Adam Dunn might hit 600 HR, would he make the HOF?

[Frow]

The only reason I use this comparison is because there are plenty of people who think McGwire is worthy of enshrinement, but laugh at the idea of Dunn potentially making it.

1. McGwire has already hit 583, his career is done. Dunn's has not so injury or a repeat of last year means 99% of all this talk is completely pointless.
2. McGwire was the best hitter in baseball for many years. He broke the all-time record, lead the league multiple times in multiple positive stats over multiple years including one of the best rookie seasons of any player and went to 12 All-Star games as a 1B. Dunn is one of the better power hitters in today's baseball, but not the best nor has he ever been. He's been to 2 All-Star games, one as a DH and has only ever lead the league in Strikeouts 3 times and once in BB (barring this season in which he currently leads in HR, but there's still plenty of time to lose that especially if Hamilton wakes up). He's on pace to be the quickest person to ever get 2k strikeouts by a full 5-6 seasons (granted there are currently only 5 people on that list)
3. McGwire has a Gold Glove and while he did lead the league once with errors, he has lead the league in every positive fielding category and is 63rd All-Time in Fielding Pct for that position. Dunn is up there with some of the worst fielders of all time as he is 36th All-Time in Errors in LF, and 4th For all Active Outfielders (2 of which have not played a single game this year) and is 16th for active first basemen with errors committed at 1B
4. McGwire missed time due to a bad back. Dunn missed time because his manager didn't want him to feel bad if broke the 200 strikeout mark in a season.

Overall people think McGwire deserves enshrinement because he's one of the best hitters of all time and hey not a totally useless fielder either. Dunn is in no way, shape, or form anything like McGwire.

 

[Sly]

I am incredibly biased when it comes to the Dunner. If he makes it to the 600 club, he's a shoe-in. Making 500 will probably get him in.

Yes, he strikes out a lot and he has a low batting average, but that doesn't mean he's horrible. He is much better at 1B than the outfield. I'm not saying he's GG caliber, but he's not atrocious at first.

Most people say a high OBP is a good thing. Evidently that is accurate for every player but Adam Dunn. People still use that to tear the guy down. Heaven Forbid the guy walks and gets on base. That's total BS! People selectively choose when something is a benefit or a negative.

He's a masher. He admits that he tries to hit everything out of the yard. IF he makes it too 600 home runs, following his 162 game average, he will be around ~2,200 hits. So it's not like he doesn't ever hit.

Here's another fun one. Again, using his 162 game average and saying he does not add any more stats this season, it would take Dunn 4.9 seasons to reach McGwire's 583 home runs. If that were to happen, he would also have more hits, runs, RBI, doubles, triples, walks, stolen bases, and total bases. His batting average and slugging will be lower, OBP will be pretty close. The only reason I use this comparison is because there are plenty of people who think McGwire is worthy of enshrinement, but laugh at the idea of Dunn potentially making it.

Many also considered McGwire one of the best power hitters of the '80s and '90s. Dunn has never been considered one of the great power hitters. McGwire has led the league in HR's four times, Dunn never has. McGwire's career OPS is also about 100 points higher than Dunn's. McGwire also strikes out a lot less than Dunn. McGwire's BA in clutch situations (2 outs w/ RISP) is 70 points higher than Dunn's (.274 vs. .201).

I get the comparison between the two and it's a legitimate comparison, but McGwire blows Dunn away. With all that said, I think a legitimate non-steroid argument could be made that McGwire's not a HOFer, and frankly, I probably wouldn't argue it too much.

 

[scotty216brs]

Easily the best power hitter of his era? The same era that included Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Banks, McCovey, Frank Robinson, etc.

lol

If you can find me ONE hitter who hit more home runs in the 1960's than Killebrews 393, I would love know know who it is.

I'll make it easy for you, Mays had 350, and Aaron had 375, etc....didn't even have to look at the rest.

 

[elmalo]

lol

If you can find me ONE hitter who hit more home runs in the 1960's than Killebrews 393, I would love know know who it is.

I'll make it easy for you, Mays had 350, and Aaron had 375, etc....didn't even have to look at the rest.

So that makes him EASILY the best power hitter of his generation? They also played in the 50's and into the 70's. Are home runs the only indication of power? Bc Mays, Mantle and Aarons slugging % are all about 50 points higher than Killebrews.

 

[scotty216brs]

So that makes him EASILY the best power hitter of his generation?

Yes.

They also played in the 50's and into the 70's.

No sh*t.

Are home runs the only indication of power?

Yes, power hitter usually means home run hitter. Before Killebrew, Kiner was the leagues top power hitter.

Bc Mays, Mantle and Aarons slugging % are all about 50 points higher than Killebrews.

Fascinating.

 

[elmalo]

Yes.


No sh*t.


Yes, power hitter usually means home run hitter. Before Killebrew, Kiner was the leagues top power hitter.



Fascinating.

It is fascinating, bc it shows that they had more power than Killebrew. And Williams, DiMaggio, Musial were better power hitters than Kiner. Homeruns alone do not define power.

 

[predatorkj]

Big Mac was a way better hitter than Dunn. But as far as leading the league....uh, yeah, if Dunn roided up, he might contend too.

 

[Vagrant]

For those making the claims that Dunn never lead the league in HR or SLG or any other stat, check out the era he played in and check out the players that beat him and cross off the juice monkies and you'll have a better idea of where he stacks up. Same with ASG appearances if that means anything to you. In an era where being clean was the exception for power hitters instead of the rule, I think 500 HR will get him into the HOF. Those 100 R, 100 RBI, 100 BB seasons with the Reds were exceptional.

 

[elmalo]

For those making the claims that Dunn never lead the league in HR or SLG or any other stat, check out the era he played in and check out the players that beat him and cross off the juice monkies and you'll have a better idea of where he stacks up. Same with ASG appearances if that means anything to you. In an era where being clean was the exception for power hitters instead of the rule, I think 500 HR will get him into the HOF. Those 100 R, 100 RBI, 100 BB seasons with the Reds were exceptional.

You know who all of the juice monkeys are? Do you know for certain that he himself isnt a juice monkey?

 

[RL24]

Page 10 Scorecard:

elmalo - 2
scotty216brs - 0
Vagrant - 0


Back to the action!

 

[Vagrant]

You know who all of the juice monkeys are? Do you know for certain that he himself isnt a juice monkey?

I know those that have been confirmed, and that is basically enough to eliminate many of the guys who finished above him on an annual basis. As far as Dunn not juicing, I think the fact that speculation has entirely neglected him speaks to the fact that he's clean. There wouldn't be many easier targets considering his consistent power numbers. I mean, even after one of the historically worst seasons in baseball history and a subsequent return to form, nobody has even brought up the harbinger of steroid use and I consider that to be a pretty solid bet in these days of conclusion jumping.

 

[Frow]

I know those that have been confirmed, and that is basically enough to eliminate many of the guys who finished above him on an annual basis. As far as Dunn not juicing, I think the fact that speculation has entirely neglected him speaks to the fact that he's clean. There wouldn't be many easier targets considering his consistent power numbers. I mean, even after one of the historically worst seasons in baseball history and a subsequent return to form, nobody has even brought up the harbinger of steroid use and I consider that to be a pretty solid bet in these days of conclusion jumping.

Is this like the Chewbaca Defense?

If I right now speculate that he is juicing will that mean he is a juicer? Love the logic.

 

[All The Hype]

Ok, name me a player, any player, with 500 hr's or more that has not been tied to peds, who isn't in the hall.


/thread.

This is the best post of the entire thread. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Frow]

This is the best post of the entire thread. Couldn't have said it better.

Well he said....ANY player, more than 500, and not in the hall so..

Jim Thome
Frank Thomas

Given that people aren't trying to pull Pud Galvin out of the hall or ever mention him this PED thing is just a fad that will fade. One of the big 3 will get enshrined this year and then no one will care in a year or two.

 

[thefatguy]

Frank Thomas


...was the only player to actively participate in the Mitchell Investigation, and was an outspoken advocate of MLB drug testing.

His HOF plaque should read that.

Junior has 600+


He was accused of sleeping, not cheating

 

[All The Hype]

Well he said....ANY player, more than 500, and not in the hall so..

Jim Thome
Frank Thomas

Given that people aren't trying to pull Pud Galvin out of the hall or ever mention him this PED thing is just a fad that will fade. One of the big 3 will get enshrined this year and then no one will care in a year or two.

Frank Thomas is not eligible yet and will be a 1st ballot selection.

Jim Thome plays for the Baltimore Orioles so he is obviously not eligible yet either. When he is, he will be a 1st ballot selection as well.

For all players with 500+ HR who have had a shot at the Hall and are not suspected of using PEDs, there are zero who have not made it in.

 

[Frow]

Frank Thomas is not eligible yet and will be a 1st ballot selection.

Jim Thome plays for the Baltimore Orioles so he is obviously not eligible yet either. When he is, he will be a 1st ballot selection as well.

For all players with 500+ HR who have had a shot at the Hall and are not suspected of using PEDs, there are zero who have not made it in.

Yea...it was a joke kind of since that distinction wasn't in the original question. A few of the PEDs players haven't even had their first year of eligibility yet so it's just as early to say no peds player makes it in as it is to say no 500 player that hasn't been linked to peds hasn't made it either. Give the list of 500 players coming up to vote:

McGwire
Palmero
Bonds
F. Thomas
Ken Griffey Jr.
Jim Thome
Alex Rodriguez
Sammy Sosa
Manny Ramirez
Gary Sheffield

Probables: Dunn, Pujols

There's still time...

Depending on the cyclic nature of baseball we could even see Braun, Fielder, or a few others if they stay healthy or pick it up

 

[elmalo]

I know those that have been confirmed, and that is basically enough to eliminate many of the guys who finished above him on an annual basis. As far as Dunn not juicing, I think the fact that speculation has entirely neglected him speaks to the fact that he's clean. There wouldn't be many easier targets considering his consistent power numbers. I mean, even after one of the historically worst seasons in baseball history and a subsequent return to form, nobody has even brought up the harbinger of steroid use and I consider that to be a pretty solid bet in these days of conclusion jumping.

And how many people did you not hear a peep about, until you heard that they failed a test? Tests that are completely unreliable in the first place. I also recall all of those op ed pieces about how great it was going to be when AROD broke the home run record bc he had no accusations against him and the record would be clean and pure, and then he got caught.

 

[elmalo]

Frank Thomas


...was the only player to actively participate in the Mitchell Investigation, and was an outspoken advocate of MLB drug testing.

His HOF plaque should read that.

Junior has 600+


He was accused of sleeping, not cheating

So bc he spoke out against it that makes him innocent? I think I recall Big Papi saying that if you get caught you should be banned for life, and then he got caught.

 

[thefatguy]

So bc he spoke out against it that makes him innocent? I think I recall Big Papi saying that if you get caught you should be banned for life, and then he got caught.

Yes

I dont give a XXXX about Papi

The Mitchell Report also stated that interviews were requested of five MLB players who had spoken out publicly on the steroid issue. Of these players, only one, Frank Thomas, was willing to be interviewed.

For me, I’ve always been my own man. No one’s going to tell me not to talk to anyone, especially when I’ve got nothing to hide.
…
“There were a lot of guys who wanted to speak out,” Thomas said. “I’m glad I did speak out, because if I didn’t I would’ve been on that list of ‘Wouldn’t talk to George Mitchell.’ That would’ve put a stain on my career and I’m not going to let anyone stain my career.”
…
“It’s obvious now that there were a lot of guys involved with steroids and HGH. I’m shocked, because I played in that era and had to compete against it. But I’m shocked there were so many guys involved.”

As for his own approach while opponents cheated, he said:
“We just saw great players become amazing players. Wow, I got to witness it, I got to play against it,” Thomas said. “It wasn’t just the hitters it was the pitchers also. I went from seeing guys paint around 91-92 MPH to it seemed like the whole staff throwing above 95. The game definitely changed right before my eyes. But me being the hard worker, it was, ‘I got to work a little bit harder, these guys are catching up to me fast.’
“I’m happy to go home now and sleep very, very soundly every night not wondering if someone is going to call me to figure out what happened back in such and such and such, because I’m sure there are a lot of guys going home right now still worried”

Always eager to step into the fray is Frank Thomas. If Frank ever used steroids, he's the best bluffer alive, because he's been railing against the stuff and demanding testing and more rigorous punishment since the mid-90's. Keenly aware of his legacy, Thomas sees an era where offensive production exploded alongside the usage of performance-enhancing supplements the he abstained from, and can't help but think that he was screwed out of greater recognition for his transcendent work. He clearly still seethes from his 2nd place finish in the 2000 AL MVP vote to admitted-juicer Jason Giambi, and now sees a compatriot in Matt Kemp, who just lost the NL MVP vote to Ryan Braun.

"It only bothered me that my career could have been a lot, lot better because the pitchers were just as involved (in steroids use)," Thomas said. "The pitchers caught up to my level of talent because of drugs.
"It's one of those things that, yes, I'm a little upset.
My career could have been better."

So should this: From 1991-97, he became the first major leaguer in history to bat .300 with at least 20 home runs, 100 RBIs, 100 runs scored and 100 walks in seven consecutive seasons, a feat not matched by icons including Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Ted Williams.

And on and on it goes