PLEA TO THE COMMISH THIS IS WRONG

[trevordchi]

And for the record, I went to over 5 Yankee games last year, each ticket LESS than 20$. It costs me more to get to the stadium and back than buying the ticket.
It'll be the same this year.

You sure about that?

Yes, I'm sure about that. You see, the thing is, I live in New York and you don't.

The thing is, we all have the internet and can easily find out that the only $20 tickets are in the OF in the Upper Deck.

Anything in the lower level is $100+ and closer to $200 in the infield.

 

[Billy Packer]

Does it matter what the Yankees spend when teams like the Rays go to the World Series?

I would tend to argue that it does matter Chris. Yes, smaller market teams like the Rays or Rockies in recent years can have incredibly intriguing seasons. There is no doubt about that in recent years. However, doesn't the current structure make it very difficult for these teams to be successful on a long term basis?

As more of the Rays players reach free agency, what realistic chance do the Rays have of matching bids from larger market teams? Their only hope is to take the compensation picks or trade for prospects, and hope to continue their cycle of great drafting and development. I think this process is far harder to sustain over a long period of time than signing established talent. One or two bad trades or drafts can be devastating to a small market, while large markets are far less limited.

This is one of the key arguments in favor of some kind of hard cap system to me. The way the rules are set up now, the big market, deep pocketed teams have a huge advantage. Teams can do everything right in terms of drafting and developing talent and then be forced to either trade them away or watch them walk with nothing in return because they don't have the dollars to compete in free agency. Baseball's broken - plain and simple.

 

[predatorkj]

And for the record, I went to over 5 Yankee games last year, each ticket LESS than 20$. It costs me more to get to the stadium and back than buying the ticket.
It'll be the same this year.

You sure about that?

Yes, I'm sure about that. You see, the thing is, I live in New York and you don't.

The thing is, we all have the internet and can easily find out that the only $20 tickets are in the OF in the Upper Deck.

Anything in the lower level is $100+ and closer to $200 in the infield.

Dangit Trev...I was waiting for him to be smart enough to figure that out!!! :lol:

 

[Sly]

Does it matter what the Yankees spend when teams like the Rays go to the World Series?

Exactly!!!

And on top of that, what do people not get that it takes more than the owners and commissioner to put a Salary cap in place...

...in fact, it also takes agreement by the PLAYERS UNION!!! Why would the players want a cap when they're getting these ridiculous salaries from teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. The MLB will need to make some serious sacrifices for the MLBPA to agree to it.

Frankly, I don't care. It sucks to see all the top players go to one team, but until that team wins the World Series year after year, I don't care. I mean hell, spending money means nothing...look at the Mariners last year...$100M+, 100+ losses.

And in reality, maybe all these other teams need to step up and spend some money on players. The Steinbrenner's are not the only ones with money...just some owners don't care to put the money into their teams. They'd rather pocket it and say, "eh, go spend $50M on the team, I'll keep the rest for myself."

Fact is this...the Yankees have the money. The Yankees are willing to spend the money. And the Yankees CAN spend the money. More power to them. Regardless last I checked, they've had the top payroll for the past 8 years and haven't won a World Series since 2000. Proof there that money doesn't always bring championships.

I don't think anyone cares about them winning a championship or not.Thats not the point of this argument.At least not for everyone.The point is this has gotten out of control.Oh...and the players union will do whatever the owners say they will because if they don't...the players themselves are the ones that will lose the money.I think your getting mixed up here hoss.The tail does not wag the dog.

First, if it's not the championship's, then what does everyone care who spends money and how much they spend?

Second, now you're suggesting something called collusion. They players union is not tied to what "owners say". They are their own union. If the owners gang up and decide to pay less than the "market value" that owners have already set, it's considered collusion, which can result in even bigger issues.

If a salary cap was that easy to implement, it would have been done a long time ago. Why would the owners not have implemented it yet to save THEM money!!?! It's not that easy.

Actually they tried and it did not work because they bowed down after a while.If they stick to their guns and forced the union to do something...then you tell me...what would happen.

The owners and the MLB will have to make sacrifices...whatever the MLBPA feels that should be. If they're willing to make those sacrifices, then yes, it'll happen. But it's not a simple, "hey, let's set a cap. Great. Done!"

I mean, what are they going to do to force the union to accept it? Shut the doors? I think the last thing baseball needs is a lock-out, and the owners and the MLB know that.

 

[TNP777]

How ironic that the Brewers are upset about the Yankees spending money, after signing CC Sabathia.
Who else is going to lead the salary cap talk? The Marlins? The Royals?
You won't see the Sox, Mets, or any other top tier teams any where near this.

Point us to the article that details the Brewers signing Sabathia. I'm pretty sure the Crew traded for him, and then the Yankees actually signed him for ridiculous money. Yes, Milwaukee had to pay part of his '08 salary, but that's not anything close to signing him.

+1 for a cap.

My point wasn't that. It was that the Brewers were interested in re-signing him, but once the Yankees put a bid in, they could not afford it.

gotcha

 

[tonyrios]

And for the record, I went to over 5 Yankee games last year, each ticket LESS than 20$. It costs me more to get to the stadium and back than buying the ticket.
It'll be the same this year.

You sure about that?

Yes, I'm sure about that. You see, the thing is, I live in New York and you don't.

The thing is, we all have the internet and can easily find out that the only $20 tickets are in the OF in the Upper Deck.

Anything in the lower level is $100+ and closer to $200 in the infield.

Have you ever been to Yankee Stadium and sat in those seats? There honestly wasn't a bad seat in Yankee stadium.
I love how all of you are so witty and certain about what you say but you don't have a clue because you have no idea what you're talking about.
But hey, keep yapping, you're probably right and I've been deceiving myself all these years.

 

[ru4scuba]

I don't think anyone cares about them winning a championship or not.Thats not the point of this argument.At least not for everyone.The point is this has gotten out of control.Oh...and the players union will do whatever the owners say they will because if they don't...the players themselves are the ones that will lose the money.I think your getting mixed up here hoss.The tail does not wag the dog.

I just don't understand why people care what they spend. The Yankees are a profitable business and the team is their product (one of many at least). Why shouldn't they reinvest in the team?

 

[KOBEARODLT]

And for the record, I went to over 5 Yankee games last year, each ticket LESS than 20$. It costs me more to get to the stadium and back than buying the ticket.
It'll be the same this year.

You sure about that?

Yes, I'm sure about that. You see, the thing is, I live in New York and you don't.

The thing is, we all have the internet and can easily find out that the only $20 tickets are in the OF in the Upper Deck.

Anything in the lower level is $100+ and closer to $200 in the infield.

Dangit Trev...I was waiting for him to be smart enough to figure that out!!! :lol:

well were ever the ticket is i would rather be far away watching the yanks instead of up close watching the astros...

 

[predatorkj]

Does it matter what the Yankees spend when teams like the Rays go to the World Series?

I would tend to argue that it does matter Chris. Yes, smaller market teams like the Rays or Rockies in recent years can have incredibly intriguing seasons. There is no doubt about that in recent years. However, doesn't the current structure make it very difficult for these teams to be successful on a long term basis?

As more of the Rays players reach free agency, what realistic chance do the Rays have of matching bids from larger market teams? Their only hope is to take the compensation picks or trade for prospects, and hope to continue their cycle of great drafting and development. I think this process is far harder to sustain over a long period of time than signing established talent. One or two bad trades or drafts can be devastating to a small market, while large markets are far less limited.

I'm not going to argue with you about small market teams needing to be smarter, because you're right. But parity does exist in the MLB based on the World Series participants over the last few years (small markets bolded). But the truth of the matter is a lot of the small market clubs are choosing to not spend their money on salary as Sly has pointed out.

2001 *Arizona Diamondbacks New York Yankees
2002 San Francisco Giants *Anaheim Angels
2003 *Florida Marlins New York Yankees
2004 St. Louis Cardinals *Boston Red Sox
2005 Houston Astros *Chicago White Sox
2006 *St. Louis Cardinals Detroit Tigers
2007 Colorado Rockies *Boston Red Sox
2008 *Philadelphia Phillies Tampa Bay Rays

I agree the smaller market teams could spend more but they cannot even touch the yankees.Not anywhere close.So its still a null point.They can't spend enough to get these players and some of your teams would inevitably have to charge an arm and a leg to try to get them.That arm and a leg would have to come from somewhere.Lets suffice it to say it would not be the owners arm and leg being sacrificed.

 

[tonyrios]

As far as I'm concerned, it's like a business with a lot of money putting investments in R & D.

 

[predatorkj]

I don't think anyone cares about them winning a championship or not.Thats not the point of this argument.At least not for everyone.The point is this has gotten out of control.Oh...and the players union will do whatever the owners say they will because if they don't...the players themselves are the ones that will lose the money.I think your getting mixed up here hoss.The tail does not wag the dog.

I just don't understand why people care what they spend. The Yankees are a profitable business and the team is their product (one of many at least). Why shouldn't they reinvest in the team?

They should.I would never argue that.But not to this degree is all I am saying.Come on.Your a logical person.Surely you could agree to that?

 

[predatorkj]

[quote="ru4scuba":1nezfzw3]Does it matter what the Yankees spend when teams like the Rays go to the World Series?

Exactly!!!

And on top of that, what do people not get that it takes more than the owners and commissioner to put a Salary cap in place...

...in fact, it also takes agreement by the PLAYERS UNION!!! Why would the players want a cap when they're getting these ridiculous salaries from teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. The MLB will need to make some serious sacrifices for the MLBPA to agree to it.

Frankly, I don't care. It sucks to see all the top players go to one team, but until that team wins the World Series year after year, I don't care. I mean hell, spending money means nothing...look at the Mariners last year...$100M+, 100+ losses.

And in reality, maybe all these other teams need to step up and spend some money on players. The Steinbrenner's are not the only ones with money...just some owners don't care to put the money into their teams. They'd rather pocket it and say, "eh, go spend $50M on the team, I'll keep the rest for myself."

Fact is this...the Yankees have the money. The Yankees are willing to spend the money. And the Yankees CAN spend the money. More power to them. Regardless last I checked, they've had the top payroll for the past 8 years and haven't won a World Series since 2000. Proof there that money doesn't always bring championships.

I don't think anyone cares about them winning a championship or not.Thats not the point of this argument.At least not for everyone.The point is this has gotten out of control.Oh...and the players union will do whatever the owners say they will because if they don't...the players themselves are the ones that will lose the money.I think your getting mixed up here hoss.The tail does not wag the dog.

First, if it's not the championship's, then what does everyone care who spends money and how much they spend?

Second, now you're suggesting something called collusion. They players union is not tied to what "owners say". They are their own union. If the owners gang up and decide to pay less than the "market value" that owners have already set, it's considered collusion, which can result in even bigger issues.

If a salary cap was that easy to implement, it would have been done a long time ago. Why would the owners not have implemented it yet to save THEM money!!?! It's not that easy.

Actually they tried and it did not work because they bowed down after a while.If they stick to their guns and forced the union to do something...then you tell me...what would happen.

The owners and the MLB will have to make sacrifices...whatever the MLBPA feels that should be. If they're willing to make those sacrifices, then yes, it'll happen. But it's not a simple, "hey, let's set a cap. Great. Done!"

I mean, what are they going to do to force the union to accept it? Shut the doors? I think the last thing baseball needs is a lock-out, and the owners and the MLB know that.[/quote:1nezfzw3]


If a lockout is what it takes...I as a baseball fan would be all for it.I am sure the owners would do so also if they felt it would really change things.Especially since they would know that it might help them acquire more players that are of all star caliber and would thereby increase ticket sales and whatnot.

 

[tonyrios]

[quote="Sly":3nyi1miw][quote="ru4scuba":3nyi1miw]Does it matter what the Yankees spend when teams like the Rays go to the World Series?

Exactly!!!

And on top of that, what do people not get that it takes more than the owners and commissioner to put a Salary cap in place...

...in fact, it also takes agreement by the PLAYERS UNION!!! Why would the players want a cap when they're getting these ridiculous salaries from teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. The MLB will need to make some serious sacrifices for the MLBPA to agree to it.

Frankly, I don't care. It sucks to see all the top players go to one team, but until that team wins the World Series year after year, I don't care. I mean hell, spending money means nothing...look at the Mariners last year...$100M+, 100+ losses.

And in reality, maybe all these other teams need to step up and spend some money on players. The Steinbrenner's are not the only ones with money...just some owners don't care to put the money into their teams. They'd rather pocket it and say, "eh, go spend $50M on the team, I'll keep the rest for myself."

Fact is this...the Yankees have the money. The Yankees are willing to spend the money. And the Yankees CAN spend the money. More power to them. Regardless last I checked, they've had the top payroll for the past 8 years and haven't won a World Series since 2000. Proof there that money doesn't always bring championships.

I don't think anyone cares about them winning a championship or not.Thats not the point of this argument.At least not for everyone.The point is this has gotten out of control.Oh...and the players union will do whatever the owners say they will because if they don't...the players themselves are the ones that will lose the money.I think your getting mixed up here hoss.The tail does not wag the dog.

First, if it's not the championship's, then what does everyone care who spends money and how much they spend?

Second, now you're suggesting something called collusion. They players union is not tied to what "owners say". They are their own union. If the owners gang up and decide to pay less than the "market value" that owners have already set, it's considered collusion, which can result in even bigger issues.

If a salary cap was that easy to implement, it would have been done a long time ago. Why would the owners not have implemented it yet to save THEM money!!?! It's not that easy.

Actually they tried and it did not work because they bowed down after a while.If they stick to their guns and forced the union to do something...then you tell me...what would happen.

The owners and the MLB will have to make sacrifices...whatever the MLBPA feels that should be. If they're willing to make those sacrifices, then yes, it'll happen. But it's not a simple, "hey, let's set a cap. Great. Done!"

I mean, what are they going to do to force the union to accept it? Shut the doors? I think the last thing baseball needs is a lock-out, and the owners and the MLB know that.[/quote:3nyi1miw]


If a lockout is what it takes...I as a baseball fan would be all for it.I am sure the owners would do so also if they felt it would really change things.Especially since they would know that it might help them acquire more players that are of all star caliber and would thereby increase ticket sales and whatnot.[/quote:3nyi1miw]

If you're a fan of baseball you should not be in favor of a lockout. It took steroids to get baseball back on the map after the last lock out...

 

[predatorkj]

[quote="tonyrios":3ucjzm3h]And for the record, I went to over 5 Yankee games last year, each ticket LESS than 20$. It costs me more to get to the stadium and back than buying the ticket.
It'll be the same this year.

You sure about that?

Yes, I'm sure about that. You see, the thing is, I live in New York and you don't.

The thing is, we all have the internet and can easily find out that the only $20 tickets are in the OF in the Upper Deck.

Anything in the lower level is $100+ and closer to $200 in the infield.

Dangit Trev...I was waiting for him to be smart enough to figure that out!!! :lol:

well were ever the ticket is i would rather be far away watching the yanks instead of up close watching the astros...[/quote:3ucjzm3h]


See...there is no call for that.I never even said I wouldn't like to go to a yankees game.Why are you trying to turn this into a debate about my team.Thats pretty trollish buddy.

 

[Sly]

I don't think anyone cares about them winning a championship or not.Thats not the point of this argument.At least not for everyone.The point is this has gotten out of control.Oh...and the players union will do whatever the owners say they will because if they don't...the players themselves are the ones that will lose the money.I think your getting mixed up here hoss.The tail does not wag the dog.

I just don't understand why people care what they spend. The Yankees are a profitable business and the team is their product (one of many at least). Why shouldn't they reinvest in the team?

They should.I would never argue that.But not to this degree is all I am saying.Come on.Your a logical person.Surely you could agree to that?

To "what" degree? It is THEIR money, and they are willing to spend it. It's no different than Microsoft spending their money to improve Windows, or for any other company to improve their product. And you use the money that is at their disposal to do so.

This is marketing at it's finest.

Anyone who knows anything about business can understand this. If it backfires on them, and they don't win the World Series, they to them that's a failure...but guess what in the end, the fans will sell out every game, they will bring in a crapload of money.

From a fiscal-front, it'll be a win. This is a business.

I'm not understanding what this "degree" is that they're spending THEIR money that is wrong.

 

[predatorkj]

[quote="predatorkj":2kuoroe9][quote="Sly":2kuoroe9][quote="ru4scuba":2kuoroe9]Does it matter what the Yankees spend when teams like the Rays go to the World Series?

Exactly!!!

And on top of that, what do people not get that it takes more than the owners and commissioner to put a Salary cap in place...

...in fact, it also takes agreement by the PLAYERS UNION!!! Why would the players want a cap when they're getting these ridiculous salaries from teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. The MLB will need to make some serious sacrifices for the MLBPA to agree to it.

Frankly, I don't care. It sucks to see all the top players go to one team, but until that team wins the World Series year after year, I don't care. I mean hell, spending money means nothing...look at the Mariners last year...$100M+, 100+ losses.

And in reality, maybe all these other teams need to step up and spend some money on players. The Steinbrenner's are not the only ones with money...just some owners don't care to put the money into their teams. They'd rather pocket it and say, "eh, go spend $50M on the team, I'll keep the rest for myself."

Fact is this...the Yankees have the money. The Yankees are willing to spend the money. And the Yankees CAN spend the money. More power to them. Regardless last I checked, they've had the top payroll for the past 8 years and haven't won a World Series since 2000. Proof there that money doesn't always bring championships.

I don't think anyone cares about them winning a championship or not.Thats not the point of this argument.At least not for everyone.The point is this has gotten out of control.Oh...and the players union will do whatever the owners say they will because if they don't...the players themselves are the ones that will lose the money.I think your getting mixed up here hoss.The tail does not wag the dog.

First, if it's not the championship's, then what does everyone care who spends money and how much they spend?

Second, now you're suggesting something called collusion. They players union is not tied to what "owners say". They are their own union. If the owners gang up and decide to pay less than the "market value" that owners have already set, it's considered collusion, which can result in even bigger issues.

If a salary cap was that easy to implement, it would have been done a long time ago. Why would the owners not have implemented it yet to save THEM money!!?! It's not that easy.

Actually they tried and it did not work because they bowed down after a while.If they stick to their guns and forced the union to do something...then you tell me...what would happen.

The owners and the MLB will have to make sacrifices...whatever the MLBPA feels that should be. If they're willing to make those sacrifices, then yes, it'll happen. But it's not a simple, "hey, let's set a cap. Great. Done!"

I mean, what are they going to do to force the union to accept it? Shut the doors? I think the last thing baseball needs is a lock-out, and the owners and the MLB know that.[/quote:2kuoroe9]


If a lockout is what it takes...I as a baseball fan would be all for it.I am sure the owners would do so also if they felt it would really change things.Especially since they would know that it might help them acquire more players that are of all star caliber and would thereby increase ticket sales and whatnot.[/quote:2kuoroe9]

If you're a fan of baseball you should not be in favor of a lockout. It took steroids to get baseball back on the map after the last lock out...[/quote:2kuoroe9]


Well if things keep going the way they are...it may take cheaper ticket prices to get baseball back on the map if a lockout does indeed occur.

 

[KOBEARODLT]

[quote="predatorkj":3s1n4a0c][quote="tonyrios":3s1n4a0c]And for the record, I went to over 5 Yankee games last year, each ticket LESS than 20$. It costs me more to get to the stadium and back than buying the ticket.
It'll be the same this year.

You sure about that?

Yes, I'm sure about that. You see, the thing is, I live in New York and you don't.

The thing is, we all have the internet and can easily find out that the only $20 tickets are in the OF in the Upper Deck.

Anything in the lower level is $100+ and closer to $200 in the infield.

Dangit Trev...I was waiting for him to be smart enough to figure that out!!! :lol:

well were ever the ticket is i would rather be far away watching the yanks instead of up close watching the astros...[/quote:3s1n4a0c]


See...there is no call for that.I never even said I wouldn't like to go to a yankees game.Why are you trying to turn this into a debate about my team.Thats pretty trollish buddy.[/quote:3s1n4a0c]

no not trollish, you are just stating your point on how you dont think its fair that the yankees are spending that kind of money and im just stating my point i would rather pay more to watch the yankees instead of the astros...

 

[Sly]

If a lockout is what it takes...I as a baseball fan would be all for it.I am sure the owners would do so also if they felt it would really change things.Especially since they would know that it might help them acquire more players that are of all star caliber and would thereby increase ticket sales and whatnot.

You may accept it, but a LOT of fans would not.

A strike or lock-out would DESTROY baseball at this point.

 

[predatorkj]

I don't think anyone cares about them winning a championship or not.Thats not the point of this argument.At least not for everyone.The point is this has gotten out of control.Oh...and the players union will do whatever the owners say they will because if they don't...the players themselves are the ones that will lose the money.I think your getting mixed up here hoss.The tail does not wag the dog.

I just don't understand why people care what they spend. The Yankees are a profitable business and the team is their product (one of many at least). Why shouldn't they reinvest in the team?

They should.I would never argue that.But not to this degree is all I am saying.Come on.Your a logical person.Surely you could agree to that?

To "what" degree? It is THEIR money, and they are willing to spend it. It's no different than Microsoft spending their money to improve Windows, or for any other company to improve their product. And you use the money that is at their disposal to do so.

This is marketing at it's finest.

Anyone who knows anything about business can understand this. If it backfires on them, and they don't win the World Series, they to them that's a failure...but guess what in the end, the fans will sell out every game, they will bring in a crapload of money.

From a fiscal-front, it'll be a win. This is a business.

I'm not understanding what this "degree" is that they're spending THEIR money that is wrong.

Eh...I give up.This is exactly the kind of thinking that got the economy in the mess its in.The part about passing down increasing costs anyway.If they end up charging more and the players keep making more in leaps and bounds...this will collapse.Smart business?Yeah right.Its called stupidity.

 

[predatorkj]

[quote="tonyrios":muc04stz][quote="predatorkj":muc04stz][quote="tonyrios":muc04stz]And for the record, I went to over 5 Yankee games last year, each ticket LESS than 20$. It costs me more to get to the stadium and back than buying the ticket.
It'll be the same this year.

You sure about that?

Yes, I'm sure about that. You see, the thing is, I live in New York and you don't.

The thing is, we all have the internet and can easily find out that the only $20 tickets are in the OF in the Upper Deck.

Anything in the lower level is $100+ and closer to $200 in the infield.

Dangit Trev...I was waiting for him to be smart enough to figure that out!!! :lol:

well were ever the ticket is i would rather be far away watching the yanks instead of up close watching the astros...[/quote:muc04stz]


See...there is no call for that.I never even said I wouldn't like to go to a yankees game.Why are you trying to turn this into a debate about my team.Thats pretty trollish buddy.[/quote:muc04stz]

no not trollish, you are just stating your point on how you dont think its fair that the yankees are spending that kind of money and im just stating my point i would rather pay more to watch the yankees instead of the astros...[/quote:muc04stz]


Actually I don't think its smart.Not anything else.Just not smart.

As for the astros comment.You were being a smartass.Plain and simple.