matchpenalty
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What was calling Topps gonna do?
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Accusations from fellow FCBer. Need help and opinions. THX
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JEA2880
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Post modified to remove pm's, my apologies.
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point. The card is clearly short and whether or not it was trimmed (it likely wasn't and was just manufactured smaller than normal) and I would think that in light of the new information the seller should be willing to work with me and make good on the deal. I'm not trying to "reneg", "have buyer's remorse", or anything else that's been said, and I'm not trying to pull a fast one and hold him hostage for a partial refund. In hand, the item clearly isn't what would be expected and no one would ever pay $150 for it - as soon as I saw it I knew it was small and I would never try and re-sell it to someone else without revealing that first now that it's known, which obviously makes it worth less than market value. I had a Stanton Refractor that I sold for $40 when they were going at $150 because it had the same problem, but I didn't want to deceive anyone by selling them a small card.
Can any of you honestly say that if you were willing to pay $150 for a card like this but then you found out that it was slightly smaller than a normal one that your willingness to pay wouldn't drop significantly?
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point. The card is clearly short and whether or not it was trimmed (it likely wasn't and was just manufactured smaller than normal) and I would think that in light of the new information the seller should be willing to work with me and make good on the deal. I'm not trying to "reneg", "have buyer's remorse", or anything else that's been said, and I'm not trying to pull a fast one and hold him hostage for a partial refund. In hand, the item clearly isn't what would be expected and no one would ever pay $150 for it - as soon as I saw it I knew it was small and I would never try and re-sell it to someone else without revealing that first now that it's known, which obviously makes it worth less than market value. I had a Stanton Refractor that I sold for $40 when they were going at $150 because it had the same problem, but I didn't want to deceive anyone by selling them a small card.
Can any of you honestly say that if you were willing to pay $150 for a card like this but then you found out that it was slightly smaller than a normal one that your willingness to pay wouldn't drop significantly?
Anthony K.
New member
JEA2880 said:
Well, if I was buying it to flip it, I would be upset, but nothing looked amiss in the scan.
It seems so far that, based on the scans provided, you are the only one to notice it is slightly smaller.
Now, I will not lie, if I was securedsports, I would require either all of the cards back or you keep them. If he didn't know it was "slightly smaller", than he couldn't disclose it.
It seems more to me you are just upset because you will not be able to flip this Montero in the future.
JEA2880
New member
Anthony K. said:
Why should my intentions factor into the equation? A card is assumed to be a certain size; whether I want to keep it or sell it, I still want it to be the right size, especially when there's such a hobby stigma towards cards that appear to be trimmed for grading purposes (and understandably so).
Piggy- definitely has nothing to do with any bowing. The cards were completely flat lined up one on top of the other to show the difference. I'm telling you, the difference is clear to the naked eye in person, even without comparing it to the other Blue i knew something was off as soon as I took it out of the package.
Also, why is it an all or nothing deal? I bought (3) base Chrome Auto's for $60 each and (1) Blue Refractor Auto for $150. Heck, I even threw in an extra $10 to cover his fees. I feel like I'm getting penalized for being knowledgeable and having integrity by not trying to pawn the card off on someone else hoping they don't notice or pleading ignorance.
This has been interesting, I'm surprised at some of the responses.
trademhigh
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
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Have you ever considered that that was because he has the card on hand? That's a bit ridiculous. Have you seen the card in person? Didn't think so.Anthony K. said:
kentuckyderby
New member
Jesus Saves
mchenrycards
Featured Contributor, Vintage Corner, Senior Membe
Why dont you just send it to Beckett for grading with the buyer and seller splitting the grading fee. If its deemed altered the seller gets the card back, if its not and the card gets graded and slabbed the buyer keeps the card. Its not really all that tough guys!!!
JEA2880
New member
mchenrycards said:
I was thinking of that type of arrangement - Raw Card Review would've been perfect at the White Plains show from last weekend, unfortunately the cards got here Monday instead.
IndyManning18
Active member
Tell him/her to shove the blue where the sun doesn't shine and maybe he/she can poop it out centered.
Gwynn545
Well-known member
Hmmm...I am in no way a prospector, or chromie, or whatever. I wouldn't ever be able to tell one card is smaller than another (that close, anyways). Frankly, I wouldn't care. However, I do buy packs every once in a while, and since I am a Gwynn collector I sell or trade anything worth anything.
If I had pulled the Jesus card, (or redemption whatever it is) and then sold it to you, and then you thought the card was smaller or trimmed
(Like what is going on here)
There is no way I would refund anything. I think it's ludacris. I told you what I have. You bought it. If it's smaller, or trimmed from the company, that doesn't matter. You bought it, just like I pulled it. Hopefully I would have sent scans or whatnot for high dollar cards, but none of that matters, because you wouldn't be able to tell minute trimming from a scan.
If you are accusing me of being a trimmer, that's another story. I don't think that's what you're doing here, and Secured DID jump to a little conclusion if all of what went down is true.
If I had pulled the Jesus card, (or redemption whatever it is) and then sold it to you, and then you thought the card was smaller or trimmed
(Like what is going on here)
There is no way I would refund anything. I think it's ludacris. I told you what I have. You bought it. If it's smaller, or trimmed from the company, that doesn't matter. You bought it, just like I pulled it. Hopefully I would have sent scans or whatnot for high dollar cards, but none of that matters, because you wouldn't be able to tell minute trimming from a scan.
If you are accusing me of being a trimmer, that's another story. I don't think that's what you're doing here, and Secured DID jump to a little conclusion if all of what went down is true.
Gwynn545
Well-known member
Thanks ::facepalm:: continue the thread...Vagrant said:
Card Magnet
New member
Ludacris is the rapper responsible for integrating his name into the word for a clever play on wordsVagrant said:
.You are of course correct with the rest.
blanning71
Super Moderator
Someone say ludicrous?
JEA2880 said:
This sounds like the best deal to me. Even send the card to philipmason to send it in with the FCB group sub. I can't blame JEA2880 for being upset, anyone one of us would be less than thrilled if the $150 card they just bought was small.
There is no question, if the card came damaged from topps the OP refunds. Its like saying hey the card had a scratch on the back thats not obvious in the scan or to the naked eye but topps sent it that way deal with it. JEA sent his money for a card of a certain size not one slightly smaller no matter who is responsible for this.
A_Pharis
Active member
nyc3 said:
then he should buy graded.
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- #59
LazerShow15
New member
JEA2880 said:It is I, JEA2880, the alleged user who had "buyer's remorse" - or so say the uninformed masses who replied to this thread. Allow me to explain the situation and share my side of events, with images of the card in question, to vindicate myself and show that I am very justified in asking for a refund...
First of all, securedsports contends that I accused him of trimming the card. Right away, this statement is false. I pm'd him after receiving my Montero package the other day saying something to the effect of:
Brad,
I received today, but there was a problem - the card is definitely short left to right. Where did you get the card? Please advise.
John"
I completely give the seller the benefit of the doubt, thinking that perhaps he was on the short end (no pun intended) of a previous deal in which he was sold a trimmed card. Assuming he didn't want his name associated with trimming, I asked for some information and naturally assumed that if he found out he was dealing a smaller card, he'd be fine issuing a refund.
To my surprise, I receive an aggressively worded response, something like:
John, All 4 cards came directly from Topps, I can even confirm such with Topps. I can't believe you would accuse me of this, reneging on a deal is garbage. I don't have time to play games, obviously you are only in it for the money by any means necessary. I will call Topps today.
Very aggressive, emotional response that misinterprets my original message. Granted, if the card came from Topps I can understand his confusion, but nevertheless, the card is short left to right and would likely get rejected by a grading company and deemed altered. I think you would all agree that there is a presumption that when you buy a card, the item received will be the correct size.
Without even having a chance to respond (I work full-time 50+ hours per week and all of these messages started to roll in between 10 and 11 in the morning), I receive another message, something like:
There's a thread, definitely not trimmed. You saw a scan, everything was sent as received from Topps, I wouldn't even know how to trim a card. Man up and don't back out of the deal. Brad"
Again, a very aggressive, unprofessional, emotional response, and he hasn't even given me a chance to respond. I would also like to add that he never sent me scans of the cards but I never even asked for any, so this tangential point isn't even relevant - I'm not upset about getting a card that's off centered, I'm upset about getting a card that will forever be perceived to have been altered. Heck, I just submitted my first grading order in a decade through FCB's August submission and generally only deal with raw cards.
After this second pm over-reaction, I respond saying something to the effect of:
Brad,
You are jumping to conclusions - I never said you trimmed the card, only that it is clearly altered or not the correct size. Don't be associated with selling bad cards, make good on a refund as the card isn't as presumed to be, i.e. a full size card. Starting a thread about it probably won't look too good for you either.
Same points I have already made.
Anyway, I get the following responses making claims such as those below (3 in a row, all within minutes of each other... again, I'm at work and this has already become too great of a distraction):
#1- I sent scans, check your E-mails, there was a post with scans I assumed you saw. I see it's now removed but you accuse me of selling a TRIMMED card to you, if you think that, take it up with Topps yourself. Thank you.
Again, I never got scans but I didn't even want any. More stellar customer service.
#2- (He provides me with a date he allegedly E-mailed me scans, again, irrelevant) I don't have time to play games, mods have proof blah blah blah more of the same. It's a fair deal because the cards will all probably grade high anyway
Still hung up on the scans thing (as if they would be able to show that the card is small left to right on its own anyway), but again, immaterial. I have no record of anything in my inbox at or around the time indicated above - I suppose it's possible I deleted the message, because again, I never requested any scans.
#3 - It won't make me look bad, I'm never dealing with you again, I'm not being hostile but when I get accused of something or selling something that isn't true, I need to stand up...
Again, I still haven't made any accusations or indictments about his character. I have only said that the card is clearly short left to right.
It was at this point that Chris got involved and locked this thread until I was free to respond. With that being said, below are scans of two Montero Blue Refractor's. The one on the top shows the card in question while the one on the bottom shows an unaltered copy, one of two I recently purchased from Ken (Moxacaine), which should debunk any notion that I have "buyer's remorse". This one is off center, I might add, and yet I certainly didn't go complaining to Ken. No problem at all with that deal.
You be the judge:
Sorry for the long read, hopefully this clears up the questions and gives the seller a chance to make things right.
The defense rests.
Funny how he edits the PM's and contact we have sent back and forth. CGILMO please get involved and check the records that show SCANS were sent. Don't discount they were sent my man, as all of my SENT folder has them, all reply emails have them, and they were even on the thread you replied when you first wanted them. I then removed them once we had a deal.
- Thread starter
- #60
LazerShow15
New member
G $MONEY$ said:
Send it in, be my guest, the card I sent to the buyer was not Trimmed in any fashion. I don't see him complaining one bit about the other 3 GEM MINT Copies of Jesus Montero in the deal. Those must have been trimmed too???? Because I am such a perfect trimmer. When those regular chrome autos come back 9.5's I want those back because I sold them raw at a lower price. This is just too much.
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