More mama_bear** discussion...

[Me-n-My-Kid]

Childish how?

You come in here defending him and claim you know him and have dealt with him, and right at the moment when everyone is swooping in on mamabear to collect refunds. Doesn't seem like a coincidence to me. You're here to create a diversion to get some heat off mamabear, much like "baseballcardseller" did earlier in the thread (perhaps albeit unintentionally), but in a different manner.

Nice try.

+1

I also find it odd they made a point to mention a radio show. Also I love the "I know the full story but wont say anything" Thats not suspicious at all.

Ok, let's see:
1. I received an invoice for a product.
2. I paid the invoice.
3. I got my product.

Am I missing something?

If I did not receive my product, then I would get my money back and no harm done to me. He has refunded me in the past. I would never spend money that I don't have or can't afford to spend.

Let me address the radio show: How stupid of me would it be to tell the radio show so that everybody who is upset with the guy could call the station? I wouldn't do that. If you don't believe me, I don't care.

I don't feel like I am defending him more than having to defend myself here....
All I'm saying is I had a perfectly fine experience buying from him. I understand some people have not & for those people I feel bad. But they will get their money back and they should learn their lesson. If they can't afford to either A) get the product or B) get their money back ~ then they should not have made the purchase to begin with.

 

[bmc398]

Childish how?

You come in here defending him and claim you know him and have dealt with him, and right at the moment when everyone is swooping in on mamabear to collect refunds. Doesn't seem like a coincidence to me. You're here to create a diversion to get some heat off mamabear, much like "baseballcardseller" did earlier in the thread (perhaps albeit unintentionally), but in a different manner.

Nice try.

+1

I also find it odd they made a point to mention a radio show. Also I love the "I know the full story but wont say anything" Thats not suspicious at all.

Ok, let's see:
1. I received an invoice for a product.
2. I paid the invoice.
3. I got my product.

Am I missing something?

If I did not receive my product, then I would get my money back and no harm done to me. He has refunded me in the past. I would never spend money that I don't have or can't afford to spend.

Let me address the radio show: How stupid of me would it be to tell the radio show so that everybody who is upset with the guy could call the station? I wouldn't do that. If you don't believe me, I don't care.

I don't feel like I am defending him more than having to defend myself here....
All I'm saying is I had a perfectly fine experience buying from him. I understand some people have not & for those people I feel bad. But they will get their money back and they should learn their lesson. If they can't afford to either A) get the product or B) get their money back ~ then they should not have made the purchase to begin with.

You're missing the point....its not on the buyer....its on the seller.

Just like if the buyer cant afford to get the product or wait to get the refund, if the seller can't get the product you shouldn't put up BIN after BIN after BIN way below even market cost if you A. don't have it in inventory or B. have no guarantee that you can come through. All it was is the seller putting up BINS he had no clue he could deliver on.

The cease and desist letters probably had something to do with it too.

 

[Me-n-My-Kid]

You're missing the point....its not on the buyer....its on the seller.

Just like if the buyer cant afford to get the product or wait to get the refund, if the seller can't get the product you shouldn't put up BIN after BIN after BIN way below even market cost if you A. don't have it in inventory or B. have no guarantee that you can come through. All it was is the seller putting up BINS he had no clue he could deliver on.

The cease and desist letters probably had something to do with it too.

Yes, I agree with that. I do think; however, his intention was to deliver on all his listings. I believe something happened to him that prevented him from fulfilling orders. That is complete speculation on my part, but I'm sure there are many upset dealers who did not like being undersold. If you think about it though, mama_bear was buying from the same dealers who are upset. They got their full money once already and mama_bear resold it at his own expense....?

I can't justify the logic, I only know my experience was OK.

 

[nyc3]

Yes, I agree with that. I do think; however, his intention was to deliver on all his listings. I believe something happened to him that prevented him from fulfilling orders. That is complete speculation on my part, but I'm sure there are many upset dealers who did not like being undersold. If you think about it though, mama_bear was buying from the same dealers who are upset. They got their full money once already and mama_bear resold it at his own expense....?

I can't justify the logic, I only know my experience was OK.

Amazing you got all this information from this person after a few transactions? and found this topic randomly. What are the odds.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Dear llwesman,

I know you read the blogs, you can probably find everything you need there considering anything I e-mail privately ends up there. I hope you are not a party to the group that has filed cases against me for items already received that they are claiming had just "Cardboard" in it and not the items they were supposed to have. This is a serious matter and those people are going to have to answer themselves for the false attempt to keep the item and get a refund. All of these cases were sent from some highly reputable people and they are having to answer for why they shipped the "Cardboard" We all know the goods were in the packages, but I will not be able to survive this attack.
At least for them they have succeeded in shutting me down, so they should pat themselves on the back. I suggest you put in a case to recoup your funds.

- mama_bear**

Slim just left town.

It is shatty that people are putting in claims on him that all they got was "cardboard' in their boxes. I tend to believe him since he never personally shipped out the cases. I think the only reasonable explanation is that somebody on dealernet knew that this AZ-250 buyer was desperate and the cases he bought actually didn't have the goods in them. This sint really that likely of a story though, and is most likely just more greedy bastards trying to ride the wave of negatives and get something for free.

At this point, its clear he's not a scam artist...just some idiot who took a hundred thousand dollar bet and lost and thought he knew more than the big boys on the sports card market.

He was doing this as a publicity stunt to get a legitimate retail card business going no doubt. Problem is, the guy is clearly an idiot and would have crashed and burned at that too. He saw every BIN he put up as free money and didnt stop until his terrible bet caught up with him. I mean, what product has sold at 60% OF COST 2 weeks after release this year? Not even BC or TC got that low. Factor in fees and this guy was never going to make a dime.

Wonder how much money in the hole he'll come out on this. My bet is that he'll owe $50,000 or more in back fees and money to customers.

We said it weeks ago, nothing good can come of this and supporting it makes it worse for yourself, others and the chief idiot mama_bear.

Hey BMC... I have some swampland to sell you down here.

Seriously? You believe him? Has any major case dealer ever mentioned getting a chargeback because of opening a case and finding "cardboard"? (Btw, that's what we get in cases...cardboard...)

It's his neat and easy excuse as to what "put him out of business" whereas his attempt to short sell failed, and that's why he's out... not because of an alleged fraudulent chargeback.

This guy is ******.

 

[bmc398]

You're missing the point....its not on the buyer....its on the seller.

Just like if the buyer cant afford to get the product or wait to get the refund, if the seller can't get the product you shouldn't put up BIN after BIN after BIN way below even market cost if you A. don't have it in inventory or B. have no guarantee that you can come through. All it was is the seller putting up BINS he had no clue he could deliver on.

The cease and desist letters probably had something to do with it too.

Yes, I agree with that. I do think; however, his intention was to deliver on all his listings. I believe something happened to him that prevented him from fulfilling orders. That is complete speculation on my part, but I'm sure there are many upset dealers who did not like being undersold. If you think about it though, mama_bear was buying from the same dealers who are upset. They got their full money once already and mama_bear resold it at his own expense....?

I can't justify the logic, I only know my experience was OK.

The reason Mama_Bear wasn't fulfilling orders is 2 fold. A...he probably ran out of money. You can't take in $1100 per and buy many cases above retail. I think that might even be illegal. That was his business model and it failed.

B. You can't come out and ruffle feathers of real and reputable dealers and then expect them to sell you the cases you need to screw them over. Thats stupid to expect that. At the end, the reason he had to buy so high was because all the ditributors he was undercutting found out who he was and stopped selling to him at anything reasonable. They also probably didn't want to get drug down with him...as its not hard to see what hes selling them for and then what he's going to buy them for. A lot of dealers stopped selling to him because they were sketched out and didn't want to be implicated. Would you sell something to somebody who is then reselling when you know they are only taking in half of what the actual cost is?

None of it made ANY sense business wise and it was blatantly immoral what was happening. He was even still preselling after the product jumped!!! So that either means he was oblivious or just didn't care or maybe both.

 

[Crash Davis]

You're missing the point....its not on the buyer....its on the seller.

Just like if the buyer cant afford to get the product or wait to get the refund, if the seller can't get the product you shouldn't put up BIN after BIN after BIN way below even market cost if you A. don't have it in inventory or B. have no guarantee that you can come through. All it was is the seller putting up BINS he had no clue he could deliver on.

The cease and desist letters probably had something to do with it too.

Yes, I agree with that. I do think; however, his intention was to deliver on all his listings. I believe something happened to him that prevented him from fulfilling orders. That is complete speculation on my part, but I'm sure there are many upset dealers who did not like being undersold. If you think about it though, mama_bear was buying from the same dealers who are upset. They got their full money once already and mama_bear resold it at his own expense....?

I can't justify the logic, I only know my experience was OK.

Once again, greed rears its ugly head.

The old addage you probably heard a million times as a kid - if it's too good to be true, then it most probably is.

 

[bmc398]

Dear llwesman,

I know you read the blogs, you can probably find everything you need there considering anything I e-mail privately ends up there. I hope you are not a party to the group that has filed cases against me for items already received that they are claiming had just "Cardboard" in it and not the items they were supposed to have. This is a serious matter and those people are going to have to answer themselves for the false attempt to keep the item and get a refund. All of these cases were sent from some highly reputable people and they are having to answer for why they shipped the "Cardboard" We all know the goods were in the packages, but I will not be able to survive this attack.
At least for them they have succeeded in shutting me down, so they should pat themselves on the back. I suggest you put in a case to recoup your funds.

- mama_bear**

Slim just left town.

It is shatty that people are putting in claims on him that all they got was "cardboard' in their boxes. I tend to believe him since he never personally shipped out the cases. I think the only reasonable explanation is that somebody on dealernet knew that this AZ-250 buyer was desperate and the cases he bought actually didn't have the goods in them. This sint really that likely of a story though, and is most likely just more greedy bastards trying to ride the wave of negatives and get something for free.

At this point, its clear he's not a scam artist...just some idiot who took a hundred thousand dollar bet and lost and thought he knew more than the big boys on the sports card market.

He was doing this as a publicity stunt to get a legitimate retail card business going no doubt. Problem is, the guy is clearly an idiot and would have crashed and burned at that too. He saw every BIN he put up as free money and didnt stop until his terrible bet caught up with him. I mean, what product has sold at 60% OF COST 2 weeks after release this year? Not even BC or TC got that low. Factor in fees and this guy was never going to make a dime.

Wonder how much money in the hole he'll come out on this. My bet is that he'll owe $50,000 or more in back fees and money to customers.

We said it weeks ago, nothing good can come of this and supporting it makes it worse for yourself, others and the chief idiot mama_bear.

Hey BMC... I have some swampland to sell you down here.

Seriously? You believe him? Has any major case dealer ever mentioned getting a chargeback because of opening a case and finding "cardboard"? (Btw, that's what we get in cases...cardboard...)

It's his neat and easy excuse as to what "put him out of business" whereas his attempt to short sell failed, and that's why he's out... not because of an alleged fraudulent chargeback.

This guy is ******.

LOL Jeff,

I mean I don't buy the story for a second. But, I have seen some sleazy eBayers in my time and wouldn't put it past somebody.

The whole thing was just wonky from the start, thats why I stayed away. Ive bought about the equivalent of 2 cases of Sterling (at mama_bears blowout price) over the period of this thread so its not like im jealous about not having money to blow on cards and am trying to bring those that do down as was suggested a few pages back. My only goal was to get people to open their eyes up to what was really happening and that by buying from him you were A. not going to get squat and B. helping to keep his little operation going.

 

[bmc398]

[quote="Me-n-My-Kid":ybcifr8f]

You're missing the point....its not on the buyer....its on the seller.

Just like if the buyer cant afford to get the product or wait to get the refund, if the seller can't get the product you shouldn't put up BIN after BIN after BIN way below even market cost if you A. don't have it in inventory or B. have no guarantee that you can come through. All it was is the seller putting up BINS he had no clue he could deliver on.

The cease and desist letters probably had something to do with it too.

Yes, I agree with that. I do think; however, his intention was to deliver on all his listings. I believe something happened to him that prevented him from fulfilling orders. That is complete speculation on my part, but I'm sure there are many upset dealers who did not like being undersold. If you think about it though, mama_bear was buying from the same dealers who are upset. They got their full money once already and mama_bear resold it at his own expense....?

I can't justify the logic, I only know my experience was OK.

Once again, greed rears its ugly head.

The old addage you probably heard a million times as a kid - if it's too good to be true, then it most probably is.[/quote:ybcifr8f]
And thats what it boils down to. If you bought from this guy, even after the alarm bells went off in your head and even after all the questions raised on here....you were greedy.

 

[Me-n-My-Kid]

Amazing you got all this information from this person after a few transactions? and found this topic randomly. What are the odds.

What are you trying to say? I had no reason to search for these forums until he mentioned them to me on the phone recently....

He really did have a customer who complained via EBay that their case was full of fake cardboard product. He forwarded the EBay email to me. I suspect mama_bear would try to fight that dispute because the guy got the product & now he wants his money back on top of it....


Sorry if I sound like I'm defending the guy. Like I said, I have no issues with my purchases and just explaining my experience. I'm sorry other people do have issues...

 

[Zithy]

Did he ever tell you why he chose to sell so low when he easily could have made a ton more by selling higher? Then he would have flown under the radar much easier and you could argue he would have moved through more cases. Even if he had to scramble to find replacements, that would have been much easier as well.

 

[bmc398]

Did he ever tell you why he chose to sell so low when he easily could have made a ton more by selling higher? Then he would have flown under the radar much easier and you could argue he would have moved through more cases. Even if he had to scramble to find replacements, that would have been much easier as well.

Exactly. The guy could have gotten way more for his pre-sells and still undercut the competition and still have made waves and gotten the marketing exposure he wanted.

Now, hes likely thousands in debt.

 

[nyc3]

What are you trying to say? I had no reason to search for these forums until he mentioned them to me on the phone recently....

He really did have a customer who complained via EBay that their case was full of fake cardboard product. He forwarded the EBay email to me. I suspect mama_bear would try to fight that dispute because the guy got the product & now he wants his money back on top of it....


Sorry if I sound like I'm defending the guy. Like I said, I have no issues with my purchases and just explaining my experience. I'm sorry other people do have issues...

So you are just a random guy who has spoke to him on the phone and is defending him, got ya. :lol:

Let me ask you this so it didnt seem strange your national radio buddy never signed up? Yet asked you to? ::facepalm::

 

[craftysouthpaw]

You're missing the point....its not on the buyer....its on the seller.

Just like if the buyer cant afford to get the product or wait to get the refund, if the seller can't get the product you shouldn't put up BIN after BIN after BIN way below even market cost if you A. don't have it in inventory or B. have no guarantee that you can come through. All it was is the seller putting up BINS he had no clue he could deliver on.

The cease and desist letters probably had something to do with it too.

Yes, I agree with that. I do think; however, his intention was to deliver on all his listings. I believe something happened to him that prevented him from fulfilling orders. That is complete speculation on my part, but I'm sure there are many upset dealers who did not like being undersold. If you think about it though, mama_bear was buying from the same dealers who are upset. They got their full money once already and mama_bear resold it at his own expense....?

I can't justify the logic, I only know my experience was OK.

Of course you can't justify the logic. Because there isn't any - at least not rational logic.

And of course he "intended" to deliver - IF the product tanked like many have this year. But if the product stayed at anything close to factory cost (or even worse, increased the way it has), he could have never "intended" to deliver anything. Unless he is truly stupid.

I am willing to believe you didn't come on here to defend the guy but please think about some of the stuff you're saying.

 

[Me-n-My-Kid]

The reason Mama_Bear wasn't fulfilling orders is 2 fold. A...he probably ran out of money. You can't take in $1100 per and buy many cases above retail. I think that might even be illegal. That was his business model and it failed.

B. You can't come out and ruffle feathers of real and reputable dealers and then expect them to sell you the cases you need to screw them over. Thats stupid to expect that. At the end, the reason he had to buy so high was because all the ditributors he was undercutting found out who he was and stopped selling to him at anything reasonable. They also probably didn't want to get drug down with him...as its not hard to see what hes selling them for and then what he's going to buy them for. A lot of dealers stopped selling to him because they were sketched out and didn't want to be implicated. Would you sell something to somebody who is then reselling when you know they are only taking in half of what the actual cost is?

None of it made ANY sense business wise and it was blatantly immoral what was happening. He was even still preselling after the product jumped!!! So that either means he was oblivious or just didn't care or maybe both.

I am not a Dealer or a Distributor or even in the business. I am a collector. I don't really care what his business model was. I don't care if he lost money. The same Dealers that "probably" conspired to shut him down were getting his green money just like they would have gotten my green money. From my perspective as a consumer, I do not feel bad for the Dealers because they did get their money for their product. If mama_bear wanted to resell the product to consumers at his own loss, then that is completely up to him. It should not be up to a monopoly of Dealers to decide what an individual does on the free market. If it is, we might as all well move to a communist nation and let a few rulers determine the market for us.

 

[nyc3]

I am not a Dealer or a Distributor or even in the business. I am a collector. I don't really care what his business model was. I don't care if he lost money. The same Dealers that "probably" conspired to shut him down were getting his green money just like they would have gotten my green money. From my perspective as a consumer, I do not feel bad for the Dealers because they did get their money for their product. If mama_bear wanted to resell the product to consumers at his own loss, then that is completely up to him. It should not be up to a monopoly of Dealers to decide what an individual does on the free market. If it is, we might as all well move to a communist nation and let a few rulers determine the market for us.

Amazing you have this stance after just after a few transactions. You may as well stop now, no one is buying your story.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

I am not a Dealer or a Distributor or even in the business. I am a collector. I don't really care what his business model was. I don't care if he lost money. The same Dealers that "probably" conspired to shut him down were getting his green money just like they would have gotten my green money. From my perspective as a consumer, I do not feel bad for the Dealers because they did get their money for their product. If mama_bear wanted to resell the product to consumers at his own loss, then that is completely up to him. It should not be up to a monopoly of Dealers to decide what an individual does on the free market. If it is, we might as all well move to a communist nation and let a few rulers determine the market for us.

Sure. If he were selling individual cards one at a time instead of cases, people may have a different POV in all this.

 

[Me-n-My-Kid]

So you are just a random guy who has spoke to him on the phone and is defending him, got ya. :lol:

Let me ask you this so it didnt seem strange your national radio buddy never signed up? Yet asked you to? ::facepalm::

If you are trying to insinuate that I am mama_bear, you're crazy!!!!
Yes, I have talked to him on the phone. I did what any reasonable person would do when they see such unbelievable pricing. I called the guy to make sure he would answer before buying his product. Most times I would just completely ignore the notion of buying, but this time I said what the hell. If I don't get the product, I get my money back. I talked to him frequently to make sure he wouldn't disappear. Over time, I learned a few things about him personally. I'm sorry if that is so hard for you to rationalize.

Geez. I make 1 comment about how my experience was OK with this guy on this forum & all I get is sarcasm.

 

[Me-n-My-Kid]

Amazing you have this stance after just after a few transactions. You may as well stop now, no one is buying your story.

Hard to do over a forum, but I would take a polygraph. I've said nothing but the truth. I've been burned before on case purchases on EBay and waited for my refunds. This time I was careful to make sure I checked out the seller & followed his feedback. Once I saw people were getting their product, I started buying. I did not buy until I established a line of communication and gave myself a better comfort level. If he never answered my calls or returned my emails, I would probably would have never bought from him.....

 

[bmc398]

So you are just a random guy who has spoke to him on the phone and is defending him, got ya. :lol:

Let me ask you this so it didnt seem strange your national radio buddy never signed up? Yet asked you to? ::facepalm::

If you are trying to insinuate that I am mama_bear, you're crazy!!!!
Yes, I have talked to him on the phone. I did what any reasonable person would do when they see such unbelievable pricing. I called the guy to make sure he would answer before buying his product. Most times I would just completely ignore the notion of buying, but this time I said what the hell. If I don't get the product, I get my money back. I talked to him frequently to make sure he wouldn't disappear. Over time, I learned a few things about him personally. I'm sorry if that is so hard for you to rationalize.

Geez. I make 1 comment about how my experience was OK with this guy on this forum & all I get is sarcasm.

BEcause your posts arent informational at all past your first one. You are trying to defend this guy with irrational thought, which is funny because irrational thought is what got Mama_Bear into this mess in the first place.