how many cases of razor rookie retro were produced?

[Leaf]

I am not sure why anyone would be disappointed we did not announce print run.
Most companies DO NOT EVER announce print run. The fact that we sometimes do shouldnt be a negative when we do not.

The print run was set at a level designed to give everyone a fair chance to buy the product at a fair markup (no artificial scarcity).

Trust me, the print run is moderate. We showed very reasonable restraint.
We could have sold at least 100-200 more cases than we produced.
We never announced a print run, thus the cases arent numbered. No one should be surprised.

Hope this helps.. We will do our best to share print runs whenever possible.
BG

 

[jjj7880]

I have a case ordered Brian and I can't wait to bust it! I'll do a live break via usstream when I get it in!

 

[jondawg04]

Sorry to bounce off topic, but any word on an exact release date on the MMA checklist, Brian? Know you said it'd be out this week, and iv'e been wanting to get the pre order in, but holding off til I can see the official checklist.

 

[Leaf]

Sorry to bounce off topic, but any word on an exact release date on the MMA checklist, Brian? Know you said it'd be out this week, and iv'e been wanting to get the pre order in, but holding off til I can see the official checklist.

Thursday... we just put up scans of some actual brock and fedor autographs on our site www.leaftradingcards.com
BG

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

I thought I read somewhere that only 299 cases were being produced, with 6 boxes per case, meaning 1794 boxes/packs/cards.

This was speculated by a poster on a thread when we announced this.
I immedately came on and said that we were not announcing a print run.
I can say there are more than 299. However, we sold out quite easily so I would expect the qty produced was just right.
BG

LOL.
How PC of you.

So another words, no clue if there are 50 Ripkens, or 4 Ripkens.
Still recycled blah.
At the pricing, unless you like wasting your hard earned money on coke, hookers, and cards, you are better off just buying the card you want on line.
Just my 2 pesos.

Good Luck to those "fortunate" gamblers. Enjoy the coke.

As someone who bought two cases direct, I am pretty disappointed with that answer as well. Very weak.

Guys,
This is no "defense of razor" post by a moderator, just making that clear from the start.

Razor Rookie Retro has always been a repackaged product where the only one guaranteed to make bank is Brian Gray. But how is that different than any other product? The only one guaranteed to make money is the manufacturer. You take the good with the bad. BG hasn't stated the total run, perhaps that opens him to make more, but I'm guessing that he's done. Who cares what the odds are on that single Strasburg Super or the Heyward super, or the Michael Jordan Rookies, or the Durant Rookie Autos, and so on and so on. He's already given you 90% of the info. He's already said the worst case is $500 to $600 return...which is about a 60% loss. If you opened every case you'd lose 30% of your money. He already stated that his cost was 80% of wholesale, wholesale was probably around 200, maybe a little higher. So if you're paying $220 to $225 a pack, then it's about a 30% loss across the whole run. This is already known. This product is a gamble in a slightly different way than a new release product in that the value of each card is really already determined, prices fluctuate, and with strasburg going down, these cases will yield even less value than what BG put into it. Sure, Posey's have gone up, some others have as well, but the Strasburg probably wouldn't sell for $10K at this point, and that is half it's previous value. (waiting for BG to come in and say he'd buy it back for that price). All this to say, there is no reason to whine and moan about this product, it is what it is. If you want a ticket for a chance at a card you couldn't afford, then you gotta pony up 2 bills, otherwise, sit back and watch most people get hosed and a few people get really lucky.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

well said Jim

I thought I read somewhere that only 299 cases were being produced, with 6 boxes per case, meaning 1794 boxes/packs/cards.

This was speculated by a poster on a thread when we announced this.
I immedately came on and said that we were not announcing a print run.
I can say there are more than 299. However, we sold out quite easily so I would expect the qty produced was just right.
BG

LOL.
How PC of you.

So another words, no clue if there are 50 Ripkens, or 4 Ripkens.
Still recycled blah.
At the pricing, unless you like wasting your hard earned money on coke, hookers, and cards, you are better off just buying the card you want on line.
Just my 2 pesos.

Good Luck to those "fortunate" gamblers. Enjoy the coke.

As someone who bought two cases direct, I am pretty disappointed with that answer as well. Very weak.

Guys,
This is no "defense of razor" post by a moderator, just making that clear from the start.

Razor Rookie Retro has always been a repackaged product where the only one guaranteed to make bank is Brian Gray. But how is that different than any other product? The only one guaranteed to make money is the manufacturer. You take the good with the bad. BG hasn't stated the total run, perhaps that opens him to make more, but I'm guessing that he's done. Who cares what the odds are on that single Strasburg Super or the Heyward super, or the Michael Jordan Rookies, or the Durant Rookie Autos, and so on and so on. He's already given you 90% of the info. He's already said the worst case is $500 to $600 return...which is about a 60% loss. If you opened every case you'd lose 30% of your money. He already stated that his cost was 80% of wholesale, wholesale was probably around 200, maybe a little higher. So if you're paying $220 to $225 a pack, then it's about a 30% loss across the whole run. This is already known. This product is a gamble in a slightly different way than a new release product in that the value of each card is really already determined, prices fluctuate, and with strasburg going down, these cases will yield even less value than what BG put into it. Sure, Posey's have gone up, some others have as well, but the Strasburg probably wouldn't sell for $10K at this point, and that is half it's previous value. (waiting for BG to come in and say he'd buy it back for that price). All this to say, there is no reason to whine and moan about this product, it is what it is. If you want a ticket for a chance at a card you couldn't afford, then you gotta pony up 2 bills, otherwise, sit back and watch most people get hosed and a few people get really lucky.

 

[Leaf]

Jim,
I just might buy that Strasburg back at $10k!
Even though he's gotten softer, I still think there are 4-5 guys that would easily pay $10k. The question is where would they stop.... $15k?
BG

 

[Casebusters]

Jim,
I just might buy that Strasburg back at $10k!
Even though he's gotten softer, I still think there are 4-5 guys that would easily pay $10k. The question is where would they stop.... $15k?
BG

I'll take 15k for it!

 

[SportsCardMojo]

Here's a question for those who bought a case(s). While cracking open the first few boxes, you come across a real stunner, do you not open the rest of the boxes in that case?

If I opened the first box and it was the Jayson Heyward Super...I don't know if I could get myself to open the rest of the boxes in the case.

Would it be wrong for me to flip the rest of the boxes on ebay? :shock:

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

Here's a question for those who bought a case(s). While cracking open the first few boxes, you come across a real stunner, do you not open the rest of the boxes in that case?

If I opened the first box and it was the Jayson Heyward Super...I don't know if I could get myself to open the rest of the boxes in the case.

Would it be wrong for me to flip the rest of the boxes on ebay? :shock:

Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to.

 

[Casebusters]

Here's a question for those who bought a case(s). While cracking open the first few boxes, you come across a real stunner, do you not open the rest of the boxes in that case?

If I opened the first box and it was the Jayson Heyward Super...I don't know if I could get myself to open the rest of the boxes in the case.

Would it be wrong for me to flip the rest of the boxes on ebay? :shock:

If you hit a $5000 card , you wouldn't open the rest just to see?
I would open the rest!

 

[SportsCardMojo]

That's a good point. But if you get a $5000 card, the odds are the rest of the case won't measure up. I'd probably sell the remaining boxes and buy another case. Yes...I know that's evil. But I'm quickly becoming broke since "rediscovering" this hobby. If this was my first purchase coming back to collecting, then I'd agree with you. I'd open the rest of the boxes to start my collection.

DAMN YOU NATIONAL CONVENTION IN BALTIMORE, YOU TOOK ALL MY MONEY!!! But it was so much fun!!!

 

[maxpower]

I thought I read somewhere that only 299 cases were being produced, with 6 boxes per case, meaning 1794 boxes/packs/cards.

This was speculated by a poster on a thread when we announced this.
I immedately came on and said that we were not announcing a print run.
I can say there are more than 299. However, we sold out quite easily so I would expect the qty produced was just right.
BG

LOL.
How PC of you.

So another words, no clue if there are 50 Ripkens, or 4 Ripkens.
Still recycled blah.
At the pricing, unless you like wasting your hard earned money on coke, hookers, and cards, you are better off just buying the card you want on line.
Just my 2 pesos.

Good Luck to those "fortunate" gamblers. Enjoy the coke.

As someone who bought two cases direct, I am pretty disappointed with that answer as well. Very weak.

Guys,
This is no "defense of razor" post by a moderator, just making that clear from the start.

Razor Rookie Retro has always been a repackaged product where the only one guaranteed to make bank is Brian Gray. But how is that different than any other product? The only one guaranteed to make money is the manufacturer. You take the good with the bad. BG hasn't stated the total run, perhaps that opens him to make more, but I'm guessing that he's done. Who cares what the odds are on that single Strasburg Super or the Heyward super, or the Michael Jordan Rookies, or the Durant Rookie Autos, and so on and so on. He's already given you 90% of the info. He's already said the worst case is $500 to $600 return...which is about a 60% loss. If you opened every case you'd lose 30% of your money. He already stated that his cost was 80% of wholesale, wholesale was probably around 200, maybe a little higher. So if you're paying $220 to $225 a pack, then it's about a 30% loss across the whole run. This is already known. This product is a gamble in a slightly different way than a new release product in that the value of each card is really already determined, prices fluctuate, and with strasburg going down, these cases will yield even less value than what BG put into it. Sure, Posey's have gone up, some others have as well, but the Strasburg probably wouldn't sell for $10K at this point, and that is half it's previous value. (waiting for BG to come in and say he'd buy it back for that price). All this to say, there is no reason to whine and moan about this product, it is what it is. If you want a ticket for a chance at a card you couldn't afford, then you gotta pony up 2 bills, otherwise, sit back and watch most people get hosed and a few people get really lucky.

I agree with most of what you say, but I still think it's a HUGE leap of faith for someone to just take BG at his word that he's not going to water down the product by producing more. A similar leap of faith is required to trust that the "minimum return" will be $500.

I'm not that familiar with the personal relationships on FCB, so perhaps you know something that I don't, but as just an average collector, I'm concerned about the lack of transparency. As you say, Brian Gray has given us most of the relevant information. However, I'm not sure what the purpose of hiding the print run is. I don't believe Brian has ever addressed the reasoning, but I'd welcome an honest explanation.

Don't take this as a blanket condemnation of Razor/Leaf or the product. I love the idea of this product and have defended the concept in previous posts. I just think the open-ended print run is a big red flag.

 

[nyc3]

I agree with most of what you say, but I still think it's a HUGE leap of faith for someone to just take BG at his word that he's not going to water down the product by producing more. A similar leap of faith is required to trust that the "minimum return" will be $500.

I'm not that familiar with the personal relationships on FCB, so perhaps you know something that I don't, but as just an average collector, I'm concerned about the lack of transparency. As you say, Brian Gray has given us most of the relevant information. However, I'm not sure what the purpose of hiding the print run is. I don't believe Brian has ever addressed the reasoning, but I'd welcome an honest explanation.

Don't take this as a blanket condemnation of Razor/Leaf or the product. I love the idea of this product and have defended the concept in previous posts. I just think the open-ended print run is a big red flag.

Dont bother yourself you wont get a straight answer. They will tell you how different they are from topps then in the same breath tell you they wont be releasing the print run numbers cause topps dont do it. They dont seem to get the reason the big boys do this is because they can while it may not be strong they have the collectors trust for the most part. But you on the other hand are supposed to believe someone who has said many things in the past which have changed weeks sometimes months later. Just do yourself a favor and stand back and watch the collectors get toasted again, there is a reason most local shops dont carry this "stuff".

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

[quote="GAbballplayer148":2kfk9d8b]I thought I read somewhere that only 299 cases were being produced, with 6 boxes per case, meaning 1794 boxes/packs/cards.

This was speculated by a poster on a thread when we announced this.
I immedately came on and said that we were not announcing a print run.
I can say there are more than 299. However, we sold out quite easily so I would expect the qty produced was just right.
BG

LOL.
How PC of you.

So another words, no clue if there are 50 Ripkens, or 4 Ripkens.
Still recycled blah.
At the pricing, unless you like wasting your hard earned money on coke, hookers, and cards, you are better off just buying the card you want on line.
Just my 2 pesos.

Good Luck to those "fortunate" gamblers. Enjoy the coke.

As someone who bought two cases direct, I am pretty disappointed with that answer as well. Very weak.

Guys,
This is no "defense of razor" post by a moderator, just making that clear from the start.

Razor Rookie Retro has always been a repackaged product where the only one guaranteed to make bank is Brian Gray. But how is that different than any other product? The only one guaranteed to make money is the manufacturer. You take the good with the bad. BG hasn't stated the total run, perhaps that opens him to make more, but I'm guessing that he's done. Who cares what the odds are on that single Strasburg Super or the Heyward super, or the Michael Jordan Rookies, or the Durant Rookie Autos, and so on and so on. He's already given you 90% of the info. He's already said the worst case is $500 to $600 return...which is about a 60% loss. If you opened every case you'd lose 30% of your money. He already stated that his cost was 80% of wholesale, wholesale was probably around 200, maybe a little higher. So if you're paying $220 to $225 a pack, then it's about a 30% loss across the whole run. This is already known. This product is a gamble in a slightly different way than a new release product in that the value of each card is really already determined, prices fluctuate, and with strasburg going down, these cases will yield even less value than what BG put into it. Sure, Posey's have gone up, some others have as well, but the Strasburg probably wouldn't sell for $10K at this point, and that is half it's previous value. (waiting for BG to come in and say he'd buy it back for that price). All this to say, there is no reason to whine and moan about this product, it is what it is. If you want a ticket for a chance at a card you couldn't afford, then you gotta pony up 2 bills, otherwise, sit back and watch most people get hosed and a few people get really lucky.

I agree with most of what you say, but I still think it's a HUGE leap of faith for someone to just take BG at his word that he's not going to water down the product by producing more. A similar leap of faith is required to trust that the "minimum return" will be $500.

I'm not that familiar with the personal relationships on FCB, so perhaps you know something that I don't, but as just an average collector, I'm concerned about the lack of transparency. As you say, Brian Gray has given us most of the relevant information. However, I'm not sure what the purpose of hiding the print run is. I don't believe Brian has ever addressed the reasoning, but I'd welcome an honest explanation.

Don't take this as a blanket condemnation of Razor/Leaf or the product. I love the idea of this product and have defended the concept in previous posts. I just think the open-ended print run is a big red flag.[/quote:2kfk9d8b]

The guys admits that the worst case is going to yield you only 40% of your investment ($500 on a case that should cost $1300+...BAD NEWS) and you aren't willing to believe that? He hand collated it himself. I simply don't get why that wouldn't be believable. If there is anything that I can give Brian credit for, he's been pretty darn transparent with very few exceptions. He came out and told us what his production costs were...no idea why he did it, but wow, that revealed a ton. I just don't see what is so unbelievable here. He's giving you all the info you need when he says his costs are 80% of wholesale, and with retail being about 10% higher, you're looking at an average loss of 30% across the board on this product. Why are you hung up on your odds to pull the Strasburg? What you do need to know is that if you invest $225 the average pull from that pack should be $157.50. But when you say that there are a handful of super high end cards (Stras Super, Heyward Super, Durant, Jordan, etc.) then the average pull from the rest of the packs drops dramatically. The whole design of this product is to water down the high dollar cards to give people a chance to get one of them for a low buy in price.

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

I agree with most of what you say, but I still think it's a HUGE leap of faith for someone to just take BG at his word that he's not going to water down the product by producing more. A similar leap of faith is required to trust that the "minimum return" will be $500.

I'm not that familiar with the personal relationships on FCB, so perhaps you know something that I don't, but as just an average collector, I'm concerned about the lack of transparency. As you say, Brian Gray has given us most of the relevant information. However, I'm not sure what the purpose of hiding the print run is. I don't believe Brian has ever addressed the reasoning, but I'd welcome an honest explanation.

Don't take this as a blanket condemnation of Razor/Leaf or the product. I love the idea of this product and have defended the concept in previous posts. I just think the open-ended print run is a big red flag.

Dont bother yourself you wont get a straight answer. They will tell you how different they are from topps then in the same breath tell you they wont be releasing the print run numbers cause topps dont do it. They dont seem to get the reason the big boys do this is because they can while it may not be strong they have the collectors trust for the most part. But you on the other hand are supposed to believe someone who has said many things in the past which have changed weeks sometimes months later. Just do yourself a favor and stand back and watch the collectors get toasted again, there is a reason most local shops dont carry this "stuff".

Seriously? It's not like anyone going in to this product has the blinders on...this is a gamble. BG has made it clear that most will lose, some big, and a few will make out huge. The numbers that he has shared aren't hard to understand. The whining and moaning here makes no sense to me. This product doesn't require any more info than what we've already been told. With that info you know you're playing the lottery except in this case, if you don't win the lottery, your ticket is still worth a little bit of money.

 

[maxpower]

[quote="Leaf":22ide3k2][quote="GAbballplayer148":22ide3k2]I thought I read somewhere that only 299 cases were being produced, with 6 boxes per case, meaning 1794 boxes/packs/cards.

This was speculated by a poster on a thread when we announced this.
I immedately came on and said that we were not announcing a print run.
I can say there are more than 299. However, we sold out quite easily so I would expect the qty produced was just right.
BG

LOL.
How PC of you.

So another words, no clue if there are 50 Ripkens, or 4 Ripkens.
Still recycled blah.
At the pricing, unless you like wasting your hard earned money on coke, hookers, and cards, you are better off just buying the card you want on line.
Just my 2 pesos.

Good Luck to those "fortunate" gamblers. Enjoy the coke.

As someone who bought two cases direct, I am pretty disappointed with that answer as well. Very weak.

Guys,
This is no "defense of razor" post by a moderator, just making that clear from the start.

Razor Rookie Retro has always been a repackaged product where the only one guaranteed to make bank is Brian Gray. But how is that different than any other product? The only one guaranteed to make money is the manufacturer. You take the good with the bad. BG hasn't stated the total run, perhaps that opens him to make more, but I'm guessing that he's done. Who cares what the odds are on that single Strasburg Super or the Heyward super, or the Michael Jordan Rookies, or the Durant Rookie Autos, and so on and so on. He's already given you 90% of the info. He's already said the worst case is $500 to $600 return...which is about a 60% loss. If you opened every case you'd lose 30% of your money. He already stated that his cost was 80% of wholesale, wholesale was probably around 200, maybe a little higher. So if you're paying $220 to $225 a pack, then it's about a 30% loss across the whole run. This is already known. This product is a gamble in a slightly different way than a new release product in that the value of each card is really already determined, prices fluctuate, and with strasburg going down, these cases will yield even less value than what BG put into it. Sure, Posey's have gone up, some others have as well, but the Strasburg probably wouldn't sell for $10K at this point, and that is half it's previous value. (waiting for BG to come in and say he'd buy it back for that price). All this to say, there is no reason to whine and moan about this product, it is what it is. If you want a ticket for a chance at a card you couldn't afford, then you gotta pony up 2 bills, otherwise, sit back and watch most people get hosed and a few people get really lucky.

I agree with most of what you say, but I still think it's a HUGE leap of faith for someone to just take BG at his word that he's not going to water down the product by producing more. A similar leap of faith is required to trust that the "minimum return" will be $500.

I'm not that familiar with the personal relationships on FCB, so perhaps you know something that I don't, but as just an average collector, I'm concerned about the lack of transparency. As you say, Brian Gray has given us most of the relevant information. However, I'm not sure what the purpose of hiding the print run is. I don't believe Brian has ever addressed the reasoning, but I'd welcome an honest explanation.

Don't take this as a blanket condemnation of Razor/Leaf or the product. I love the idea of this product and have defended the concept in previous posts. I just think the open-ended print run is a big red flag.[/quote:22ide3k2]

The guys admits that the worst case is going to yield you only 40% of your investment ($500 on a case that should cost $1300+...BAD NEWS) and you aren't willing to believe that? He hand collated it himself. I simply don't get why that wouldn't be believable. If there is anything that I can give Brian credit for, he's been pretty darn transparent with very few exceptions. He came out and told us what his production costs were...no idea why he did it, but wow, that revealed a ton. I just don't see what is so unbelievable here. He's giving you all the info you need when he says his costs are 80% of wholesale, and with retail being about 10% higher, you're looking at an average loss of 30% across the board on this product. Why are you hung up on your odds to pull the Strasburg? What you do need to know is that if you invest $225 the average pull from that pack should be $157.50. But when you say that there are a handful of super high end cards (Stras Super, Heyward Super, Durant, Jordan, etc.) then the average pull from the rest of the packs drops dramatically. The whole design of this product is to water down the high dollar cards to give people a chance to get one of them for a low buy in price.[/quote:22ide3k2]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

First with the "minimum guarantee", I have no reason to disbelieve him, but no reason based on the information provided to believe him. If his history in the hobby is established and accepted as a 'man of his word' and completely above board, that's great. I'm merely saying that for someone who isn't familiar with who he is, I have no way of supporting any faith in him. Frankly, I have more faith in the minimum based on your belief in Brian Gray than I do in anything he's said, since I've read your posts first at BMB and now here. My point was that transparency would go a long way towards removing any need to 'have faith', so with all the benefits transparency provides, it's a bit troubling that the print run is shrouded in mystery.

As for your hypothetical return on the packs ($157.50 on a $225.00 pack), I'm not doubting it or criticizing it. In fact, I think that would be a fairly nice product. However, I don't understand how you can assert that print run is irrelevant simply because we know that average return. Let's assume that right now there are 2000 packs, with an average return of $157.50, and a 5 out of 2000 chance at a major hit (Stras, Heyward, Lebron, Sid, and Tiger, for example). If Brian Gray released a second run and included 10,000 cards worth exactly $157.50, the average return would stay the same, but the product would be far less attractive (a 5 out of 12,000 chance at hitting one of the major hits).

As you correctly point out, the expected loss is still the same, but I imagine that for many/most buyers, a marked decrease in the odds of hitting a 'major hit' would change their view of exactly how attractive this product is. And again, transparency with the print run would clear this issue right up.

I'm not a hobby expert, but this all seems like common sense to me. Am I missing something?

I realize that this product is a gamble and that no one should be going into it with blinders on or blowing the rent money on a case, but it seems to me that the print run determines just how good a gamble this is.

 

[Wes]

Would it be nice to know a print run? Sure. Is it a deal breaker? Absolutely not. We don't have print runs for Bowman and that's one of the most successful lines out there.

 

[kentuckyderby]

1) Good Luck to those breaking. Hope one of the "common men" finds the top cards
2) BG never lies :benson:
3) Shame about Stras injury because his card would have kept this product very interesting
4) Please no 'sweet pulls' when it is an under $100 pull
5) Bea Arthur was hot

 

[All In Cards]

Even without a print run I think its still limited. You could only buy 2 cases direct from Razor.

Also I think there are a million great rookie cards out there that could go into a product like this. Let's say the new owners of Razor do Rookie Retro Series 2. They could already have all the cards bought and ready to go. This product could go on for years.