razor metal base have hit ebay

[jdfoxtrot79]

Im sure if Ebay had a proper search function I could. However, your statement leads to the homerism effect this site has for Razor. To be honest, I have nothing against them and I think their product looks nice. However, the situation of the mods and admins on this site constantly giving them a reach around effect dosent help them out at all. Trying to stiffel people from pointing out flaws will not help them out. The simple fact remains that most people have not heard of Razor. I only heard of them because of poker cards and thus led to me learning about baseball cards. However, I did not learn this from their website. I was one of the people who stumbled onto their site and was not given hardly any information as to what they are about. I learned from this specific site and no where else on the internet. Their sales in my opinion and to most of the people who have seen the sales of the Oval Office, are falling short of expected pricing. In my opinion the sites admins/mods/complete razor followers, are doing a disservice to Razor by constantly telling them they are doing everything right and nothing is wrong.

Thats not totally true, as of late they have been extremely critical of them. But a few months ago you would be 1000000000000% correct.

Haha really... 1 trillion percent???? :lol: :lol:

 

[masonphillip]

Im sure if Ebay had a proper search function I could. However, your statement leads to the homerism effect this site has for Razor. To be honest, I have nothing against them and I think their product looks nice. However, the situation of the mods and admins on this site constantly giving them a reach around effect dosent help them out at all. Trying to stiffel people from pointing out flaws will not help them out. The simple fact remains that most people have not heard of Razor. I only heard of them because of poker cards and thus led to me learning about baseball cards. However, I did not learn this from their website. I was one of the people who stumbled onto their site and was not given hardly any information as to what they are about. I learned from this specific site and no where else on the internet. Their sales in my opinion and to most of the people who have seen the sales of the Oval Office, are falling short of expected pricing. In my opinion the sites admins/mods/complete razor followers, are doing a disservice to Razor by constantly telling them they are doing everything right and nothing is wrong.

You are reading much too far into my statement. I was asking for examples simply for the reason that I believe it is far too easy to say "sales have been dissapointing" and not qualify why or give examples of dissapointing sales. If it is a fair statement then fine but saying it without evidence is just making an assumption. To go even further, calling me a homer for asking for evidence is worse. I've been very critical of Razor's recent moves with Chrome cards as have many other mods, so don't overblow the homerism thing.

By the way, here's an example I found.

[ebay:3u6bfvnx]290295823437[/ebay:3u6bfvnx] - Tyler Razor - $1,010
[ebay:3u6bfvnx]110353026199[/ebay:3u6bfvnx] - Tyler Topps - $565

Now maybe there are examples of bad sales out there, I just would like to see them.

 

[kentuckyderby]

agree with nyc3

actually, mace is right about the Razor oval office too
they, Razor pres sigs, seem to be selling better than non Razor pres sigs
(although not selling for what many predicted)

 

[nyc3]

Haha really... 1 trillion percent???? :lol: :lol:

I cut it down, didnt want to bore you with zeros :lol:

 

[Kutzy]

Im sure if Ebay had a proper search function I could. However, your statement leads to the homerism effect this site has for Razor. To be honest, I have nothing against them and I think their product looks nice. However, the situation of the mods and admins on this site constantly giving them a reach around effect dosent help them out at all. Trying to stiffel people from pointing out flaws will not help them out. The simple fact remains that most people have not heard of Razor. I only heard of them because of poker cards and thus led to me learning about baseball cards. However, I did not learn this from their website. I was one of the people who stumbled onto their site and was not given hardly any information as to what they are about. I learned from this specific site and no where else on the internet. Their sales in my opinion and to most of the people who have seen the sales of the Oval Office, are falling short of expected pricing. In my opinion the sites admins/mods/complete razor followers, are doing a disservice to Razor by constantly telling them they are doing everything right and nothing is wrong.

You are reading much too far into my statement. I was asking for examples simply for the reason that I believe it is far too easy to say "sales have been dissapointing" and not qualify why or give examples of dissapointing sales. If it is a fair statement then fine but saying it without evidence is just making an assumption. To go even further, calling me a homer for asking for evidence is worse. I've been very critical of Razor's recent moves with Chrome cards as have many other mods, so don't overblow the homerism thing.

By the way, here's an example I found.

[ebaywgv7evq]290295823437[/ebaywgv7evq] - Tyler Razor - $1,010
[ebaywgv7evq]110353026199[/ebaywgv7evq] - Tyler Topps - $565

Now maybe there are examples of bad sales out there, I just would like to see them.

You have to look at price vs. cost. Same thing for Exquisite autos Vs. Base Topps auto of the same numbering. Tyler Razor auto came from a ~$2000/card product. Tyler Topps Auto came from a ~$2/pack product. Profit potential is a bigger factor than ending prices. As I stated in another thread, the fact that the HIGHEST possible profit margin from a 1 of a kind collectable is only about 6 times your investment shows that Razor has not taken off, or it just shows their product was way over priced. Even if you went off of the $1500 intial sell sheet, 10 times profit margin from such a card is still quite horrible. Maybe I havent seen the places where the "Blue and Red" names have been critical, but I have seen alot of them where they are being unjustly nice to Razor. Im sure thats there to protect an investment, but I dont think it helps the company.

 

[jdfoxtrot79]

Im sure if Ebay had a proper search function I could. However, your statement leads to the homerism effect this site has for Razor. To be honest, I have nothing against them and I think their product looks nice. However, the situation of the mods and admins on this site constantly giving them a reach around effect dosent help them out at all. Trying to stiffel people from pointing out flaws will not help them out. The simple fact remains that most people have not heard of Razor. I only heard of them because of poker cards and thus led to me learning about baseball cards. However, I did not learn this from their website. I was one of the people who stumbled onto their site and was not given hardly any information as to what they are about. I learned from this specific site and no where else on the internet. Their sales in my opinion and to most of the people who have seen the sales of the Oval Office, are falling short of expected pricing. In my opinion the sites admins/mods/complete razor followers, are doing a disservice to Razor by constantly telling them they are doing everything right and nothing is wrong.

You are reading much too far into my statement. I was asking for examples simply for the reason that I believe it is far too easy to say "sales have been dissapointing" and not qualify why or give examples of dissapointing sales. If it is a fair statement then fine but saying it without evidence is just making an assumption. To go even further, calling me a homer for asking for evidence is worse. I've been very critical of Razor's recent moves with Chrome cards as have many other mods, so don't overblow the homerism thing.

By the way, here's an example I found.

[ebay:1fbuuht0]290295823437[/ebay:1fbuuht0] - Tyler Razor - $1,010
[ebay:1fbuuht0]110353026199[/ebay:1fbuuht0] - Tyler Topps - $565

Now maybe there are examples of bad sales out there, I just would like to see them.

You have to look at price vs. cost. Same thing for Exquisite autos Vs. Base Topps auto of the same numbering. Tyler Razor auto came from a ~$2000/card product. Tyler Topps Auto came from a ~$2/pack product. Profit potential is a bigger factor than ending prices. As I stated in another thread, the fact that the HIGHEST possible profit margin from a 1 of a kind collectable is only about 6 times your investment shows that Razor has not taken off, or it just shows their product was way over priced. Even if you went off of the $1500 intial sell sheet, 10 times profit margin from such a card is still quite horrible. Maybe I havent seen the places where the "Blue and Red" names have been critical, but I have seen alot of them where they are being unjustly nice to Razor. Im sure thats there to protect an investment, but I dont think it helps the company.

I have to thoroughly disagree... the razor cut auto almost doubled the heritage one because it simply looks better, had more hype, and is a better cut even.

 

[Kutzy]

You honstly think the price point of the product vs. Topps had nothing to do with it. Getting a cut auto from a $1500-$2000 product is inharently gonna bring a better price vs. the price point of a cut auto from a $2 product. To me, if you just look at the price potential across the entire line and your greatest gain, you will see the sufficent proof that the product failed. While it may because it was lack of recognition, overpricing of the product, or bad timing, I dont know. I agree, the card looks nice, the cut looks even better, but the secondary market price just dosent live up to the billing of the product.


Also, I think failed is a harsh word but I couldnt think of a better one. The product looks very nice, but it also looks over priced for this company.

 

[masonphillip]

Im sure if Ebay had a proper search function I could. However, your statement leads to the homerism effect this site has for Razor. To be honest, I have nothing against them and I think their product looks nice. However, the situation of the mods and admins on this site constantly giving them a reach around effect dosent help them out at all. Trying to stiffel people from pointing out flaws will not help them out. The simple fact remains that most people have not heard of Razor. I only heard of them because of poker cards and thus led to me learning about baseball cards. However, I did not learn this from their website. I was one of the people who stumbled onto their site and was not given hardly any information as to what they are about. I learned from this specific site and no where else on the internet. Their sales in my opinion and to most of the people who have seen the sales of the Oval Office, are falling short of expected pricing. In my opinion the sites admins/mods/complete razor followers, are doing a disservice to Razor by constantly telling them they are doing everything right and nothing is wrong.

You are reading much too far into my statement. I was asking for examples simply for the reason that I believe it is far too easy to say "sales have been dissapointing" and not qualify why or give examples of dissapointing sales. If it is a fair statement then fine but saying it without evidence is just making an assumption. To go even further, calling me a homer for asking for evidence is worse. I've been very critical of Razor's recent moves with Chrome cards as have many other mods, so don't overblow the homerism thing.

By the way, here's an example I found.

[ebay:3bs3p6v1]290295823437[/ebay:3bs3p6v1] - Tyler Razor - $1,010
[ebay:3bs3p6v1]110353026199[/ebay:3bs3p6v1] - Tyler Topps - $565

Now maybe there are examples of bad sales out there, I just would like to see them.

You have to look at price vs. cost. Same thing for Exquisite autos Vs. Base Topps auto of the same numbering. Tyler Razor auto came from a ~$2000/card product. Tyler Topps Auto came from a ~$2/pack product. Profit potential is a bigger factor than ending prices. As I stated in another thread, the fact that the HIGHEST possible profit margin from a 1 of a kind collectable is only about 6 times your investment shows that Razor has not taken off, or it just shows their product was way over priced. Even if you went off of the $1500 intial sell sheet, 10 times profit margin from such a card is still quite horrible. Maybe I havent seen the places where the "Blue and Red" names have been critical, but I have seen alot of them where they are being unjustly nice to Razor. Im sure thats there to protect an investment, but I dont think it helps the company.

So now you are saying the dissapointment lies in a sale to pack price comparison rather than just a pure sales. That makes a little more sense, however, I'd argue that the definition of taken off should be found from two main factors.

1. Initital sales of the packs - these packs bumped up $1000 to $2500 after initial release, a good sign.
2. The sale of the card on the secondary market - these have been good relative to other similar cuts.

The fact is on any high end product, for the most part, you are going to lose your butt busting and 10x your investment on a $1500 investment really isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

I'm really not arguing for Razor, I'm just arguing for a statistical analysis rather than blanket statements like dissapointing. Gambling is almost always dissapointing.

 

[jdfoxtrot79]

You honstly think the price point of the product vs. Topps had nothing to do with it. Getting a cut auto from a $1500-$2000 product is inharently gonna bring a better price vs. the price point of a cut auto from a $2 product. To me, if you just look at the price potential across the entire line and your greatest gain, you will see the sufficent proof that the product failed. While it may because it was lack of recognition, overpricing of the product, or bad timing, I dont know. I agree, the card looks nice, the cut looks even better, but the secondary market price just dosent live up to the billing of the product.


Also, I think failed is a harsh word but I couldnt think of a better one. The product looks very nice, but it also looks over priced for this company.

over priced yes, yet, it sold out before it was even produced???????

 

[chrome_ball]

Im sure if Ebay had a proper search function I could. However, your statement leads to the homerism effect this site has for Razor. To be honest, I have nothing against them and I think their product looks nice. However, the situation of the mods and admins on this site constantly giving them a reach around effect dosent help them out at all. Trying to stiffel people from pointing out flaws will not help them out. The simple fact remains that most people have not heard of Razor. I only heard of them because of poker cards and thus led to me learning about baseball cards. However, I did not learn this from their website. I was one of the people who stumbled onto their site and was not given hardly any information as to what they are about. I learned from this specific site and no where else on the internet. Their sales in my opinion and to most of the people who have seen the sales of the Oval Office, are falling short of expected pricing. In my opinion the sites admins/mods/complete razor followers, are doing a disservice to Razor by constantly telling them they are doing everything right and nothing is wrong.

You are reading much too far into my statement. I was asking for examples simply for the reason that I believe it is far too easy to say "sales have been dissapointing" and not qualify why or give examples of dissapointing sales. If it is a fair statement then fine but saying it without evidence is just making an assumption. To go even further, calling me a homer for asking for evidence is worse. I've been very critical of Razor's recent moves with Chrome cards as have many other mods, so don't overblow the homerism thing.

By the way, here's an example I found.

[ebay:1jybp1uf]290295823437[/ebay:1jybp1uf] - Tyler Razor - $1,010
[ebay:1jybp1uf]110353026199[/ebay:1jybp1uf] - Tyler Topps - $565

Now maybe there are examples of bad sales out there, I just would like to see them.

You have to look at price vs. cost. Same thing for Exquisite autos Vs. Base Topps auto of the same numbering. Tyler Razor auto came from a ~$2000/card product. Tyler Topps Auto came from a ~$2/pack product. Profit potential is a bigger factor than ending prices. As I stated in another thread, the fact that the HIGHEST possible profit margin from a 1 of a kind collectable is only about 6 times your investment shows that Razor has not taken off, or it just shows their product was way over priced. Even if you went off of the $1500 intial sell sheet, 10 times profit margin from such a card is still quite horrible. Maybe I havent seen the places where the "Blue and Red" names have been critical, but I have seen alot of them where they are being unjustly nice to Razor. Im sure thats there to protect an investment, but I dont think it helps the company.

I have to thoroughly disagree... the razor cut auto almost doubled the heritage one because it simply looks better, had more hype, and is a better cut even.

You don't think that the Razor cut auto ending for a higher amount had anything to do with the number of people that had a vested interest in it do you? :?

 

[Kutzy]

Sure it sold out, dosent mean it was a success though. Slow secondary market will kill future products from Razor because people wont see value in it.

Mason, I still feal that the majority of collectors out there dont know who Razor is. If they wanted to find out, its quite difficult for them to do so. Razor needs to seriously pick up their webdesign to accomidate for this. Their current ebay auctions shows the second classness of their company right now as they are trying to sell off the chrome name via their ebay auctions. To me, this is saying they arent good enough on their own, they gotta try to be like Topps/Bowman in order to market their product.

Right now, they make appealing cards, however they are still showing many signs of a second class card producer. To me, they havent shown they are a "Major" company yet.

 

[matfanofold]

What I think it really comes down to is the RAZOR idea and all it's glory has yet to be fully realised. They can make a great product, but thats only half the battle. I believe they went in to this knowing the other half, being getting product recognition, will take much longer. THey seem to be doing what ever they can at the moment to get cards in to the hands of collectors, and with that being said, I'm sure there "polish" and professionalisim will come in time.

Step 1: What do collectors want? Check...
Step 2: Create said product. Check...
Step 3: build on sucess and grow professionaly. Working on it.


Keep it up RAZOR, in no time thoes areas that are lacking will catch up.

 

[masonphillip]

Sure it sold out, dosent mean it was a success though. Slow secondary market will kill future products from Razor because people wont see value in it.

Mason, I still feal that the majority of collectors out there dont know who Razor is. If they wanted to find out, its quite difficult for them to do so. Razor needs to seriously pick up their webdesign to accomidate for this. Their current ebay auctions shows the second classness of their company right now as they are trying to sell off the chrome name via their ebay auctions. To me, this is saying they arent good enough on their own, they gotta try to be like Topps/Bowman in order to market their product.

Right now, they make appealing cards, however they are still showing many signs of a second class card producer. To me, they havent shown they are a "Major" company yet.

I agree they have a ways to go in some of the categories you mentioned, however, they are still new in this game and I like much of the progress I've seen.

 

[All The Hype]

Sure it sold out, dosent mean it was a success though. Slow secondary market will kill future products from Razor because people wont see value in it.

Mason, I still feal that the majority of collectors out there dont know who Razor is. If they wanted to find out, its quite difficult for them to do so. Razor needs to seriously pick up their webdesign to accomidate for this. Their current ebay auctions shows the second classness of their company right now as they are trying to sell off the chrome name via their ebay auctions. To me, this is saying they arent good enough on their own, they gotta try to be like Topps/Bowman in order to market their product.

Right now, they make appealing cards, however they are still showing many signs of a second class card producer. To me, they havent shown they are a "Major" company yet.

I think the fact that they are selling off singles of this product on eBay shows the second classness of their company by itself. It's not even about the fact that they are going after Topps's design of Bowman Chrome, it's about the fact that they can't just produce another entire product in packs, boxes, cases. They are distributing on eBay (not even a card-specific site like thepit), which to me is the biggest argument if you want to talk about "second classness" of their company.

Don't get me wrong though-I still think they are good looking cards and I still plan on looking into buying a few of the autos/parallels though.

 

[Kutzy]

I dont discount their progress, l actually think their product looks nice. Just my original post and follow ups pretty much were what matfanofold said. I agree with his post 100%, I just wish they didnt unearth their #1 possible product as their (nearly) initial product released. Maybe in time those cards will sell better, but I just see it as a turnoff for future investors in their products.

Having said that, I am still watching and looking to pick up 1 or 2 of their cuts.

I barely missed out on 2 when they initially made cuts in their poker products 2 or 3 years ago.

 

[Crash Davis]

There is definitely one thing I don't like about the way these auctions are set up. I don't like how they said "SIMILAR TO "CHROMIUM"!" to me that screams "off brand" I do not think that is what razor intends, nor do I feel that way about the company as a whole, I just wish that line wasn't in the auctions.

A lot of things they do scream "off brand".

** Wholly non-updated website.
** Joining forces with Just to sell cards on their site.
** Following, not creating, trends -- Lettermen, now Chrome.
** Direct sales of print plates
** Changing distribution plans, at the sake of customer's happiness, on a moment's notice.
** "Happy Prospecting"
** The owner of the company arguing with numerous individuals on a baseball card message board. If Topps, Donruss or UD is going to come online, in my experience, they follow mother's rule -- say something nice or don't say anything at all.

Very well crafted post, Jeff.

Bravo!

 

[Jaypers]

** The owner of the company arguing with numerous individuals on a baseball card message board. If Topps, Donruss or UD is going to come online, in my experience, they follow mother's rule -- say something nice or don't say anything at all.

...and don't forget to tie him to a chair and castrate him while you're at it.

There's a difference between being deliberately argumentative and actively participating in discussion about your own products.

Sometimes silence is deafening.

 

[Crash Davis]

Im sure if Ebay had a proper search function I could. However, your statement leads to the homerism effect this site has for Razor. To be honest, I have nothing against them and I think their product looks nice. However, the situation of the mods and admins on this site constantly giving them a reach around effect dosent help them out at all. Trying to stiffel people from pointing out flaws will not help them out. The simple fact remains that most people have not heard of Razor. I only heard of them because of poker cards and thus led to me learning about baseball cards. However, I did not learn this from their website. I was one of the people who stumbled onto their site and was not given hardly any information as to what they are about. I learned from this specific site and no where else on the internet. Their sales in my opinion and to most of the people who have seen the sales of the Oval Office, are falling short of expected pricing. In my opinion the sites admins/mods/complete razor followers, are doing a disservice to Razor by constantly telling them they are doing everything right and nothing is wrong.

You are reading much too far into my statement. I was asking for examples simply for the reason that I believe it is far too easy to say "sales have been dissapointing" and not qualify why or give examples of dissapointing sales. If it is a fair statement then fine but saying it without evidence is just making an assumption. To go even further, calling me a homer for asking for evidence is worse. I've been very critical of Razor's recent moves with Chrome cards as have many other mods, so don't overblow the homerism thing.

By the way, here's an example I found.

[ebay:34xeh0la]290295823437[/ebay:34xeh0la] - Tyler Razor - $1,010
[ebay:34xeh0la]110353026199[/ebay:34xeh0la] - Tyler Topps - $565

Now maybe there are examples of bad sales out there, I just would like to see them.

WOW!

You are a "pricing guru?"

If you were, then you'd know that the President Tyler cut from Razor came from a pack that has an SRP of probably 75-100 times that of the same cut from Topps.

To compare an autograph from a product that has an SRP of what $2k or something to a pack that has an SRP of $2.99 just proves the original poster's point.

 

[Crash Davis]

quote]

I have to thoroughly disagree... the razor cut auto almost doubled the heritage one because it simply looks better, had more hype, and is a better cut even.[/quote]

You disagree???

Seriously, if I pulled a Tyler autograph from one pack Razor Presidential Sig product, I'd have lost my shirt.

If I pulled a Tyler autograph from one case of American Heritage, let alone one pack, I'd have broken even before selling all the other stuff. Now, if I pulled it from one pack, I'd be up over $550.

End of discussion.

Seriously, there is no discussion here. It's a ludicrous coversation even.

 

[ChasHawk]

[quote="mredsox89":3civp2aj][quote="Dell Sportcards":3civp2aj]I will be honest till I came on this site and board I have never heard of this stuff.

im pretty sure most have the same feeling.

That's not entirely fair... they have been reviewed in Beckett.

I have been in beckett a hand full of times. Ever heard of me?

Do you advertise in Beckett? Are you a card brand? Are you being reviewed?

The simple point I was making is just because you are in Beckett doesnt give you the wide spread attention needed for a "major" producer. Word of mouth goes further and for this company it has yet to catch on. Secondly to my knowledge they dont advertise much on the internet or at least I have NEVER seen them outside of this site. Their website leaves alot to be desired if someone were to stumble upon them.

Simply being in a magazine =/= proper recognition.[/quote:3civp2aj]

Their website is my biggest problem. I've been a proponent of Razor from pretty much the beginning but their website pales in comparison to others.[/quote:3civp2aj]


I think this is the most glaring fact to me that shows they are not a major producer yet.

If you search for "razor baseball cards" on Yahoo & Google, the actual Razor website is the 3rd listing on Yahoo, and the 5th listing on Google.

This is not good for a company that wants to be a "major player" in the market.

Maybe just the name Razor, being that it's a generic noun, is hurting them somewhat as far as getting their name out there to the non-message board/Beckett reading public.

just my .02