Your Beef with the Hobby or Why You Don't Care.

[bradical]

The reason you took offense to it is because you are part of the problem. We see the same problem in the autograph memorabilia side; people wonder why stars charge $300.00 for an autograph, well the fact is they have to charge that so parasites, I mean prospectors, don't flip them for a quick buck because they can't turn a profit.

Do you see Brick and Mortar shops are part of the problem too, because you just described 100% of their business model.

 

[CardboardIcons]

Yes, you are a joke. I never insulted anyone in this thread. Show me where I insulted anyone. Just because you take offense to something I said doesn’t mean I an insult was thrown. An insult is calling someone a ******* and the fact you took offense and disagree with EVERYTHING I said is reassuring because it means my compass still points North in the HOBBY that is baseball card COLLECTING.

The reason you took offense to it is because you are part of the problem. We see the same problem in the autograph memorabilia side; people wonder why stars charge $300.00 for an autograph, well the fact is they have to charge that so parasites, I mean prospectors, don't flip them for a quick buck because they can't turn a profit.

You refereed to half the user base of this site as a cancer to the hobby. If you can't see how that's an insult then I got no help for you.

I said you putting collectors that prospect in a box is jackassish because it is. Ask JP to post some of the cards in his COLLECTION. Ask me to post some of my cards in my COLLECTION. Most of the guys here that you would consider prospector scum have collections along with the cards that they are flipping.

Those are your words, not mine. If others took offense to my post that is their problem. Let me ask you something, did you get into collecting first or prospecting? Did you have your collection and one day say, “I bet I can make money by buying and selling potential stars?” At some point did you have the joy that just collecting gives many on this board or did you just decide to keep a few of the things you weren’t planning on flipping?

It makes no difference how many cards are in your “collection” if the first thing you think of when you see a rookie is, “How much can I make by flippin’ this to some sucker!!” It wouldn’t even be bad if there were a few prospectors but “half the user base on this site” thinks about making money when they think of cards instead of the hobby aspect… it is sad.

I think it is safe to say that most of the users didn’t sign up to this site so they can wade thru a thousand threads about prospecting. Look at all the player collectors and set collectors here, you make it sound like you are in the majority but you are not.

Be a prospector, that is your prerogative, but please don’t think for a second that the money aspect of this hobby hasn’t worsened it. The same person that prospects is the same person that starts a thread bitching about some patch forger when in reality that forger is just trying to make a little more money on his flip, too. Why, I bet that patch forger is a “real collector” too and forgery is just the other side of the “hobby” for him.

You're not seriously comparing patch forgers to prospectors are you? They are no where near the same, not even in an ethical sense. Prospecting is akin to trading stocks; which is perfectly legal. Faking patches and altering cards is fraud.

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

I prospect and collect so what does that make me? Just curious.

A Collectaspector.

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

Such a jackassy statement.

News flash, not everyone who prospects here and there or rips and lists is what you claim they are. Yeah, sure there are people who do that, but you can't just take a box and throw people in it.

People are complicated, and so are collecting habits. Many of us participate in about every side of the hobby you can think of.

Before we start posting, I made this in response to Kevin's negative views of the hobby. PLEASE keep this civil. No name calling and try to keep the conversation respectable. There are a lot of things that annoys collectors in the hobby, but there are some collectors who don't feel its a big deal and just collect for the love of cards. So, what is your beef with the hobby or why do you feel people are overreacting about situations in the hobby.

 

[cgilmo]

I said his statement was jackassy.


I didn't call him a *******.

 

[All The Hype]

Be a prospector, that is your prerogative, but please don’t think for a second that the money aspect of this hobby hasn’t worsened it. The same person that prospects is the same person that starts a thread bitching about some patch forger when in reality that forger is just trying to make a little more money on his flip, too. Why, I bet that patch forger is a “real collector” too and forgery is just the other side of the “hobby” for him.

You're not seriously comparing patch forgers to prospectors are you? They are no where near the same, not even in an ethical sense. Prospecting is akin to trading stocks; which is perfectly legal. Faking patches and altering cards is fraud.

No kidding. Prospectors are on the same level as patch fakers? Consider how stupid that statement is. You kill your own arguments whenever you start throwing around completely absurd comparisons that are as inaccurate and laughable as the one in your quoted post here.

 

[miguelcabrera]

[quote="Mozzie22":3aj7we1p]Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

I prospect and collect so what does that make me? Just curious.

Is there any card in your "collection" you wouldnt sell to make a decent sized profit?

Yes, I look at some of the cards I have and how long it took me to find them. I have autograph sets that took me 8 years to finish. I finished the 2001 2002 and 2003 UD PP master autograph sets and those are sets I will never part with. Im still missing a few from the 2002 and 2003 sets so technically they aren't "finished". Its pretty cool to look at the 2001 set from card 1 to 102 and have them all autographed.[/quote:3aj7we1p]



Well either you are lying (meaning you would take the profit) or you are part of a VERY SELECT FEW group of prospectors who have a collection they wouldnt pawn off in a second for the slightest but of profit.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

There needs to be SOME definition in the hobby or else people run amok...which always seems to happen whenever money is involved in this world. How would no definition or regulation work in the financial world??! We'd be back in the stone age because everyone would try to take advantage of one another without some degree of protection. Funny how lack of definition or lack of rules always seems to benefit SELLERS...

Without a doubt intending to sell for profit and collecting are two different things. When one is engaged in the act of selling here, they're not engaged in the act of collecting, this is a separate activity. People who own shoe stores aren't collecting the shoes in their stores, they're selling them.

Sorry, the absurd comparisons (financial world and shoe salesman????) leave me completely confused to any point you were trying to make and neither have anything to do with someone who likes baseball cards (and is therefore part of the hobby).

Its not that tough. A much better explanation for your confusion here is that you: A) don't understand financial concepts; B) choose not to; or C) have no retort.

 

[wickedliquids]

Now that I've come back to some light collecting, there are several things that I have issues/concerns with that have prevented me from spending anymore than a few dollars a year on the newer material. In fact, I've begun to convert most of my collection to authentic, autographed memorabilia (why pay $400 for a card that has a sliver of a baseball bat and autograph, when I could probably buy the whole bat with an auto for the same price?) and pre-war vintage cards.

Here's my beef:


1. Lazy, unimaginative styling. Going for the flashy and high gloss looks may be a simple reflection of the times we live in.

2. More risk vs reward marketing as opposed to collectible hobby.

3. No cigarettes packed with the cards (just kidding! )

4. Overpriced. WAYYY over-priced. $100 for a card of someone that MIGHT be good in 2 to 8 years vs $100 for a pre-war, vintage, well established HOF'er that will 99% hold in value or increase. You do the math.

5. Too many inserts. Trying to build a true "master" set nearly impossible, unless it's all low-end product.

6. Ebay - thank you. You know what I'm talking about.

7. Fraud. Oh man, don't get me started here. JUST as the very first poster noted, I doubt 75% of the sell sheets that show what's available in the product is actually released. Do I need to mention the words "reverse negative" and "Dale Murphy" to anyone? And what's even MORE crazy is the fact that when companies release EXCEPTIONALLY limited items and threads on FCB, for example, show some degree of tracking those items and after doing the math, you realize, "Hey, there's no WAY some of those cards have been released." In other words, fraud from manufacturers and fraud from collectors - don't get me started on Bill Maestro either.

8. Lazy-ass players that can't sign a card for their fans.

9. Pack searchers.

10. Pack stealers.

11. Too much product.

12. Too little product.

13. The existence of product between 1980 to 1999.

14. Brad Lidge.

15. Did I mention no cigarettes with the cards?

Peace, I'm out.

 

[All The Hype]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

A few thoughts:

--I am an active prospector and I also collect. One thing that attracted me to the hobby was the fact that cards hold value. Before the internet was big, I enjoyed collecting cards of all my favorite players but I also liked "knowing" that those 1995 Topps base cards were going to be worth hundreds of dollars someday.

--Money and baseball cards will forever be connected, that's just the way it is. Some people like to focus more on money, some less. I'd be willing to bet that NO ONE purposely buys a card at its absolute peak price. Even if it's for your permanent collection, why would you want to be the one who pays the peak price for it if you have the opportunity to pay less?

--I buy a lot of cards with the intent to flip them later for profit. I also buy cards which I do not plan to sell. But if those "PC" cards for some reason gained enormous value, you can bet I'd be willing to sell just about all of them. As long as money is an object, everything will have a price. It's just that the price at which I'd be willing to sell a card may be a great deal higher than market price for that particular card. I personally think that a person who tells you otherwise is stupid. If you buy a card for $25 and it's your favorite card in the world, but someone offers you $10,000,000 for it, of course you're going to take it.

--One of my favorite things to do is buying cards I like as half-PC, half-investment cards. For example, I like Justin Verlander. So I buy some of his rookie cards that I am more than happy to have in my collection. At the same time, if those cards were to gain value next year for whatever reason, I will have the option to flip them for a profit, and may or may not do so. It's ideal to buy cards at times when their value has chance to increase. Why wouldn't you want the option to sell for a profit? You don't have to take it, but isn't it part of the fun to know that you have a card worth $500 that you bought yours for only $250? Even with cards I call PC, I still want to find decent deals on them so that if I ever have to move them down the road, I'm not stuck taking a 40% loss when I make the sale.

--Lastly, I'm not sure I understand why people care what other people do. If you don't like prospecting, skip the threads! The great thing about this board is that there are so many kinds of people who bring all different perspectives and interests to FCB. It's nice to have options of what to read and people involved with different sides of the hobby with whom we can interact.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

As a collector, the only time I get frustrated with prospectors is when I'm trying to get a card and have to go up against someone who is "building their stash" so to speak. Usually they have to bid on every single copy that surfaces (frustrating).

It's not always prospectors though; sometimes it's just "hoarders". I'm a pretty patient person however, so it normally pays to just put the card on the back burner until those folks move on to something else. I appreciate the folks who bust product and sell (prospectors or otherwise)...it's how I get my singles.

While hoarders are an interesting bunch, I've wondered if some bidders take tax write-offs on inventory acquisition... Wouldn't it be even more frustrating winning an item that was bid up by someone whose dollars were partially subsidized by you?

 

[ThoseBackPages]

wow this thread got nasty

 

[All The Hype]

As a collector, the only time I get frustrated with prospectors is when I'm trying to get a card and have to go up against someone who is "building their stash" so to speak. Usually they have to bid on every single copy that surfaces (frustrating).

It's not always prospectors though; sometimes it's just "hoarders". I'm a pretty patient person however, so it normally pays to just put the card on the back burner until those folks move on to something else. I appreciate the folks who bust product and sell (prospectors or otherwise)...it's how I get my singles.

While hoarders are an interesting bunch, I've wondered if some bidders take tax write-offs on inventory acquisition... Wouldn't it be even more frustrating winning an item that was bid up by someone whose dollars were partially subsidized by you?

Do you actually think that happens?

 

[autocut]

wow this thread got nasty

It always end up that way. People take things personal and make attacks on others opinions. A prime example of why nothing ever gets fixed or done in the hobby.

 

[dethomas07]

Just read the first page or so and then stop. That will at leave you with some hope in humanity and the collecting community.

David

 

[jswaykos]

I don't have a beef with the companies. Why should they change anything they're doing if people are still mindlessly purchasing all of their product? Doesn't make sense to put more time and energy in to it than they have to. I'm not saying that it's right, but it's why things are the way they are.

I don't care about prospectors, either. Do what you gotta do. It's a hobby within the hobby, just like blogging, or TTM, in person autographs, or whatever.

I don't even care about forgers. The people that buy their obviously fake crap with little or no research are at fault.

The only thing that really peeves me is when people whine and complain about no 'value' in their box. That they can't make their money back on an overpriced box of Triple Threads. You can say it's a 'lottery', but that's not how it's set up. If you want to try and make money of cards, truly, you need to open a shop and purchase through a distributor. Buying through a third party at retail pricing and THEN hoping to turn a profit is silly. If there were $200 cards coming out of a box of Triple Threads, the box would cost $300.

I don't have an issue with wax, I like it. In fact, I enjoy it quite a bit, because it's FUN. Which is what unopened boxes and packs have always been meant to be. If you want high dollar cards without the risk, buy singles.

So yeah... people who bust wax and complain incessantly about not getting 'value' out of it is my biggest issue with our hobby.

 

[autocut]

Another beef in the hobby is that it is all marketing now. Majority of the people want what's hot and claim they are collectors. Where are the so called collectors of Billy Butler, Alex Gordon, and Strasburg now? How quickly so called "fans" and "collectors" turn their backs on players as soon as they go into a slump or get injuried. Not as many true collectors anymore. Nothing wrong with investing, but hard to call it a hobby if a very low % actually collects.

 

[bozemanbreaker]

You know, if it weren't for the rip and flip guys, there wouldn't be as much out there for "collectors" to buy, amirite ? :lol:

 

[jswaykos]

You know, if it weren't for the rip and flip guys, there wouldn't be as much out there for "collectors" to buy, amirite ? :lol:

I don't have a complaint AT ALL about the people who rip and flip - more cheap singles for me! I have a problem with people who choose to flip and rip and complain that they're not making a profit. Why SHOULD you be able to sell something for MORE than retail cost? It doesn't make sense.

 

[wickedliquids]

As a collector, the only time I get frustrated with prospectors is when I'm trying to get a card and have to go up against someone who is "building their stash" so to speak. Usually they have to bid on every single copy that surfaces (frustrating).

It's not always prospectors though; sometimes it's just "hoarders". I'm a pretty patient person however, so it normally pays to just put the card on the back burner until those folks move on to something else. I appreciate the folks who bust product and sell (prospectors or otherwise)...it's how I get my singles.

While hoarders are an interesting bunch, I've wondered if some bidders take tax write-offs on inventory acquisition... Wouldn't it be even more frustrating winning an item that was bid up by someone whose dollars were partially subsidized by you?

Do you actually think that happens?

Yes, it does happen. It happens more frequently in the pre-war vintage market. Those collectors that purchase collections of the pre-war stuff chase after collections that can easily go beyond the six-figure range. However, it's known that you have to be very, very careful when you do attempt go the tax-write off route. Many times, taking a five-figure tax write off has apparently, and usually immediately, triggered an audit by the IRS. Make sure to have your receipts.