Penn State

[gt2590]

Giving the "death sentence" to PSU football would be like Punishing the day-to-day Catholic Church members for what their Bishops/Cardinals did in almost all Dioceses in the US and Europe.

Although I like what Miles did with raising the Academic standards, this just looks like a NCAA president trying to grandstand and flex his "muscles" since they rarely get to do it themselves...

 

[HPC]

The NCAA would also lose money from giving the death penalty, so dont expect it to happen

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

I think you guys arguing agains the death penalty (or, the best choice for PSu as an institution, self-imposed football suspension) are doing exactly what happened to exacerbate the problem in the first place. You are prioritizing football over all else. Those poor student-athletes, or are they athlete-students, or mere athletes?

Anyone on scholarship should remain on scholarship to be able to earn their degree. They should also be allowed to transfer per NCAa rules, possibly with an allowance to forgo the off year required for some such transfers. after that, what's the problem?

The death penalty has been given before. Was it always akin to bombing a city? It can't be done without collateral victims, and no doubt others have unfairly suffered for unknowing invovlement in a corrupted system. But it has to be done when the problems in a program have become so systematic as to warrant system-wide action.

 

[Card Magnet]

I'm not prioritizing the football program. I'm just discussing one of the "smaller" aspects of the big picture, plus this is primarily a sports hobby board. I think everyone basically agrees with all of the other issues that I didn't bother bringing them up. No punishment is too much (or really, enough) for the individual offenders.

It's also not just about football. The death penalty to the program goes so much further than the student athletes.

PSU employs numerous people who would lose their job, all the way from coaches all the way down to drink vendors and clean up crew. There are also people employed by outside agencies that work in association with the university, such as security firms.

Then there is the surrounding community. Is it safe to say that millions of dollars flow through businesses in the State College area each season just because of PSU football? I think it is. There are hotels, restaurants, apparel stores, beer distributors, bars, grocery stores, gas stations, corner stores, and then all of the random other businesses visitors and PSU football fans go to while out, such as somebody who walks into a Best Buy to pick up batteries for their camera or a corner store selling antiques because something in the window caught their eye. Then of course there are the places that make money from leasing parking spaces.

The death penalty punishes way too many people who not only have nothing to do with the original offenders, but don't even have anything to do with the school.

The school can be punished in a way that doesn't affect such a mass number of people. Collateral damage is unavoidable, but easily minimized with a little effort.

 

[hive17]

I still feel bad for Jo Pa in that, I see my grandfather in him and try to imagine what MY 80-year-old+ grandfather would do when faced with such a disgusting act. I'm not going to argue against anything anyone says and whatever happens to him and his legacy, so be it. BUT, I have this image of a sad old man, who grew up in a time that is SO far removed from anything most people on this board know, having to hear about and deal with the sick acts committed by someone he knew well. If that were my relative, I would ask him "why? how could you let that happen?", but I don't know as I would turn my hate on him. That's the issue I have, is that people HATE Jo Pa; I guess I reserve my hate for the actual criminals.

I've maintained that the reason we are talking about Jo Pa and the cover-up is not because of how aweful they acted, but because of how straight-forward the evil that is Sandusky, is. The news needs something to talk about because there are no angles on Sandusky, and it's a tough subject to address. The cover-up basically allows you to say "child rape" a lot less.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Card Magnet]

I've maintained that the reason we are talking about Jo Pa and the cover-up is not because of how aweful they acted, but because of how straight-forward the evil that is Sandusky, is. The news needs something to talk about because there are no angles on Sandusky, and it's a tough subject to address. The cover-up basically allows you to say "child rape" a lot less.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

I think that's well said. There aren't many ways to paint that picture. Plus the Sandusky saga is also all but done since the trial has concluded. All that's left is sentencing and any appeals process, which doesn't give much material for discussion and coverage at this point.

 

[thefatguy]

The reason we are talking about the cover-up is because the Football Head Coach, Athletic Director, Director of Finance and School President failed to protect countless later victims after the 1998 incident was reported to them, in order to preserve the money making football program essentially.

Please read the Grand Jury indictment, and please read the Freeh Report (an independent report commissioned by PSU).

Those 4 men knew what Sandusky was doing, and let it continue. On Campus. Repeatedly. From who knows how early (maybe the 70's) until presumably 2011.

I'll be happy to cut and paste what Freeh found here, damning the football program, athletic department and particularily JoePa.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

I'm not prioritizing the football program. I'm just discussing one of the "smaller" aspects of the big picture, plus this is primarily a sports hobby board. I think everyone basically agrees with all of the other issues that I didn't bother bringing them up. No punishment is too much (or really, enough) for the individual offenders.

It's also not just about football. The death penalty to the program goes so much further than the student athletes.

PSU employs numerous people who would lose their job, all the way from coaches all the way down to drink vendors and clean up crew. There are also people employed by outside agencies that work in association with the university, such as security firms.

Then there is the surrounding community. Is it safe to say that millions of dollars flow through businesses in the State College area each season just because of PSU football? I think it is. There are hotels, restaurants, apparel stores, beer distributors, bars, grocery stores, gas stations, corner stores, and then all of the random other businesses visitors and PSU football fans go to while out, such as somebody who walks into a Best Buy to pick up batteries for their camera or a corner store selling antiques because something in the window caught their eye. Then of course there are the places that make money from leasing parking spaces.

The death penalty punishes way too many people who not only have nothing to do with the original offenders, but don't even have anything to do with the school.

The school can be punished in a way that doesn't affect such a mass number of people. Collateral damage is unavoidable, but easily minimized with a little effort.

I'm aware of all of this. Let me ask you: is the death penalty ever warranted? Why and for what? We agree that it would never be victimless.

It is not about punishing anyone at this point. It is about reestablishing priorities. I'm sorry that so many people bought into a corrupt program. A lesson for all of us.

 

[hive17]

The reason we are talking about the cover-up is because the Football Head Coach, Athletic Director, Director of Finance and School President failed to protect countless later victims after the 1998 incident was reported to them, in order to preserve the money making football program essentially.

Please read the Grand Jury indictment, and please read the Freeh Report (an independent report commissioned by PSU).

Those 4 men knew what Sandusky was doing, and let it continue. On Campus. Repeatedly. From who knows how early (maybe the 70's) until presumably 2011.

I'll be happy to cut and paste what Freeh found here, damning the football program, athletic department and particularily JoePa.

Look, I've read it all. I understand it all. I listen to the Michael Smerconish every day, and he's been a bull dog on this topic forever. I know what they did was criminal. But I don't think it was predatory. So, like I said: I guess i reserve my hatered for the evil criminal, and am just saddened by the cover-up.

 

[Card Magnet]

The death penalty as we know it is warranted when a program is actively corrupt. When there are players, coaches, and administration all active and involved. The offense would also have to be directly related to the day to day operations of team. In this case, the original offense had nothing to do with the program. The coverup that followed was mostly related to the program, but not enough of the program was involved (it was just a few individuals).

Even then, I'm think some aspects of it should be handled different, and some exemptions should be made for the innocent students affected.

I know if I lost income because somebody at a venue I work at committed a crime, I would be livid.

 

[RITM]

The priorities illustration is a good one. PSU has a lot to clean up right now. As pointed out they cash in on their football program. Making money off a program that allowed young people to be victimized is wrong. Athletics is a privilege and not a right.

 

[Gwynn545]

So, like I said: I guess i reserve my hatered for the evil criminal, and am just saddened by the cover-up.

Sorry, Hive, but that just comes out WRONG...Anyone that covered it up is pure evil. Pure... If you hate Sandusky, you hate them all. They basically held the kids down while Sandusky had his way... I am not sad or sorry for anything that will or should happen to the school and it's leaders. Give all the students a way out, and tear the school down. Give the victims and their families some wisp of a closure....

 

[Gwynn545]

I know if I lost income because somebody at a venue I work at committed a crime, I would be livid.

But at least you weren't *****, so cut your losses and move on...

 

[gt2590]

Sorry, Hive, but that just comes out WRONG...Anyone that covered it up is pure evil. Pure... If you hate Sandusky, you hate them all. They basically held the kids down while Sandusky had his way... I am not sad or sorry for anything that will or should happen to the school and it's leaders. Give all the students a way out, and tear the school down. Give the victims and their families some wisp of a closure....

You don't think this post is way over the Top? :???:

 

[Card Magnet]

But at least you weren't *****, so cut your losses and move on...

So because I wasn't ***** and some poor person (or group of people) was, I should just go along with being a lesser victim of the crime they suffered by losing my job? Can't agree with that.

I would hope the victims wouldn't feel that to be fair either. I know I wouldn't be comfortable with punishment being exacted in my name that affected such a large scale of innocent people.

I maintain there is a way to punish the university without including so many innocents that comes with the death penalty.

 

[19braves77]

I am surprised how many rival school and schools outside the Big 10 are teeing off on Penn State and Good Ole Joe. It seems that when ever Paterno brought something up to to NCAA it was taking very seriously since Penn State was a model school when it came to recruiting. Schools report on each other and seems Penn State was the head horseman in this area. Paterno criticized many Southern schools when he was recruiting blacks from the South to Penn State. Penn State is already in isolation by its own conference.

My personal opinion is if the NCAA wants to ignore this and cry about a college student getting a free $10.00 pizza, the state board of education, the state legislature, or whomever has the legal authority to do so should simply tell PSU that they are not allowed to have a football team for however long if they want to remain part of the state system and receive state funding.

I think the NCAA will get creative with the punishment and make them feel like its the death penalty. PSU is going to be the sacrificial lamb.

 

[hive17]

Sorry, Hive, but that just comes out WRONG...Anyone that covered it up is pure evil. Pure... If you hate Sandusky, you hate them all. They basically held the kids down while Sandusky had his way... I am not sad or sorry for anything that will or should happen to the school and it's leaders. Give all the students a way out, and tear the school down. Give the victims and their families some wisp of a closure....

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I disagree that anyone other than Sandusky is to blame for the actual act. He's so evil and destructive, that I'd have no problem applying the death penalty to him. Seriously. Let him be wiped from the Earth for the things he did. But I don't subscribe to the school of thought that the accomplices that didn't commit the crime are as guilty as the one who did. They committed different crimes and should (and are) be punished accordingly.

But I agree with you that I'm not going to raise one ounce of protest for anything that happens to Penn State, the football program, or Jo Pa's legacy. I'm not even defending them in the least. I just feel it's more sad and pathetic, and I choose to reserve my HATE (i.e., wish death upon) for Jerry Sandusky.

 

[vwnut13]

 

[Brad]

So because I wasn't ***** and some poor person (or group of people) was, I should just go along with being a lesser victim of the crime they suffered by losing my job? Can't agree with that.

I would hope the victims wouldn't feel that to be fair either. I know I wouldn't be comfortable with punishment being exacted in my name that affected such a large scale of innocent people.

I maintain there is a way to punish the university without including so many innocents that comes with the death penalty.

Agree. Granted, I am not sure the NCAA has the authority based on the fact there were no NCAA rules broken - lots of things wrong and broken, just not NCAA rules.

Also add all the student athletes and coaches for 27 other sports, whose scholarships, salaries, and costs are funded by football money and a little by men's bball. What about them?

An admin overhaul needs to and will be done. The collateral damage does not change the fact of what happened. Hurting more livelihoods is not the answer

 

[Liberate Baltimore]

Regardless if PSU gets the death penalty, this will hurt their recruiting for at least the next decade.