how many cases of razor rookie retro were produced?

[Leaf]

[quote="GAbballplayer148":2ogkbgdk]I thought I read somewhere that only 299 cases were being produced, with 6 boxes per case, meaning 1794 boxes/packs/cards.

This was speculated by a poster on a thread when we announced this.
I immedately came on and said that we were not announcing a print run.
I can say there are more than 299. However, we sold out quite easily so I would expect the qty produced was just right.
BG

LOL.
How PC of you.

So another words, no clue if there are 50 Ripkens, or 4 Ripkens.
Still recycled blah.
At the pricing, unless you like wasting your hard earned money on coke, hookers, and cards, you are better off just buying the card you want on line.
Just my 2 pesos.

Good Luck to those "fortunate" gamblers. Enjoy the coke.

As someone who bought two cases direct, I am pretty disappointed with that answer as well. Very weak.

Guys,
This is no "defense of razor" post by a moderator, just making that clear from the start.

Razor Rookie Retro has always been a repackaged product where the only one guaranteed to make bank is Brian Gray. But how is that different than any other product? The only one guaranteed to make money is the manufacturer. You take the good with the bad. BG hasn't stated the total run, perhaps that opens him to make more, but I'm guessing that he's done. Who cares what the odds are on that single Strasburg Super or the Heyward super, or the Michael Jordan Rookies, or the Durant Rookie Autos, and so on and so on. He's already given you 90% of the info. He's already said the worst case is $500 to $600 return...which is about a 60% loss. If you opened every case you'd lose 30% of your money. He already stated that his cost was 80% of wholesale, wholesale was probably around 200, maybe a little higher. So if you're paying $220 to $225 a pack, then it's about a 30% loss across the whole run. This is already known. This product is a gamble in a slightly different way than a new release product in that the value of each card is really already determined, prices fluctuate, and with strasburg going down, these cases will yield even less value than what BG put into it. Sure, Posey's have gone up, some others have as well, but the Strasburg probably wouldn't sell for $10K at this point, and that is half it's previous value. (waiting for BG to come in and say he'd buy it back for that price). All this to say, there is no reason to whine and moan about this product, it is what it is. If you want a ticket for a chance at a card you couldn't afford, then you gotta pony up 2 bills, otherwise, sit back and watch most people get hosed and a few people get really lucky.

I agree with most of what you say, but I still think it's a HUGE leap of faith for someone to just take BG at his word that he's not going to water down the product by producing more. A similar leap of faith is required to trust that the "minimum return" will be $500.

I'm not that familiar with the personal relationships on FCB, so perhaps you know something that I don't, but as just an average collector, I'm concerned about the lack of transparency. As you say, Brian Gray has given us most of the relevant information. However, I'm not sure what the purpose of hiding the print run is. I don't believe Brian has ever addressed the reasoning, but I'd welcome an honest explanation.

Don't take this as a blanket condemnation of Razor/Leaf or the product. I love the idea of this product and have defended the concept in previous posts. I just think the open-ended print run is a big red flag.[/quote:2ogkbgdk]

Thanks for the post. I am not sure how to say this, so I will try the most direct aproach:
We are done producing this item. We are not making anymore and we are not buying any additional cards for this project.
It is not an open ended print run.

The reasoning you request is simple. Typically, we number the cases of all products produced 299 and less. These are ridiculously limited by today's standards and deserve numbering. On the other hand, many companies produce 500 case runs these days on select products. Thus, if I were making 400-500 cases, why would I number.

Again, I hope you guys understand that most companies NEVER tell you print runs. I personally dont find this reason for alarm. They are businesses and how much 2010 Bowman Chrome Baseball Topps is making is not our (yes, I collect/invest/break this) business. They will probably make 5000+ cases. If they #'ered cases, market would freak out.

If we ever announce print run, we will number cases.
In this case, production is over 299, thus no numbering.
Its not like we made 800 cases, lol.....

Hope this helps, but we have given as much transparency as I think should be reasonably expected.
BG

 

[cgilmo]

I agree with most of what you say, but I still think it's a HUGE leap of faith for someone to just take BG at his word that he's not going to water down the product by producing more. A similar leap of faith is required to trust that the "minimum return" will be $500.

I'm not that familiar with the personal relationships on FCB, so perhaps you know something that I don't, but as just an average collector, I'm concerned about the lack of transparency. As you say, Brian Gray has given us most of the relevant information. However, I'm not sure what the purpose of hiding the print run is. I don't believe Brian has ever addressed the reasoning, but I'd welcome an honest explanation.

Don't take this as a blanket condemnation of Razor/Leaf or the product. I love the idea of this product and have defended the concept in previous posts. I just think the open-ended print run is a big red flag.

Dont bother yourself you wont get a straight answer. They will tell you how different they are from topps then in the same breath tell you they wont be releasing the print run numbers cause topps dont do it. They dont seem to get the reason the big boys do this is because they can while it may not be strong they have the collectors trust for the most part. But you on the other hand are supposed to believe someone who has said many things in the past which have changed weeks sometimes months later. Just do yourself a favor and stand back and watch the collectors get toasted again, there is a reason most local shops dont carry this "stuff".

That's funny, because ya know I work for a distributor. Almost everyone has placed orders for it.

 

[George_Calfas]

It is only fair for collector/purchaser to request the print run. This is not a type of product with serial numbered cards with stated odds, this is a re-pack. Collector do not need to know the number of Topps Tribute cases produced since there is a checklist and the desirable cards are serial numbered. Many people seem to be concerned about the potential padding of this product reducing the ROI. Yes, we know this product sold out fast, that is not the debate....the people who will actually bust these packs what to know if they have a 1:1500 shot at the big hit or 1:2000.

If the product is sold out and everyone involved feels confident that this is a solid deal for all parties releasing the print run should be no big deal. Being evasive on this matter is not helping trust as Brian's new company moves forward. I normally support BG but I will not touch this product no matter how great it would be to hit a Big One.

 

[Leaf]

It is only fair for collector/purchaser to request the print run. This is not a type of product with serial numbered cards with stated odds, this is a re-pack. Collector do not need to know the number of Topps Tribute cases produced since there is a checklist and the desirable cards are serial numbered. Many people seem to be concerned about the potential padding of this product reducing the ROI. Yes, we know this product sold out fast, that is not the debate....the people who will actually bust these packs what to know if they have a 1:1500 shot at the big hit or 1:2000.

If the product is sold out and everyone involved feels confident that this is a solid deal for all parties releasing the print run should be no big deal. Being evasive on this matter is not helping trust as Brian's new company moves forward. I normally support BG but I will not touch this product no matter how great it would be to hit a Big One.

George,
Appreciate the reply. We are not being evasive, I can promise that.

The reason we do not number cases over 299 is a product we made called Encore Cut signature. The inital series that year was 299 cases and flew off the shelves. The second release was numbered to 499. The content was absolutely better and more widely distirbuted. Many dealers/collectors immediately grew concerned that 499 vs. 299 was way too many. For some time, the product hovered around factory cost in a very suspect manner. Fortunately, people eventually realized 499 wasn't very much as well and the product firmed up dramatically.

This was a prime example of how perceptions were incorrect. After that, we made an internal decision NOT to number cases on ANY product over 299. You may assume if there is no numbering on the case that we made in excess of 299.

We made just enough cases to almost meet demand. We did this because collectors were very upset with high end products like Historical Heroes or Oval office that were bid up so high you couldnt break and have a fighting chance.
We produced these in a quantitiy to insure everyone would have a fair entry point for some period of time.

I have to stand by the fact that we continue to provide more transparency than almost any other manufacturer (Rittenhouse does a great job also)....

If anyone wishes to discuss, feel free to call me anytime... 214-393-4510... brian

 

[ThoseBackPages]

let me start by saying that its nice and refreshing to see a Razor thread that hasnt turned ugly.

i am not a high roller guy and dont have the wallet for packs that go for more then $10 anyway lol

that being said, lets say i rip one of these packs that cost $69



what are the odds of me getting a 'top hit" vs the odds of me getting a plain white (worthless) jersey and/or auto?

 

[nyc3]

That's funny, because ya know I work for a distributor. Almost everyone has placed orders for it.

Want to know something even funnier? I just walked out of possibly 2 of the biggest shops here in NYC and I will save you what there comments where about this product AFTER I even explained to them what it was (they had ZERO INFORMATION on it and couldn't care less to say it kindly). I guess almost everyone besides possibly the 2 biggest shops in a major market placed orders. So I am not sure what your point is, are you saying its so limited that almost everyone got one?

 

[PaulKonerkbro]

:grouphug:

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

The fact remains that no matter how many cases were produced, it sold out quickly and the supply didn't meet the demand so people are interested in purchasing the product. Certain stores may or may not, but few stores in America all order the same things anyway. It's plausible that certain distributors didn't order it, but it doesn't negate the interest implied by a quick sell-out.

Could more cases have been produced? It certainly seems like it.

 

[dadofandrew]

Off topic here, but how are these packed out? With the different weights between a PSA slab and a BGS slab wouldn't it be pretty easy to tell which one you are getting in your "pack"

 

[cgilmo]

That's funny, because ya know I work for a distributor. Almost everyone has placed orders for it.

Want to know something even funnier? I just walked out of possibly 2 of the biggest shops here in NYC and I will save you what there comments where about this product AFTER I even explained to them what it was (they had ZERO INFORMATION on it and couldn't care less to say it kindly). I guess almost everyone besides possibly the 2 biggest shops in a major market placed orders. So I am not sure what your point is, are you saying its so limited that almost everyone got one?

well, being in atlanta, we really don't cover NYC


and ya know what, the world doesn't end at your city limits. You might think it does, and I can understand that. Hell, if I looked south and saw Jersey I would think it's the end of the world too.

But I can tell you that this is just as widely an ordered product as a topps release at least around this office.

 

[NECpilgrims8]

That's funny, because ya know I work for a distributor. Almost everyone has placed orders for it.

Want to know something even funnier? I just walked out of possibly 2 of the biggest shops here in NYC and I will save you what there comments where about this product AFTER I even explained to them what it was (they had ZERO INFORMATION on it and couldn't care less to say it kindly). I guess almost everyone besides possibly the 2 biggest shops in a major market placed orders. So I am not sure what your point is, are you saying its so limited that almost everyone got one?

NYC is quite possibly one of the worst markets for wax/product. The couple of shops that are around are so far out of the actually hobby times.

Ever wonder why the National doesn't come here? Yea....

 

[lisu]

let me start by saying that its nice and refreshing to see a Razor thread that hasnt turned ugly.

i am not a high roller guy and dont have the wallet for packs that go for more then $10 anyway lol

that being said, lets say i rip one of these packs that cost $69



what are the odds of me getting a 'top hit" vs the odds of me getting a plain white (worthless) jersey and/or auto?

Funny - I opened some of those recently and got some awesome hits.

 

[nyc3]

The fact remains that no matter how many cases were produced, it sold out quickly and the supply didn't meet the demand so people are interested in purchasing the product. Certain stores may or may not, but few stores in America all order the same things anyway. It's plausible that certain distributors didn't order it, but it doesn't negate the interest implied by a quick sell-out.

Could more cases have been produced? It certainly seems like it.

Thats fair enough, but now I swear this may appear to be a douchie question but I have to ask and it s not my intentions. Dont nearly every product sell out? Why is it constantly toted around here by people as if thats the end all be all, I am pretty sure AG sold out the past 2 years and they have been the weakest product and is mass produced. What was the last product not to sell out? And wasn't that just because they made massive amounts of it?

 

[Leaf]

The fact remains that no matter how many cases were produced, it sold out quickly and the supply didn't meet the demand so people are interested in purchasing the product. Certain stores may or may not, but few stores in America all order the same things anyway. It's plausible that certain distributors didn't order it, but it doesn't negate the interest implied by a quick sell-out.

Could more cases have been produced? It certainly seems like it.

Thats fair enough, but now I swear this may appear to be a douchie question but I have to ask and it s not my intentions. Dont nearly every product sell out? Why is it constantly toted around here by people as if thats the end all be all, I am pretty sure AG sold out the past 2 years and they have been the weakest product and is mass produced. What was the last product not to sell out? And wasn't that just because they made massive amounts of it?

Actually, only about 25% of all products hobby wide sell out (estimate). This year it may be a touch better due to Stras, not selling out is why you guys get the great chance at those "bargains" on internet retailer websites and shows.
Trust me, MANY manufacturers are holding lots of unsold cases of product.

When I used to own the distribution company, I lived off these manufacturers' errors.
Heck, I worked for Lud Denny at Proset in 1990! I saw the biggest overproduction in history!
That's why I avoid overstock at all costs.
BG

 

[nyc3]

Actually, only about 25% of all products hobby wide sell out (estimate). This year it may be a touch better due to Stras, not selling out is why you guys get the great chance at those "bargains" on internet retailer websites and shows.
Trust me, MANY manufacturers are holding lots of unsold cases of product.

When I used to own the distribution company, I lived off these manufacturers' errors.
Heck, I worked for Lud Denny at Proset in 1990! I saw the biggest overproduction in history!
That's why I avoid overstock at all costs.
BG

Interesting information thank you for sharing.

As for proset I think they are still printing Emmit Smith rookies :lol:

 

[Leaf]

Actually, only about 25% of all products hobby wide sell out (estimate). This year it may be a touch better due to Stras, not selling out is why you guys get the great chance at those "bargains" on internet retailer websites and shows.
Trust me, MANY manufacturers are holding lots of unsold cases of product.

When I used to own the distribution company, I lived off these manufacturers' errors.
Heck, I worked for Lud Denny at Proset in 1990! I saw the biggest overproduction in history!
That's why I avoid overstock at all costs.
BG

Interesting information thank you for sharing.

As for proset I think they are still printing Emmit Smith rookies :lol:

I actually dont think so... I bet Luddy stopped by now...
The things I saw... almost ruined the hobby for me... BG

 

[JoshHamilton]

and ya know what, the world doesn't end at your city limits. You might think it does, and I can understand that. Hell, if I looked south and saw Jersey I would think it's the end of the world too.

AWESOME

 

[phillyfan0417]

and ya know what, the world doesn't end at your city limits. You might think it does, and I can understand that. Hell, if I looked south and saw Jersey I would think it's the end of the world too.

AWESOME

Hey now, I know i'm a midwesterner now but come on. NJ isnt that bad.

 

[JustinG08]

I thought I read somewhere that only 299 cases were being produced, with 6 boxes per case, meaning 1794 boxes/packs/cards.

This was speculated by a poster on a thread when we announced this.
I immedately came on and said that we were not announcing a print run.I can say there are more than 299. However, we sold out quite easily so I would expect the qty produced was just right.
BG

Actually someone was questioning how many of a certain card would be in the product, you responded to that question saying you wont release print runs (as in the quantity of each card). You never made any mention that the speculated case numbers were incorrect in that thread even though it was talked about numerous times. Would it have been that difficult to say in the thread "I can say there are more than 299" ? I can understand why people whould be upset that this wasnt mentioned until after the product has shipped.

 

[Messier2]

That's funny, because ya know I work for a distributor. Almost everyone has placed orders for it.

Want to know something even funnier? I just walked out of possibly 2 of the biggest shops here in NYC and I will save you what there comments where about this product AFTER I even explained to them what it was (they had ZERO INFORMATION on it and couldn't care less to say it kindly). I guess almost everyone besides possibly the 2 biggest shops in a major market placed orders. So I am not sure what your point is, are you saying its so limited that almost everyone got one?

Which shops would that be?

And, I agree. NYC is the worst for boxes etc. They have very few card stores (in Manhattan) and the ones that are still alive charge a ridiculus markup on the boxes. One is close to Wall St. and has no problems getting buyers paying waaaaaaaay more than blowout on boxes because they have the money to burn.