HOLY COW What a RIDICULOUS Patch!

[homerun28aa]

Just so you know

Im the owner of that clemente card.

Ive been collecting since 1968 and I detest Patch factories and people who falsely accuse real hobbyists of being a patch factory.

I pulled that clemente card at Baseball Plus on Mid river sdr in St Peters Mo two days before Xmas from a case of Sterling I bought and Busted there in Person.

Not only is it real but the shop owner , 4 customers and topps themselves validity the card and the piece of material in the card.

Again if you still have doubts then come on down and see my other 2 million plus cards, plus meet Mark the shop owner. Mark, the shop patrons and myself all had to go change are undies after i pulled that delicious card.

So thansk for the defense guys who defended me and know me and to the rest.. Innocent before proven guilty! Remember that as you travail thru life, it may serve you well..

One more thing.. I dont buy stuff on ebay for fear of being got by the patch factories! Id advise the same to you!

Congrats on that incredible pull, I'm interested what the critics who claim to be experts have to say now.

 

[George_Calfas]

Just so you know

Im the owner of that clemente card.

Ive been collecting since 1968 and I detest Patch factories and people who falsely accuse real hobbyists of being a patch factory.

I pulled that clemente card at Baseball Plus on Mid river sdr in St Peters Mo two days before Xmas from a case of Sterling I bought and Busted there in Person.

Congrats on the pull. In my opinion this card is more a question towards Topps than the patch fakers. Having no reason to doubt you pulled the card one must wonder if A). Topps in fact did not use Clemente Gamer in this card, B). purchased a fake Gamer (see pending litigation), or C). the dates on the laundry tags are a tad off.

 

[Russ S.]

George Beat me to it. :ugeek:

homerun28aa: The patch or jersey isn't legit. It's not hard to understand. '72 vs. '74. Topps Screwed the pooch.

oasis: Congrats on the great pull. Topps screwed you though. And congrats on the **** of pants creaming.
Welcome.

 

[George_Calfas]

George Beat me to it. :ugeek:

I have a pretty fast trigger finger.

 

[homerun28aa]

George Beat me to it. :ugeek:

homerun28aa: The patch or jersey isn't legit. It's not hard to understand. '72 vs. '74. Topps Screwed the pooch.

oasis: Congrats on the great pull. Topps screwed you though. And congrats on the **** of pants creaming.
Welcome.

So now you're an expert? What about option C George brought up...

C). the dates on the laundry tags are a tad off.


That isn't possible?

 

[Russ S.]

C). the dates on the laundry tags are a tad off.
That isn't possible?

Sure, but it took 5 pages and 3 days for you to find someone with more logical sense for you to agree with?

 

[homerun28aa]

C). the dates on the laundry tags are a tad off.
That isn't possible?

Sure, but it took 5 pages and 3 days for you to find someone with more logical sense for you to agree with?

If you read some of my points that is the point I've been preaching ever since Chas posted those tags. I guess I'm just defending this stuff since I have thousands upon thousands of dollars invested in game used because I believe that I'm purchasing items worn/used by the best legends in the history of the game.

 

[oasis]

here are high resolution scans of the front and back

as you can see there is no tampering. The back has Topps standard verbage without addressing make, player model etc.

I also researched the history of the Wilson tag and find that in All double knit uniforms and the Pirates were the first , this verbage is identical thereby illustrating that the general consensus of the link referring to Wilson Tags is clearly not as accurate as one is led to belive.

The Pirates were the first team to wear the double knits followed by most major league teams in 1974. Anyone who knows laundry will tell you that the tag for the old flannel or cotton jerseys would vary considerably to the tag worn only by the Pirates in 1971 and 1972 Robertos last season.

If you would like and someone knows a valid contact at Topps I would be happy to submit these photos to them for verification.

If it is a fake Topps would be swimming in a lawsuit faster than I could make your heads swim, but that being said, Mark from Baseball PLus contacted Topps on my behalf in early 2009 and we verfied together that this card was made.. It was never intended to be a 1/1 but one of 10 special jumbo swatches Topps inserted into Topps Sterling.. Some of those 10 were not even patches but just big old grey swatches!

I think at one time or another Topps provided Mark a picture of all ten of these together.

Thanks for your concern!

 

[Russ S.]

If you read some of my points that is the point I've been preaching ever since Chas posted those tags. I guess I'm just defending this stuff since I have thousands upon thousands of dollars invested in game used because I believe that I'm purchasing items worn/used by the best legends in the history of the game.

You are preaching to the chore here bud. I'm not trying to gang up on you.
I have/had plenty of high end nice Patches and still do.
But the proof is in the pudding on this one man.

 

[oasis]

Just so I vcan also end any argument about the uniform being double knit

http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/pit/h ... _logos.jsp

In particular

1970: The Pirates became the first major league club to adopt the new double-knit fabric uniforms, which they debuted at the first game at the new Three Rivers Stadium. The jersey became a pullover with no button or zipper. The pants contained a built-in sash belt. The cap crown was mustard yellow with a black bill. Within two years, nearly every other club was wearing a double-knit uniform.


So know please.. lets get the Laundry tag anlysis guy on the phone and crucify him for his inaccuracies!

 

[oasis]

If you read some of my points that is the point I've been preaching ever since Chas posted those tags. I guess I'm just defending this stuff since I have thousands upon thousands of dollars invested in game used because I believe that I'm purchasing items worn/used by the best legends in the history of the game.

You are preaching to the chore here bud. I'm not trying to gang up on you.
I have/had plenty of high end nice Patches and still do.
But the proof is in the pudding on this one man.

Really..
Have you researched laundry tags and their history?

Cause I will tell you the quoted expert everyone is basing this on did not take into account that the Pirates wore double knit unis in 1971 and 1972 as opposed to the flannel or cotton ones!

Again you have no proof and no pudding!

 

[Russ S.]

And you have no balls to go after Topps for screwing the pooch.

Kudos to you.

 

[homerun28aa]

And you have no balls to go after Topps for screwing the pooch.

Kudos to you.

Guy just proved to you that the Pirates started using those jerseys in 1970 when most did in 1974. He showed you proof of this on the Pirates website, now you're just being pure stubborn.

 

[oasis]

I have reached out to the site moderator of gameused universe with this question

Dear sirs,

Is it possbile that your analysis of the Wilson Laundry Tag pre 1974 failed to include that the Pirates wore double knit uniforms from 1970-1973 being the first team to do so

See this card for instances I own

Clearly Roberto passed awy in december 1972 and yet your illustrated example would go so far as to say Topps inserted a Fake laundry tag into this card I pulled from a pack.

We are engaged in a very detailed argument on freedom cardboard.com regarding the validitiy of the patch above. Topps claims its authentic.. What do you think? Is it possible that your wilson tag example fails to account for the Pirates Uniforms pre 1974?

Lets see what he has to say

 

[oasis]

And you have no balls to go after Topps for screwing the pooch.

Kudos to you.

As I said Mr Russ S

Topps claimed to me that it was authentic, they also claimed it to a very respected dealer here in St Louis.

If you would like please provide me a name and contact at Topps and I will take it up with them again for whatever proof you may need. I dont know if even that will be enough for you..But I will be able to do so if you can provide me a contact.


So please I await your contact!

 

[George_Calfas]

1972 Roberto Clemente Gamer: Home Jersey---Produced by Rawlings
http://catalog.greyflannelauctions.com/ ... otid=22632

1972 Pirates Road Jerseys were grey similar to the grey in the above card.

Did teams have separate companies providing Jerseys?

 

[George_Calfas]

And you have no balls to go after Topps for screwing the pooch.

Kudos to you.

As I said Mr Russ S

Topps claimed to me that it was authentic, they also claimed it to a very respected dealer here in St Louis.

If you would like please provide me a name and contact at Topps and I will take it up with them again for whatever proof you may need. I dont know if even that will be enough for you..But I will be able to do so if you can provide me a contact.


So please I await your contact!

If they bought a fake gamer and inserted it into cards do you think they would tell any of us? This is why the current litigation is important. So many jerseys were bought by Topps and others; they thought they were buying Star player "X" when in fact they were buying common player "Y".

 

[oasis]

Oh did anyone really read that note on gameused universe

"A short primer on Wilson tagging for MLB jerseys - late 60's to late 90's.
**NOTE: the image/primer/information below does NOT apply jerseys that have been tagged in the neck. Wilson neck tagging can often differ from Wilson body tagging during the same year. EG: Toronto Blue Jays tagging during the early-mid 90's. The information below has been collected and cross-referenced against itself from various unrelated sources. Although great effort has been made to get the transitional years exact, they may be off by 1. Also, given that some teams seem to recycle jerseys for years, it would not be surprising to see a circa 1984 Wilson tagging on a jersey that has been year tagged as 1989."

 

[nyc3]

Oh did anyone really read that note on gameused universe

"A short primer on Wilson tagging for MLB jerseys - late 60's to late 90's.
**NOTE: the image/primer/information below does NOT apply jerseys that have been tagged in the neck. Wilson neck tagging can often differ from Wilson body tagging during the same year. EG: Toronto Blue Jays tagging during the early-mid 90's. The information below has been collected and cross-referenced against itself from various unrelated sources. Although great effort has been made to get the transitional years exact, they may be off by 1. Also, given that some teams seem to recycle jerseys for years, it would not be surprising to see a circa 1984 Wilson tagging on a jersey that has been year tagged as 1989."

Yes but that dont apply to jerseys made after his death. It only applys to jerseys from previous seasons. So 1984 in 1986 is ok BUT a 1986 in 1984 absolutely not unless of course Doc and the delorian are around I am not sure how a player can wear a jersey before its made.

 

[oasis]

1972 Roberto Clemente Gamer: Home Jersey---Produced by Rawlings
http://catalog.greyflannelauctions.com/ ... otid=22632

1972 Pirates Road Jerseys were grey similar to the grey in the above card.

Did teams have separate companies providing Jerseys?

That was the exact reason we contacted Topps in the first place..

We were led to believe that yes, the priates gray double knits were made by Wilson in 1971 . We have no idea what year the jersey was taken from only that it was a road gray! My assumption has always been a 1971 road jersey!