Bat vs. Bat Knob: Am I Going Crazy?!

[predatorkj]

Well, it proves one thing...GU still is alive and well. At least certain GU is.

 

[rsmath]

This discussion comes up pretty frequently in autograph circles. Why do cut autograph cards produced by Topps or UD cost so much more than other auto'd items? I think the answer is simple (and pretty obvious given the present milieu): people like baseball cards.

I like CERTIFIED baseball cards - that's why I tend to gravitate towards spending a little more on certified baseball card autos for a niche component of the PC than buying cards that sellers claim they got in person at AZL or spring training or MLB/MiLB games. I certainly trust topps/panini/UD/razor/leaf's on-card certification more and it likely gives me more legal recourse if some bombshell ever hits the hobby and I might need to take legal action over something being certified as authentic by those companies but its not.

 

[rsmath]

They already do:

I have some of those but I doubt they are a true cross section. I think they are just jumbo bat chips.

I'm taking cards should be made that are true cross sections and the size of your cross section tells you about where on the bat it was cut from.

 

[ChasHawk]

I have some of those but I doubt they are a true cross section. I think they are just jumbo bat chips.

I'm taking cards should be made that are true cross sections and the size of your cross section tells you about where on the bat it was cut from.

There was a set made like that several years ago.

 

[predatorkj]

I like CERTIFIED baseball cards - that's why I tend to gravitate towards spending a little more on certified baseball card autos for a niche component of the PC than buying cards that sellers claim they got in person at AZL or spring training or MLB/MiLB games. I certainly trust topps/panini/UD/razor/leaf's on-card certification more and it likely gives me more legal recourse if some bombshell ever hits the hobby and I might need to take legal action over something being certified as authentic by those companies but its not.

Well it depends on the card. I'll buy anything with Bagwell on it and just because I'm going after his stuff. But for a lot of other players, I want their auto. A nice clean auto that is certified by Topps or whomever the company is. And as long as it fits my requirement of being certified and looking nice, I continually pay less than the normal price I would have to pay to acquire a PSA/DNA or JSA certified autographed ball, bat, or any other item. For instance I recently picked up a gu'd auto'd card out of Upper Deck of Alex Rodriguez. Got it for $60 or so. Now find me a ball or bat for that much. Picked up a David Price BC rookie auto for $35ish. Get me a ball signed by him that's certified for that much. Picked up an Andrew McCutchen auto'd rookie for about $40ish. Again, find me a ball or Bat for that much. I could go on and on.

So it works both ways. My collection certainly depends on it. But we've brought this up before...can it last? Will people continue to pay out the rear when every year new cards are made that are low numbered but with the same old player's auto or GU on it? For older players it's a little easier. I haven't been happy with Topps and Panini releasing new cards of Bagwell but I've been able to manage so far. And I've got a good portion of his old checklist knocked out so far( about 150 or so less than 2/3rd's knocked out). So I'm cool. But if I was super collecting a guy who came out in 2003 or later, I would have pulled every strand of my hair out by now. Because everything is going to cost me out the rear.

 

[Juan Gris]

I like CERTIFIED baseball cards - that's why I tend to gravitate towards spending a little more on certified baseball card autos for a niche component of the PC than buying cards that sellers claim they got in person at AZL or spring training or MLB/MiLB games. I certainly trust topps/panini/UD/razor/leaf's on-card certification more and it likely gives me more legal recourse if some bombshell ever hits the hobby and I might need to take legal action over something being certified as authentic by those companies but its not.

I am exactly the same way when it comes to autograph cards. I want the middleman to be the card company that has a legally binding contract with the player, not some 3rd party giving his best educated guess.

I have some of those but I doubt they are a true cross section. I think they are just jumbo bat chips.

I'm taking cards should be made that are true cross sections and the size of your cross section tells you about where on the bat it was cut from.

That could absolutely be a true cross section, especially from the smaller-diameter of the bat handle. The wood billets (the cylinders that are shaved into the bat shape) are cut parallel to the length of the tree so the wood rings would look like that in a cross section cut perpendicular through the bat.

 

[A_Pharis]

I have some of those but I doubt they are a true cross section. I think they are just jumbo bat chips.

I'm taking cards should be made that are true cross sections and the size of your cross section tells you about where on the bat it was cut from.

 

[MansGame]

That's very cool. Never seen that. Surprised they were this detailed. Very neat.

 

[Lancemountain]

Not sure if this point was made as admittedly I have read not one post in this thread.....

besides the fact that card collectors collect cards.....if I wanted an Adam Dunn gamer I could buy one this week. Wouldn't really be hard at all, just would take money. But a card embedded with a bat knob takes production, design and then pack out....and then acquisition. Card collectors like the chase. I have a certain super from a low ripped set for a player collection of mine and I rate it so high as the likelihood of it ever getting to me was so slim.

 

[Lancemountain]

actually I'll use [MENTION=3754]MansGame[/MENTION] since he's right above me as an example.

Buying a Belle gamer probably would not have been hard for him. It just takes cash. But that bat barrel he has in the sig took so much more to acquire.....besides the fact that it's dimensions and such fit into card collecting.

 

[rsmath]

thanks for the education about that type of bat relic existing.

 

[A_Pharis]

thanks for the education about that type of bat relic existing.

I think they did it for another release, too. It's interesting to me that you can get them from almost any part of the bat, and they're labeled as such. Great concept.

 

[Juan Gris]

Those are cool! What year of TSC are those from?

Not sure if this point was made as admittedly I have read not one post in this thread.....

besides the fact that card collectors collect cards.....if I wanted an Adam Dunn gamer I could buy one this week. Wouldn't really be hard at all, just would take money. But a card embedded with a bat knob takes production, design and then pack out....and then acquisition. Card collectors like the chase. I have a certain super from a low ripped set for a player collection of mine and I rate it so high as the likelihood of it ever getting to me was so slim.

I understand what you're saying and you are correct about being able to get a Dunn gamer within a week. You could get a gamer of just about any player within a week, with the right kind of connections and a deep enough wallet. The fallacy with your comparison is that not all game used bats, like game used cards, are equal. I have bats that show light use (the kind you might be able to find in a week) and I have bats that are absolutely pounded with use. These gamers are the kind that take time and luck to acquire... like with a bat knob card! Through a lot of time and research on my part, I was even able to photo match one of my bats to 8 year old pictures of Dunn using my bat in multiple games. Cream of the crop game used bats are virtually as rare as bat knob cards (which I can all but guarantee you, contain a knob from a bat with light use and little significance). The comparison should be generic game used bats to generic game used bat cards and the very best game used bats to bat knob cards.

I bet the card companies make a ton of money (all things considered) by cutting up bats of modern players like Dunn (relatively low cost to acquire these bats) and inserting the pieces into product over the years. When it comes to a game used bat of Ruth caliber (high acquisition cost), I'd be interested to see someone break down the cost of the bat to how much the pieces put into cards would sell for (knob, nameplate and the rest of the bat). Anyone know around how many normal size pieces of bat a Ruth gamer could produce?

 

[klute14]

I have gone around and around on this question... I've posted that I've purchased all three of my gamer bats of Albert Belle for around $100 each and yet a nameplate Belle goes for $300 or something like that. Belle has three bat knobs that I've never seen and don't own any but when they show up on eBay one day, I can bet you a hamburger they don't go for $100 unless the seller is drunk or stoned or both.

That all said, I think the real answer is some people collect full game used memorabilia and some people collect cards and some people collect both. I've heard the argument about some people just want a card and not a full bat, blah blah blah. Someone has already said that it's serial numbered 1/1 most of the time and that in itself changes it's value, what it is, etc.

What I do know is Aristotle is full of sh!t with is famous quote "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts"

Wow, I wish I could be so lucky...
I have paid substantially more for my Rice and Parker gamers...

 

[A_Pharis]

Those are cool! What year of TSC are those from?

2003.



2002 and 2003 also had these. Different size slices were available, but they weren't labeled differently:

 

[MansGame]

So we're coming to the conclusion that we can tell whether the relic bat piece is from a cross section or not? Or we can tell because the card is labeled that way? Just curious.

 

[ChasHawk]

So we're coming to the conclusion that we can tell whether the relic bat piece is from a cross section or not? Or we can tell because the card is labeled that way? Just curious.

Look at a full gamer.

Which direction does the grain of the wood flow?

 

[A_Pharis]

Cross-cuts will have the slightly "bowed" lines - since each line represents a ring in the tree ( I believe ). Bat "chips" tend to have straighter (overall) markings, because the marks are from the cut intersecting the rings vertically.

 

[Juan Gris]

So we're coming to the conclusion that we can tell whether the relic bat piece is from a cross section or not? Or we can tell because the card is labeled that way? Just curious.

Absolutely! The rings in the wood (the "grains") indicate it is a cross section. Look at the top end of a bat barrel and you can count the number of grains running through the bat. Those more or less run straight down through the bat depending on the slope of the grain. When Louisville Slugger stamps their logo and the player's signature on a bat, they do so on the area with the lowest grain concentration. When a player swings a bat they are told to connect with the ball where there is the highest concentration of grains as this makes better for better impact and the bat is less likely to break. In other words, a player should hold the bat with the label facing themselves and make contact to the left or right side of the logo (depends whether they are left or right-handed). Tony Gwynn was known to expertly make contact in the same small area of his bats.

 

[timthomas]

I prefer full game used item too. However at one point I had 10 game used bat and it was just hard to find a place to store them.