them in boxes aside from the fact that the did fall in place of the correct versions of the press proofs....i'll have to do some digging to find my stash of them , but i am pretty sure i have a tom glavine somewhere close by if anyone needs to see a scan for proof...

was digging around looking for an old hockey promo today when i found a small case containing some of these 1995 donruss variations....still not sure exactly how rare these are , but i did search ebay and i didn't see any of them among the 700+ listings for 1995 press prrofs nor did i see any 1995 donruss listed as errors , variations , or wrong backs....if anyone has any of these , even if i can't ACQUIRE them , i'd love to try to add more confirmed variations to checklist of the ones i found today :

181 vinny castilla
182 bill spiers
183 randy knorr
184 brian hunter (2)
185 pat meares
187 kirt manwaring (2)
190 josias manzanillo
195 greg gagne
196 steve cooke
197 woody williams
198 ron karkovice
200 jim thome
204 reggie sanders
206 jay bell
208 tim scott

i'd never paid attention to the numbers before , but these sure are clustered together so perhaps that is a sign that only a specific sheets or portion of a sheet ended up like this....

i also am 100% positive i have one more (though it was not in the case with these) :

248 tom glavine

this is the only one i have on hand that i'm certain of that is not numbered between 181 and 208 ....

 

[u2me57]

That's pretty cool. I don't have many of the 1995 Donruss cards so I checked my 3 base Thome cards and they looked normal and my 1 Thome Press Proof looked normal. That is interesting about the numbering of the cards you have.

 

[ragtop12]

I recently found one in a guys penny box... Gary sheffield #168

was digging around looking for an old hockey promo today when i found a small case containing some of these 1995 donruss variations....still not sure exactly how rare these are , but i did search ebay and i didn't see any of them among the 700+ listings for 1995 press prrofs nor did i see any 1995 donruss listed as errors , variations , or wrong backs....if anyone has any of these , even if i can't ACQUIRE them , i'd love to try to add more confirmed variations to checklist of the ones i found today :

181 vinny castilla
182 bill spiers
183 randy knorr
184 brian hunter (2)
185 pat meares
187 kirt manwaring (2)
190 josias manzanillo
195 greg gagne
196 steve cooke
197 woody williams
198 ron karkovice
200 jim thome
204 reggie sanders
206 jay bell
208 tim scott

i'd never paid attention to the numbers before , but these sure are clustered together so perhaps that is a sign that only a specific sheets or portion of a sheet ended up like this....

i also am 100% positive i have one more (though it was not in the case with these) :

248 tom glavine

this is the only one i have on hand that i'm certain of that is not numbered between 181 and 208 ....

 

[DaClyde]

The Winfield promo is the one where his helmet doesn't touch the border.

Thanks to a trade heavily lop-sided in my favor with a major Winfield collector, I now own one of these. The cropping is noticeably different on the front, as well.

Top cards are the regular version.

Bottom cards are the promo.

 

[RStadlerASU22]

I have the Will Clark 95 Donruss variation as well. Not at home so I don't remember card #

Ryan

 

[ragtop12]

Thanks yeah I assumed it was not the promo.. thanks for confirming.
Obed

Thanks to a trade heavily lop-sided in my favor with a major Winfield collector, I now own one of these. The cropping is noticeably different on the front, as well.

As soon as Picasa starts working again, I'll post images for comparison.

 

[ragtop12]

OK So found another 1988 Donruss MVP Bonus Card INC/INC. variation. Will Clark. Wondering if all BC cards are this way.

 

[saucywombat]

was digging around looking for an old hockey promo today when i found a small case containing some of these 1995 donruss variations....still not sure exactly how rare these are , but i did search ebay and i didn't see any of them among the 700+ listings for 1995 press prrofs nor did i see any 1995 donruss listed as errors , variations , or wrong backs....if anyone has any of these , even if i can't ACQUIRE them , i'd love to try to add more confirmed variations to checklist of the ones i found today :

181 vinny castilla
182 bill spiers
183 randy knorr
184 brian hunter (2)
185 pat meares
187 kirt manwaring (2)
190 josias manzanillo
195 greg gagne
196 steve cooke
197 woody williams
198 ron karkovice
200 jim thome
204 reggie sanders
206 jay bell
208 tim scott

i'd never paid attention to the numbers before , but these sure are clustered together so perhaps that is a sign that only a specific sheets or portion of a sheet ended up like this....

i also am 100% positive i have one more (though it was not in the case with these) :

248 tom glavine

this is the only one i have on hand that i'm certain of that is not numbered between 181 and 208 ....

Here is a link to a thread on this forum discussing these variations: http://www.freedomcardboard.com/for...151-1995-Donruss-error?highlight=1995+donruss

 

[Hawk8]

I have over 200 95 Donruss Andre Dawsons, I'm going to have to look through them

 

[ragtop12]

It looks like the 1989 Topps set has TONS of variaitons/different print runs (or something). I have found many different "marks" on some players. For example, have these in Clemens AS:
[TABLE="width: 377"]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Fine Black Squiggle to Right of Clemens' Ear on Front)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Fine Black Squiggle to Right of Clemens' Ear & Yellow Oval Near NL Banner on Front)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Fine Black Squiggle to Right of Clemens' Ear & Small Yellow Oval Near NL Banner on Front)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Small Yellow Circle Right of Clemens' Ear on Front)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Fine Black Squiggle to Right of Clemens' Ear & Small Yellow Circle to Right of Hat on Front)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I have confirmed that I have at least seen 2 of each of these with identical markings.

 

[gamecockfanatic]

It looks like the 1989 Topps set has TONS of variaitons/different print runs (or something). I have found many different "marks" on some players. For example, have these in Clemens AS:
[TABLE="width: 377"]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Fine Black Squiggle to Right of Clemens' Ear on Front)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Fine Black Squiggle to Right of Clemens' Ear & Yellow Oval Near NL Banner on Front)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Fine Black Squiggle to Right of Clemens' Ear & Small Yellow Oval Near NL Banner on Front)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Small Yellow Circle Right of Clemens' Ear on Front)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1989 Topps AS VAR (Fine Black Squiggle to Right of Clemens' Ear & Small Yellow Circle to Right of Hat on Front)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I have confirmed that I have at least seen 2 of each of these with identical markings.

maybe it's just me (among the variation collectors) , but i really have a hard time considering simple print flaws (and i mean things like a stray thread or speck of dust altering a printing plate enough to cause print dots or smudges temporialy until someone noitces and removes it) as true variations....for me a variation really needs to be an intentional manual alteration of the actual printing plate itself (adding/deleting/moving text/logos , changing colors/fonts , etc)

 

[ragtop12]

Depends really IMO. With these, I have found 2 or more that are identical. So it is definitely a different print run and not just an print bubble or something. Regardless some do and some don't.

maybe it's just me (among the variation collectors) , but i really have a hard time considering simple print flaws (and i mean things like a stray thread or speck of dust altering a printing plate enough to cause print dots or smudges temporialy until someone noitces and removes it) as true variations....for me a variation really needs to be an intentional manual alteration of the actual printing plate itself (adding/deleting/moving text/logos , changing colors/fonts , etc)

 

[Hawk8]

I love variations as much if not more than the next player collector, but I also have a hard time counting these as variations, but I am the one that will look through thousands of Upper Deck holograms so who knows

 

[ragtop12]

I understand both of your thoughts... my thought is I went through about 60 of that Clemens card... and 2-3 had each of the variations. I wasn't sure if these squiggles were early printings which tops caught and fixed the plates, or what.

So would these be considered errors then according to your definitions? I mean, the Frank Thomas NNOF is missing black ink, jsut a printer defect. There are also cards like a Boggs 89 Fleer without the balck mark on back that people chase... the Clemens 1986 Topps with pink line is one, the Joyner 88T is another... where is the line drawn?

 

[ragtop12]

I love variations as much if not more than the next player collector, but I also have a hard time counting these as variations, but I am the one that will look through thousands of Upper Deck holograms so who knows

I also went through 1000 Dawson cards, and found these. None of these you'd consider variations (except the UD holos)? Also found a nice 88 topps blackless (very little black) of him!

Andre Dawson 1985 Topps VAR (White Dot Above "O" in OF on Front) [URL=http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=4]#4 20[/URL]
Andre Dawson 1986 Topps VAR (White Dot Above "E" in Andre on Back) #760
Andre Dawson 1987 Topps VAR (Pink Comma to Right of Name on Front) #345
Andre Dawson 1987 Topps VAR (Pink Circle to Right of Dawson's Forearm on Front) #345
Andre Dawson 1987 Topps VAR (Pink Circle to Right of Dawson's Last Name on Front) #345
Andre Dawson 1987 Topps VAR (Pink Circle & Line to Left of Name on Front) #345
Andre Dawson 1988 Donruss Bonus MVP's ("Inc." on Back) #BC10
Andre Dawson 1988 Topps ERR (Very Minimal Black Ink (Appears Light Gray) on Front #500
Andre Dawson 1989 Score VAR (Pink Dot in Top Left Corner of Photo on Front) #2
Andre Dawson 1989 Fleer VAR (White Mark in Left Border & Larger Pink Dot Above Cubs Logo on Jersey on Front) [URL=http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=4]#4 22[/URL]
Andre Dawson 1989 Fleer VAR (White Mark in Left Border on Front) [URL=http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=4]#4 22[/URL]
Andre Dawson 1989 Fleer VAR (White Mark in Left Border & Smaller Pink Dot Above & To Left of Cubs Logo on Jersey on Front) [URL=http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=4]#4 22[/URL]
Andre Dawson 1989 Fleer VAR (Pink Circle on Bottom of Jersey on Front) [URL=http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=4]#4 22[/URL]
Andre Dawson 1989 Topps VAR (Pink Arc to Left of Topps on Front) #10
Andre Dawson 1989 Topps VAR (Pink Circle Above Dawson's Helmet on Front) #10
Andre Dawson 1989 Topps RB VAR (Light Blue Triangle to Right of Dawson's Head on Front) #4
Andre Dawson 1989 Topps AS VAR (White Blob Above "E" in Andre on Front) #391
Andre Dawson 1990 Score VAR (Small White Circle in Top Border Above Bat on Front) #2 65
Andre Dawson 1990 Score VAR (Pink Circle in to Right of Bat on Front) #2 65
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer ("Printed in U.S.A" on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer ("Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Pink Vertical Line in Top Border on Back & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Small Pink Dot on Background Player's Leg on Front & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Pink Circle to Left of Outfield on Front & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Pink Circle Above "n" in Dawson on Front & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Pink Circle to Right of Name on Front & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Donruss VAR (White Circle to Left of MLB Logo on Back & "Inc" on Back) #2 23
Andre Dawson 1991 Upper Deck ERR (1990 Hologram on Back - Includes Small 90's) #4 54
Andre Dawson 1991 Upper Deck ERR (1990 Hologram on Back - Includes Large 90's) #4 54
Andre Dawson 1992 O-Pee-Chee Premier (Black Mark to Left of OPC Logo on Back) #4 5
Andre Dawson 1992 O-Pee-Chee Premier (Black Mark to Left of OPC Logo Partially Airbrushed on Back) #4 5
Andre Dawson 1992 O-Pee-Chee Premier (Black Mark to Left of OPC Logo Mostly Airbrushed on Back) #4 5
Andre Dawson 1993 Topps VAR (Light Green Circle Behinds Dawson's Head on Front) #2 65


IMO, cards like the 92 OPC premier with the different airbrushing are like the Topps Big with the letters partially airbrushed. Who knows though. When I have 20-20 of the same card, worth pulling out these oddities in case a Dawson collector indeed looks for these things!

 

[ASTROBURN]

Yes I found it! Kind of like this site! Might stick around a bit!

A newer variation... 2014 Gypsy Queen... it appears every card in the set has two different color borders on front. One is a darker and one is lighter. Anyone else notice this? Worthy of listing as a variation? I know this is just for "junk wax" but just wanted to mention it since many retired players are in the set from that era.

got my comc order in. I had decided to take a chance on those gypsy queens. And yup. One is lighter than the other. Ill add scans next time i get to scan my incoming...

 

[Hawk8]

I also went through 1000 Dawson cards, and found these. None of these you'd consider variations (except the UD holos)? Also found a nice 88 topps blackless (very little black) of him!

Andre Dawson 1985 Topps VAR (White Dot Above "O" in OF on Front) #4 20
Andre Dawson 1986 Topps VAR (White Dot Above "E" in Andre on Back) #760
Andre Dawson 1987 Topps VAR (Pink Comma to Right of Name on Front) #345
Andre Dawson 1987 Topps VAR (Pink Circle to Right of Dawson's Forearm on Front) #345
Andre Dawson 1987 Topps VAR (Pink Circle to Right of Dawson's Last Name on Front) #345
Andre Dawson 1987 Topps VAR (Pink Circle & Line to Left of Name on Front) #345
Andre Dawson 1988 Donruss Bonus MVP's ("Inc." on Back) #BC10
Andre Dawson 1988 Topps ERR (Very Minimal Black Ink (Appears Light Gray) on Front #500
Andre Dawson 1989 Score VAR (Pink Dot in Top Left Corner of Photo on Front) #2
Andre Dawson 1989 Fleer VAR (White Mark in Left Border & Larger Pink Dot Above Cubs Logo on Jersey on Front) #4 22
Andre Dawson 1989 Fleer VAR (White Mark in Left Border on Front) #4 22
Andre Dawson 1989 Fleer VAR (White Mark in Left Border & Smaller Pink Dot Above & To Left of Cubs Logo on Jersey on Front) #4 22
Andre Dawson 1989 Fleer VAR (Pink Circle on Bottom of Jersey on Front) #4 22
Andre Dawson 1989 Topps VAR (Pink Arc to Left of Topps on Front) #10
Andre Dawson 1989 Topps VAR (Pink Circle Above Dawson's Helmet on Front) #10
Andre Dawson 1989 Topps RB VAR (Light Blue Triangle to Right of Dawson's Head on Front) #4
Andre Dawson 1989 Topps AS VAR (White Blob Above "E" in Andre on Front) #391
Andre Dawson 1990 Score VAR (Small White Circle in Top Border Above Bat on Front) #2 65
Andre Dawson 1990 Score VAR (Pink Circle in to Right of Bat on Front) #2 65
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer ("Printed in U.S.A" on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer ("Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Pink Vertical Line in Top Border on Back & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Small Pink Dot on Background Player's Leg on Front & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Pink Circle to Left of Outfield on Front & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Pink Circle Above "n" in Dawson on Front & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Fleer VAR (Pink Circle to Right of Name on Front & "Printed in U.S.A." on Back) #2 9
Andre Dawson 1990 Donruss VAR (White Circle to Left of MLB Logo on Back & "Inc" on Back) #2 23
Andre Dawson 1991 Upper Deck ERR (1990 Hologram on Back - Includes Small 90's) #4 54
Andre Dawson 1991 Upper Deck ERR (1990 Hologram on Back - Includes Large 90's) #4 54
Andre Dawson 1992 O-Pee-Chee Premier (Black Mark to Left of OPC Logo on Back) #4 5
Andre Dawson 1992 O-Pee-Chee Premier (Black Mark to Left of OPC Logo Partially Airbrushed on Back) #4 5
Andre Dawson 1992 O-Pee-Chee Premier (Black Mark to Left of OPC Logo Mostly Airbrushed on Back) #4 5
Andre Dawson 1993 Topps VAR (Light Green Circle Behinds Dawson's Head on Front) #2 65


IMO, cards like the 92 OPC premier with the different airbrushing are like the Topps Big with the letters partially airbrushed. Who knows though. When I have 20-20 of the same card, worth pulling out these oddities in case a Dawson collector indeed looks for these things!

Wow, I really appreciate the list! I will go through my thousands of Dawson extras the next time I am home and see what I find and see if the difference sways me to consider it a variation. I will post an update the next time I make it home. Thanks Again!