Rangers get rights to Darvish

[Wes]

[quote="Joshua.Roundtree":1t6o905t]Asian guy is upset because everyone points out that only TWO Asian players out of the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is? Good, neither does El Guapo") that have come stateside have had All-star level success. It's not racist, it's just fact at this point. But just like 90% of the banter on this board, it's all speculation at this point. Let's wait to judge him once he actually gets on the field against MLB players.

Actually, me being Asian has nothing to do with it. I'm more irritated that a bunch of bullies hiding behind computer screens think that it's okay or even intelligent to belittle a player based on a racially based evaluation. I'd be saying the same things if you or anyone else was chalking up Cespedes as an automatic failure because he's Cuban, Bryce Harper because he's white, Anthony Gose because he's black or Jesus Montero because he's Venezuelan.

Not only is it insulting to people of intelligence - regardless of their race - it's insulting to scouts and talent evaluation in general, from those within the Rangers organization to those in the media. How many of the ignorant comments in this thread, including yours, are made by people who have never even seen the guy pitch beyond a few internet highlight clips? Show some actual intelligence and evaluate someone based on what they are and what they've done - not what color their skin is or where they were born.

Wow really?

No one said a word about race and race was on no one's mind until YOU brought it into this thread; and now you're saying that everyone's comments in this thread are ignorant because they're judging based on color of the player's skin and where they were born? No one did that at all.

People are comparing Darvish to other foreign players because he too is a foreign player. How on earth is that racist?

The specific comparison is to Asian players who have come over to America. Darvish IS an Asian player coming over to America. How on earth is that racist? Isn't that the obvious comparison to make? Sure seems like it to me.


So by your logic, anyone who compares Darvish to a former Asian player coming to the MLB is an ignorant racist. What an idiotic claim to make. If that's how you truly feel, then YOU, my friend, are the ignorant one in this thread.


I lost a lot of respect for you after reading your posts here.

Of course it's the obvious comparison. The point is that it's irrelevant and stupid.

Does me telling you that Yu Darvish is half Iranian and half Japanese tell you ANYTHING about how good he is as a pitcher? If you think that the answer to that is yes, then you have some looking in the mirror to do.

It's one thing to say, "hey how does Darvish's performance in NPB compare to Matsuzaka's." It's another to say, "oh he's Japanese? He'll be another bust like Irabu." I hope that you can see the difference in the motivations behind those statements. The latter is essentially saying, "you're going to be bad at something because you're the same race as someone else who was bad at it," - that's racist.

Actually it's not racist what people are saying. If someone brought up Hank Conger or Shane Komine as a example of a failed player to compare him too than that could be perceived as racist as they are American Asians. What EVERYONE is saying for the most part is that the players that come from Asian countries either through posting or FA signings have not lived up to their contracts.

Its actually more of a xenophobia or nationalistic but not racist as by definition more than one race was brought up and the only thing consistent was the countries not race being used as examples.[/quote:1t6o905t]

I'm done picking semantics - I've only quoted you as you're the last person to post, so don't take this as a personal affront. I'll leave my point as this:

If one your criteria for evaluation of a player - in this case Darvish - is race, and you make statements based on that judgement, then you're making racist statements.

If not, what I've said does not apply to you. You decide which camp you're in.

 

[NECpilgrims8]

Can we end this craziness?

Pick one and move on.

WE SHOULD ALL CELEBRATE DARVISH AND BE HAPPY HE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME PITCH IN THE MLB!

 

[gonzagacubs]

Asian born players, not named Ichiro, have not fared very well in the Majors. Sure, some had some moderate success, but nothing really to write home about. Pitchers especially have had some tough times adjusting to the majors. Most of this is due to the fact that they use a different sized baseball over there. I think it would be difficult to have to learn how to throw with a larger baseball after you have spent years throwing a smaller baseball in a professional league. Sure, Darvish could turn out to be great, but he could also really bomb like others who had come over before him. Really need to see him pitch here in the US before anything can be determined in my opinion.

 

[Jared]

[quote="sports-vault":x75ms6x1]Its not about race! i dont care if the guy came from the Slovakian League or the Greek League! The bottom line is that players from Japan have not fared well in MLB!!! Its not rocket science! Yes, some of the players noted do make valuable utility infielders or 7th or 8th inning relievers but to warrant a financial commitment of 5 years and say 125 Million or so is utterly ridiculous and NOT responsible!!! Most people are NOT knocking the player but are knocking the 52 million to negotiate and the other 75 million or so to sign. I wouldnt knock Darvish if he were to sign a 5 year 45-50 million contract. I think most people including myself think that the Rangers grossly overpaid for a guy who comes from a League in Japan that is far inferior to major league baseball! Look at the players from MLB that have become mega stars in japan. Bottom Line- Price was ridiculously exorbitant!!!!

Bottom line, Rangers spent more than the Rays PAYROLL to negotiate with a player, good for them......

Japan League, making superstars out of Orestes Destrada, Tuffy Rhodes, and Colby Lewis since 1988... When Scott Mathieson becomes Roger Clemens next season, you'll know why.

The California Penal League has produced better MLBers..... :mrgreen:

Since this thread has become such a hot topic...........FREE Yu Darvish Bowman WBC RC to the first person to post what movie the quote from my previous post came from.[/quote:x75ms6x1]

Major League..great movie!

 

[All The Hype]

[quote="Joshua.Roundtree":1n6ph3gr]Asian guy is upset because everyone points out that only TWO Asian players out of the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is? Good, neither does El Guapo") that have come stateside have had All-star level success. It's not racist, it's just fact at this point. But just like 90% of the banter on this board, it's all speculation at this point. Let's wait to judge him once he actually gets on the field against MLB players.

Actually, me being Asian has nothing to do with it. I'm more irritated that a bunch of bullies hiding behind computer screens think that it's okay or even intelligent to belittle a player based on a racially based evaluation. I'd be saying the same things if you or anyone else was chalking up Cespedes as an automatic failure because he's Cuban, Bryce Harper because he's white, Anthony Gose because he's black or Jesus Montero because he's Venezuelan.

Not only is it insulting to people of intelligence - regardless of their race - it's insulting to scouts and talent evaluation in general, from those within the Rangers organization to those in the media. How many of the ignorant comments in this thread, including yours, are made by people who have never even seen the guy pitch beyond a few internet highlight clips? Show some actual intelligence and evaluate someone based on what they are and what they've done - not what color their skin is or where they were born.

Wow really?

No one said a word about race and race was on no one's mind until YOU brought it into this thread; and now you're saying that everyone's comments in this thread are ignorant because they're judging based on color of the player's skin and where they were born? No one did that at all.

People are comparing Darvish to other foreign players because he too is a foreign player. How on earth is that racist?

The specific comparison is to Asian players who have come over to America. Darvish IS an Asian player coming over to America. How on earth is that racist? Isn't that the obvious comparison to make? Sure seems like it to me.


So by your logic, anyone who compares Darvish to a former Asian player coming to the MLB is an ignorant racist. What an idiotic claim to make. If that's how you truly feel, then YOU, my friend, are the ignorant one in this thread.


I lost a lot of respect for you after reading your posts here.

Of course it's the obvious comparison. The point is that it's irrelevant and stupid.

Does me telling you that Yu Darvish is half Iranian and half Japanese tell you ANYTHING about how good he is as a pitcher? If you think that the answer to that is yes, then you have some looking in the mirror to do.

It's one thing to say, "hey how does Darvish's performance in NPB compare to Matsuzaka's." It's another to say, "oh he's Japanese? He'll be another bust like Irabu." I hope that you can see the difference in the motivations behind those statements. The latter is essentially saying, "you're going to be bad at something because you're the same race as someone else who was bad at it," - that's racist.[/quote:1n6ph3gr]


I won't drag this on beyond this post since it really is off the topic of this thread, but just to clarify- I agree with what you said above, but that's not what people were saying. People were saying that so far, most players who have been successful in foreign baseball leagues have not lived up to expectations in the US. To call this racist is unnecessary and pretty silly in my opinion, because it's simply comparing a heavily hyped foreign player to other heavily hyped foreign players.

It has nothing to do with race, it's simply comparing players from non-MLB competition, which may or may not be fair, but it is not racist in any way.

 

[justinmandawg]

I think Darvish will be better in the MLB than Todd Blackledge.

 

[JustinVerlander35]

Holy Sh*t!

Who would of thought that this thread would start all this crap. lol

 

[JoshHamilton]

I completely understand Wes' (over)reaction. 

Judge people on who they are. Not by race, creed, religion, league they played in, or whatever. 

Darvish looks like a total badass. I hope he is, since I'm a Rangers fan. 

Stop using previous players as comparisons to predict what will happen in the future. It's ******* stupid. And that transcends race, professional league, and everything else

 

[nosterbor]

Comments like this are ridiculous and borderline racist. Not only does it make you look foolish for having a lack of historical knowledge, as there have been plenty of successful players from Asia, it also spits in the face of the scouting community.

any body remember chan ho park??????

I guess we can see a younger version of Irabu.

I am sure they will sign Yu and it'll be the Daiske scenario all over again

People questioning whether this was a good idea or if he will fail are not racist or stupid, they have merit, fact and logic behind them.

In scouting they lump high school and college players together due to the similar competition they face and how that affects the ability to predict them to the ML level, well Darvish plays in a league that has had recent pitchers struggle to have lengthy and productive careers at the ML level. It would be logical for someone to make the argument that there is a risk and history of players in this league not being able to perform at their contract amount.

Also scouting does not take into account a players ability to handle new parks, time away from home and language barriers. I think those are also part of the risk one must factor in.

People in Texas should have some degree of skepticism on this signing as it does have risk, but so do all signings be it minor league or drafting. The thing that makes this one much more risky is obviously the 100+ million dollars tied up in this player.

Skepticism is one thing, but comparisons to failed Asian players simply because they too were Asian is racist. I didn't see you or anybody else saying that the CJ Wilson signing was a mistake because he, like Barry Zito, was a white, left handed pitcher who pitched in the AL West - in fact that comparison is even more apt given their similarities ON THE FIELD, which are greater than the similarities of Matsuzaka, Irabu or Park and Darvish.

Comments like this are ridiculous and borderline racist. Not only does it make you look foolish for having a lack of historical knowledge, as there have been plenty of successful players from Asia, it also spits in the face of the scouting community.

any body remember chan ho park??????

I guess we can see a younger version of Irabu.

I am sure they will sign Yu and it'll be the Daiske scenario all over again

Those comments are borderline racist? Really?

Those statements have nothing to do with race. Is it borderline racist when a toolsy African American outfielder gets taken in the draft (Reggie Golden as an example), and people compare him to previously failed or under-performing African American toolsy outfielders? The answer IMO is no. I'm all for calling people out who make racist remarks-because they should be called out-but your post is as wrong as what you are accusing these people of doing.

Yes, yes it is. When I evaluate players, I do so on their performance and skills, race is not a factor.

Comments like this are ridiculous and borderline racist. Not only does it make you look foolish for having a lack of historical knowledge, as there have been plenty of successful players from Asia, it also spits in the face of the scouting community.

any body remember chan ho park??????

He obviously fears about spending over $100 million on a pitcher, when the Rangers haven't fared well with bringing in pitchers with big contracts. The Chan Ho Park contract was a disaster for the Rangers.

I guess we can see a younger version of Irabu.

I am sure they will sign Yu and it'll be the Daiske scenario all over again

These are ignorant statements, sure, but not racist. It has nothing to do with the race of the player, Wes. It has everything to do with the situation - which is how much the Red Sox/Rangers paid just to negotiate with Dice-K/Darvish. It's no different than me saying (if the Orioles were to sign Prince Fielder) "I am sure they will sign Prince and it'll be the Albert Belle scenario all over again" An ignorant comment, but not racist.

Racist....really? There is nothing racist about anything anyone said above. I've added how I interpreted what they said below each quote...

Racist is such a touchy word, we all shouldn't use it to label actions or statements so easily.

I agree, they're definitely ignorant - and based in racism. What else would motivate otherwise ridiculous (in a baseball skill evaluation) comparisons such as those listed above?

Signing Fielder would have been a better deal. 50 Mil+ just to have the Rights?

What a waste of payroll.
I can count on ONE finger how many Japanese players have turned out to be worth the signing.

Hideki Matsui? Kaz Sasaki? Hiroki Kuroda? Hideo Nomo? Ichiro? Uehara? Okajima? Shingo Takatsu? Aki Iwamura?

Good thing you're not a GM or a scout.

Ichiro is the only player in that group that has not sucked long term. what the hell games have you been watching?

And how is it that an outfielder from the Cubs could not do squat goes to Japan and breaks the hit record? The pitching in Japan SUCKS!
P.S
This could come back and bite the Rangers in the ass big time.

 

[SamHell]

Huge risk but Darvish doesn't fit the traditional mold of Asian import pitcher(size, repertoire) so hopefully it works out. Really weird seeing the Rangers play with the big boys in the payroll department.

 

[morgoth]

I completely understand Wes' (over)reaction. 

Judge people on who they are. Not by race, creed, religion, league they played in, or whatever. 

Darvish looks like a total badass. I hope he is, since I'm a Rangers fan. 

Stop using previous players as comparisons to predict what will happen in the future. It's fracking stupid. And that transcends race, professional league, and everything else

You do realize that this is the exact thing ML scouts do to try and predict what a prospect will do in the future right? You know compare his skill set at the same age to a similar player's skill sets that went on to do well or flamed out.

You do know also that teams like the A's quit drafting high school pitchers due to the competition differences they faced and how hard it was to predict future success, all due to the competition or LEAGUE the players were in.

 

[braden]

Hideki Matsui? Kaz Sasaki? Hiroki Kuroda? Hideo Nomo? Ichiro? Uehara? Okajima? Shingo Takatsu? Aki Iwamura?

Ichiro is the only player in that group that has not sucked long term. what the hell games have you been watching?

And how is it that an outfielder from the Cubs could not do squat goes to Japan and breaks the hit record? The pitching in Japan SUCKS!
P.S
This could come back and bite the Rangers in the ass big time.

Are you nuts?

Hideki Matsui- 120 OPS+ in 9 years
Hiroki Kuroda- 114 ERA+ for his career
Hideo Nomo- 6 above average seasons. 20+ WAR for his career
Koji Uehara- dominant reliever for past two years

I'm not debating the success rate of Japanese League imports simply pointing out that your assertion that only Ichiro hasn't "sucked" long terms is idiotic.

 

[James52411]

To my mind, the question isn't whether a Japanese player can succeed. Of course he can. The question is whether it is wise to spend $100 million overall and $20 million per year on a player of any stripe who has no MLB experience, based on scouts projections and performance against inferior competition. You can sign Roy Halladay for that kind of money, so I'd say that the answer is clearly no.

 

[Ty Hope]

The popular opinion over here in Japan is that he is not going to perform anywhere near expectations. At least that is what guys at work and guys at the card shop have been saying. I agree, but do hope I'm wrong. He is very good. Just not sure how he will transition into the Majors.

 

[James52411]

The popular opinion over here in Japan is that he is not going to perform anywhere near expectations. At least that is what guys at work and guys at the card shop have been saying. I agree, but do hope I'm wrong. He is very good. Just not sure how he will transition into the Majors.

Even the Japanese are racist against the Japanese!

 

[Ty Hope]

The popular opinion over here in Japan is that he is not going to perform anywhere near expectations. At least that is what guys at work and guys at the card shop have been saying. I agree, but do hope I'm wrong. He is very good. Just not sure how he will transition into the Majors.

Even the Japanese are racist against the Japanese!

:lol:

Nah, they just saw what happened to Matsuzaka, that's all.

 

[nosterbor]

Hideki Matsui? Kaz Sasaki? Hiroki Kuroda? Hideo Nomo? Ichiro? Uehara? Okajima? Shingo Takatsu? Aki Iwamura?

Ichiro is the only player in that group that has not sucked long term. what the hell games have you been watching?

And how is it that an outfielder from the Cubs could not do squat goes to Japan and breaks the hit record? The pitching in Japan SUCKS!
P.S
This could come back and bite the Rangers in the ass big time.

Are you nuts?

Hideki Matsui- 120 OPS+ in 9 years
Hiroki Kuroda- 114 ERA+ for his career
Hideo Nomo- 6 above average seasons. 20+ WAR for his career
Koji Uehara- dominant reliever for past two years

I'm not debating the success rate of Japanese League imports simply pointing out that your assertion that only Ichiro hasn't "sucked" long terms is idiotic.

"Hideki Matsui- 120 OPS+ in 9 years
Hiroki Kuroda- 114 ERA+ for his career "

I would say those numbers suck ass
a 114 era

 

[justinmandawg]

Hideki Matsui? Kaz Sasaki? Hiroki Kuroda? Hideo Nomo? Ichiro? Uehara? Okajima? Shingo Takatsu? Aki Iwamura?

Ichiro is the only player in that group that has not sucked long term. what the hell games have you been watching?

And how is it that an outfielder from the Cubs could not do squat goes to Japan and breaks the hit record? The pitching in Japan SUCKS!
P.S
This could come back and bite the Rangers in the ass big time.

Are you nuts?

Hideki Matsui- 120 OPS+ in 9 years
Hiroki Kuroda- 114 ERA+ for his career
Hideo Nomo- 6 above average seasons. 20+ WAR for his career
Koji Uehara- dominant reliever for past two years

I'm not debating the success rate of Japanese League imports simply pointing out that your assertion that only Ichiro hasn't "sucked" long terms is idiotic.

"Hideki Matsui- 120 OPS+ in 9 years
Hiroki Kuroda- 114 ERA+ for his career "

I would say those numbers suck ass
a 114 era

The Royals could use that to beef up their starters.

 

[Wes]

Hideki Matsui? Kaz Sasaki? Hiroki Kuroda? Hideo Nomo? Ichiro? Uehara? Okajima? Shingo Takatsu? Aki Iwamura?

Ichiro is the only player in that group that has not sucked long term. what the hell games have you been watching?

And how is it that an outfielder from the Cubs could not do squat goes to Japan and breaks the hit record? The pitching in Japan SUCKS!
P.S
This could come back and bite the Rangers in the ass big time.

Are you nuts?

Hideki Matsui- 120 OPS+ in 9 years
Hiroki Kuroda- 114 ERA+ for his career
Hideo Nomo- 6 above average seasons. 20+ WAR for his career
Koji Uehara- dominant reliever for past two years

I'm not debating the success rate of Japanese League imports simply pointing out that your assertion that only Ichiro hasn't "sucked" long terms is idiotic.

"Hideki Matsui- 120 OPS+ in 9 years
Hiroki Kuroda- 114 ERA+ for his career "

I would say those numbers suck ass
a 114 era

::facepalm::

 

[Lancemountain]

Hideki Matsui? Kaz Sasaki? Hiroki Kuroda? Hideo Nomo? Ichiro? Uehara? Okajima? Shingo Takatsu? Aki Iwamura?

Ichiro is the only player in that group that has not sucked long term. what the hell games have you been watching?

And how is it that an outfielder from the Cubs could not do squat goes to Japan and breaks the hit record? The pitching in Japan SUCKS!
P.S
This could come back and bite the Rangers in the ass big time.

Are you nuts?

Hideki Matsui- 120 OPS+ in 9 years
Hiroki Kuroda- 114 ERA+ for his career
Hideo Nomo- 6 above average seasons. 20+ WAR for his career
Koji Uehara- dominant reliever for past two years

I'm not debating the success rate of Japanese League imports simply pointing out that your assertion that only Ichiro hasn't "sucked" long terms is idiotic.

"Hideki Matsui- 120 OPS+ in 9 years
Hiroki Kuroda- 114 ERA+ for his career "

I would say those numbers suck ass
a 114 era

::facepalm::

yeah that nosterbor post was brutal to watch, but so was braden calling Uehara "dominant" :shock: :arrow: ::facepalm::