More mama_bear** discussion...

[Guest]

What I don't understand is why it's sooo low. I mean, if everyone is selling a case in the $675-725 range, why would you throw yours out at $450-500 when they would definitely sell for $600? You could make a point that they'd sell quicker at $600 than $500 due to many people being leery of getting ripped off.

Why such a big gap when it's unnecessary and tons of money is left on the table?

Read my post and think about it, Its a common practice in retail. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms though, If it was a scam and I bet other sellers already spoke to ebay about it. The seller also would of been thrown off ebay if they felt the explanation was sketchy.

It is not a scam to sell something cheap. It is a scam to build a trustworthy reputation then never deliver on presales. I'm not saying that is occuring right now, but I'd rather not make it my problem. I'll let you others row that boat.

I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

Just celebrated two years working for "the Wal-Mart of book stores." I'm inclined to back Marro up here. The things we do with inventory would make your heads explode. Sometimes you make money losing it.

 

[AKA Coastal]

What I don't understand is why it's sooo low. I mean, if everyone is selling a case in the $675-725 range, why would you throw yours out at $450-500 when they would definitely sell for $600? You could make a point that they'd sell quicker at $600 than $500 due to many people being leery of getting ripped off.

Why such a big gap when it's unnecessary and tons of money is left on the table?

Read my post and think about it, Its a common practice in retail. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms though, If it was a scam and I bet other sellers already spoke to ebay about it. The seller also would of been thrown off ebay if they felt the explanation was sketchy.

It is not a scam to sell something cheap. It is a scam to build a trustworthy reputation then never deliver on presales. I'm not saying that is occuring right now, but I'd rather not make it my problem. I'll let you others row that boat.

I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

How many times have you ever seen this in our hobby? It's not a practice I've ever seen. Nobody leaves money on the table they are doing. Please don't convince people otherwise.

 

[Mr.Whipple]

What I don't understand is why it's sooo low. I mean, if everyone is selling a case in the $675-725 range, why would you throw yours out at $450-500 when they would definitely sell for $600? You could make a point that they'd sell quicker at $600 than $500 due to many people being leery of getting ripped off.

Why such a big gap when it's unnecessary and tons of money is left on the table?

Read my post and think about it, Its a common practice in retail. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms though, If it was a scam and I bet other sellers already spoke to ebay about it. The seller also would of been thrown off ebay if they felt the explanation was sketchy.

It is not a scam to sell something cheap. It is a scam to build a trustworthy reputation then never deliver on presales. I'm not saying that is occuring right now, but I'd rather not make it my problem. I'll let you others row that boat.

I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

How many times have you ever seen this in our hobby? It's not a practice I've ever seen. Nobody leaves money on the table they are doing. Please don't convince people otherwise.

An LCS had a blowout table, Where boxes were sold at cost to him. He bought them below cost from two distributors, they couldnt sell them or were returned from shop. Blowout, DA and other online retailers do this everyday, They buy stuff sold below cost and resell it. You think they pay retail and sell it for no profit? Dealers, Hobbyist and Distributors sell to them to make cash and also to be able too keep the ability to order more every year. Money is left on the table by a lot of retailers on a daily basis.

 

[SeattleSports]

.

 

[Mr.Whipple]

[quote="Marro":ttbrdsni][quote="Zithy":ttbrdsni]What I don't understand is why it's sooo low. I mean, if everyone is selling a case in the $675-725 range, why would you throw yours out at $450-500 when they would definitely sell for $600? You could make a point that they'd sell quicker at $600 than $500 due to many people being leery of getting ripped off.

Why such a big gap when it's unnecessary and tons of money is left on the table?

Read my post and think about it, Its a common practice in retail. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms though, If it was a scam and I bet other sellers already spoke to ebay about it. The seller also would of been thrown off ebay if they felt the explanation was sketchy.

It is not a scam to sell something cheap. It is a scam to build a trustworthy reputation then never deliver on presales. I'm not saying that is occuring right now, but I'd rather not make it my problem. I'll let you others row that boat.

I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

How many times have you ever seen this in our hobby? It's not a practice I've ever seen. Nobody leaves money on the table they are doing. Please don't convince people otherwise.

An LCS had a blowout table, Where boxes were sold at cost to him. He bought them below cost from two distributors, they couldnt sell them or were returned from shop. Blowout, DA and other online retailers do this everyday, They buy stuff sold below cost and resell it. You think they pay retail and sell it for no profit? Dealers, Hobbyist and Distributors sell to them to make cash and also to be able too keep the ability to order more every year. Money is left on the table by a lot of retailers on a daily basis.[/quote:ttbrdsni]

I don't think you're following what is going on.

mama_bear is DROPSHIPPING every order. They are selling cases of WELL below cost, and then buying them at dealernet price (MUCH HIGHER) and having the dealer send directly to mama_bears customer.

You are not talking about a situation that resembles what is going on here and its not even close. This isn't selling off orders that were canceled or not paid for, they don't have a single item in inventory and they are dropshipping EVERYTHING.[/quote:ttbrdsni]

So they put a flordia addy and everything is being shipped from another state? So they're covering their asses by using an out of state addy. Yet another common practice for companies though. They just dont want Topps, UD, Panini and other companies to know they're selling product to the public.

 

[Taikob]

I thought of a possible(hypothetical) explanation if it isn't outright fraud: Is it possible this is a case of money laundering? I know that cash is king at the big shows and a lot of it changes hand and plenty of folks have no plans to report these card transaction for any number of reasons. I can't see why anyone would take a guaranteed loss unless they have a seller willing to accept cash payment on cases where the money can be "washed" through the guise of legitimate business for tax purposes. Obviously this would involve more than 1 person but I can see a situation where a go between brokers a cash contract where the buyer(our seller in this hypothetical case) pays the broker cash for the cases in order to keep & report sales coming through Paypal as legitimate income. Of course I'm just talking out of my arse here with a potential explanation that involves defrauding the IRS rather than the customer. Cut and run Ponzi style scheme is plenty plausible as well of course.

 

[crowTrobot]

[quote="Marro":3atmdgct][quote="Zithy":3atmdgct]What I don't understand is why it's sooo low. I mean, if everyone is selling a case in the $675-725 range, why would you throw yours out at $450-500 when they would definitely sell for $600? You could make a point that they'd sell quicker at $600 than $500 due to many people being leery of getting ripped off.

Why such a big gap when it's unnecessary and tons of money is left on the table?

Read my post and think about it, Its a common practice in retail. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms though, If it was a scam and I bet other sellers already spoke to ebay about it. The seller also would of been thrown off ebay if they felt the explanation was sketchy.

It is not a scam to sell something cheap. It is a scam to build a trustworthy reputation then never deliver on presales. I'm not saying that is occuring right now, but I'd rather not make it my problem. I'll let you others row that boat.

I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

How many times have you ever seen this in our hobby? It's not a practice I've ever seen. Nobody leaves money on the table they are doing. Please don't convince people otherwise.

An LCS had a blowout table, Where boxes were sold at cost to him. He bought them below cost from two distributors, they couldnt sell them or were returned from shop. Blowout, DA and other online retailers do this everyday, They buy stuff sold below cost and resell it. You think they pay retail and sell it for no profit? Dealers, Hobbyist and Distributors sell to them to make cash and also to be able too keep the ability to order more every year. Money is left on the table by a lot of retailers on a daily basis.[/quote:3atmdgct]

I don't think you're following what is going on.

mama_bear is DROPSHIPPING every order. They are selling cases of WELL below cost, and then buying them at dealernet price (MUCH HIGHER) and having the dealer send directly to mama_bears customer.

You are not talking about a situation that resembles what is going on here and its not even close. This isn't selling off orders that were canceled or not paid for, they don't have a single item in inventory and they are dropshipping EVERYTHING.[/quote:3atmdgct]



Unless they are working WITH distributers to get rid of excess distributer inventory (such as cancelled preorders).

I'm aware that can't be true, but it is what mamma_bear claims. They don't claim to be dumping their own inventory.

 

[SeattleSports]

[quote="rico08":zt97vnpq][quote="Marro":zt97vnpq][quote="Zithy":zt97vnpq]What I don't understand is why it's sooo low. I mean, if everyone is selling a case in the $675-725 range, why would you throw yours out at $450-500 when they would definitely sell for $600? You could make a point that they'd sell quicker at $600 than $500 due to many people being leery of getting ripped off.

Why such a big gap when it's unnecessary and tons of money is left on the table?

Read my post and think about it, Its a common practice in retail. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms though, If it was a scam and I bet other sellers already spoke to ebay about it. The seller also would of been thrown off ebay if they felt the explanation was sketchy.

It is not a scam to sell something cheap. It is a scam to build a trustworthy reputation then never deliver on presales. I'm not saying that is occuring right now, but I'd rather not make it my problem. I'll let you others row that boat.

I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

How many times have you ever seen this in our hobby? It's not a practice I've ever seen. Nobody leaves money on the table they are doing. Please don't convince people otherwise.

An LCS had a blowout table, Where boxes were sold at cost to him. He bought them below cost from two distributors, they couldnt sell them or were returned from shop. Blowout, DA and other online retailers do this everyday, They buy stuff sold below cost and resell it. You think they pay retail and sell it for no profit? Dealers, Hobbyist and Distributors sell to them to make cash and also to be able too keep the ability to order more every year. Money is left on the table by a lot of retailers on a daily basis.[/quote:zt97vnpq]

I don't think you're following what is going on.

mama_bear is DROPSHIPPING every order. They are selling cases of WELL below cost, and then buying them at dealernet price (MUCH HIGHER) and having the dealer send directly to mama_bears customer.

You are not talking about a situation that resembles what is going on here and its not even close. This isn't selling off orders that were canceled or not paid for, they don't have a single item in inventory and they are dropshipping EVERYTHING.[/quote:zt97vnpq]

So they put a flordia addy and everything is being shipped from another state? So they're covering their asses by using an out of state addy. Yet another common practice for companies though. They just dont want Topps, UD, Panini and other companies to know they're selling product to the public.[/quote:zt97vnpq]

Is this sarcasm that I'm not grasping? They are ordering from dealers ALL over the country to dropship. I can't tell if you're being serious about all of this..

 

[UpTheAlley]

thank'd, cash flow, leverage, tax offsetting, general CFO practices.


I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.[/quote]

 

[SeattleSports]

thank'd, cash flow, leverage, tax offsetting, general CFO practices.


I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though.I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

[/quote]

When would it ever make sense for a wholesaler to dropship at a loss to other dealers? I don't get it.

 

[bmc398]

thank'd, cash flow, leverage, tax offsetting, general CFO practices.


I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though.I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

When would it ever make sense for a wholesaler to dropship at a loss to other dealers? I don't get it.[/quote]
Right, people just arent grasping this. The wholesalers arent selling at a loss. They are making the full $$$ by selling on dealernet. The sole loss in this is taken by mama_bear.

Think, if you can sell something at cost, and get it all day long (id buy 3 cases of sterling youd sell me at cost) then why sell for $500+ less and leave all the money on the table.

Marro and others you aren't stupid and I 100% see what you're saying, but this situation is nothing like that. Mamabear has NO inventory. When they sell at a loss, there are no tax benefits. Im not sure there are real benefits either.

The facts are...Mama_bear buys on dealernet, the wholesaler gets FULL ASKING PRICE for the case and the customer gets their cards.

The question is...how long can this be sustained before the bottom drops out?

 

[bigalbert]

maybe mama bear and the wholesalers selling are one and the same.

 

[Mr.Whipple]

thank'd, cash flow, leverage, tax offsetting, general CFO practices.


I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

[/quote]

I happen to be a CFO, Glad you see my reasoning. If a wholesaler came to me for advice, This would be part of it.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I thought of a possible(hypothetical) explanation if it isn't outright fraud: Is it possible this is a case of money laundering? I know that cash is king at the big shows and a lot of it changes hand and plenty of folks have no plans to report these card transaction for any number of reasons. I can't see why anyone would take a guaranteed loss unless they have a seller willing to accept cash payment on cases where the money can be "washed" through the guise of legitimate business for tax purposes. Obviously this would involve more than 1 person but I can see a situation where a go between brokers a cash contract where the buyer(our seller in this hypothetical case) pays the broker cash for the cases in order to keep & report sales coming through Paypal as legitimate income. Of course I'm just talking out of my arse here with a potential explanation that involves defrauding the IRS rather than the customer. Cut and run Ponzi style scheme is plenty plausible as well of course.

I was thinking about this earlier today and this is the conclusion I came to as well. Perhaps drugs or prostitution money that needs to be legitimized...

 

[Mr.Whipple]

They have mama bear buy on dealernet to appear as being a seperate entity pretty much. If it was a scam or ponzi scheme as claimed. Their loses would of ate all the capitol up by now, They would have to have another account brining in more cash. But people are getting product by them. eBay and pay pal have probably already received concerns and investigated them. Any red flags in their accounts would be known and they would be thrown off eBay. If you receive payments multiple times for the same amount, pay pal does investigate your account.

thank'd, cash flow, leverage, tax offsetting, general CFO practices.


I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though.I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

When would it ever make sense for a wholesaler to dropship at a loss to other dealers? I don't get it.

Right, people just arent grasping this. The wholesalers arent selling at a loss. They are making the full $$$ by selling on dealernet. The sole loss in this is taken by mama_bear.

Think, if you can sell something at cost, and get it all day long (id buy 3 cases of sterling youd sell me at cost) then why sell for $500+ less and leave all the money on the table.

Marro and others you aren't stupid and I 100% see what you're saying, but this situation is nothing like that. Mamabear has NO inventory. When they sell at a loss, there are no tax benefits. Im not sure there are real benefits either.

The facts are...Mama_bear buys on dealernet, the wholesaler gets FULL ASKING PRICE for the case and the customer gets their cards.

The question is...how long can this be sustained before the bottom drops out?[/quote]

 

[Bob Loblaw]

thank'd, cash flow, leverage, tax offsetting, general CFO practices.


I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

I happen to be a CFO, Glad you see my reasoning. If a wholesaler came to me for advice, This would be part of it.[/quote]

Let's make this clear.

Product X sells for $1000 a case on eBay. Mamabear is buying this case on Dealernet from dealers for $900, then selling it for $700 on eBay and having Dealernet dealers drop ship it.

There is no way that they're turning a profit when they are losing $200 per case - the same case they could turn a $100 profit on.

 

[AKA Coastal]

thank'd, cash flow, leverage, tax offsetting, general CFO practices.


I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

I happen to be a CFO, Glad you see my reasoning. If a wholesaler came to me for advice, This would be part of it.

Let's make this clear.

Product X sells for $1000 a case on eBay. Mamabear is buying this case on Dealernet from dealers for $900, then selling it for $700 on eBay and having Dealernet dealers drop ship it.

There is no way that they're turning a profit when they are losing $200 per case - the same case they could turn a $100 profit on.[/quote]

Lol, how many different ways have we spelled this out now. I'm not sure why people aren't getting it.

 

[SeattleSports]

[quote="Jeff N.":3c5l6q8w]

thank'd, cash flow, leverage, tax offsetting, general CFO practices.


I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

I happen to be a CFO, Glad you see my reasoning. If a wholesaler came to me for advice, This would be part of it.

Let's make this clear.

Product X sells for $1000 a case on eBay. Mamabear is buying this case on Dealernet from dealers for $900, then selling it for $700 on eBay and having Dealernet dealers drop ship it.

There is no way that they're turning a profit when they are losing $200 per case - the same case they could turn a $100 profit on.[/quote:3c5l6q8w]

Lol, how many different ways have we spelled this out now. I'm not sure why people aren't getting it.[/quote]

I thought people were joking at first but now I really don't think they get it lol

 

[Mr.Whipple]

If they were laundering money like some have claimed. They have created a huge paper trail and that wouldn't happen. I think the purpose of money laundering would be to put yourself on the grid and subject to multiple investigations. Oh wait no it wouldn't.

thank'd, cash flow, leverage, tax offsetting, general CFO practices.


I dont blame you for taking that stance and its perfectly understandable also. People are making a big deal out of something that makes sense to others. But it also is a really common business practice, To me it makes sense for a wholesaler to do something like this though. I am an idiot though, Wasted almost 7 years of my life attending business schools.

I happen to be a CFO, Glad you see my reasoning. If a wholesaler came to me for advice, This would be part of it.

Let's make this clear.

Product X sells for $1000 a case on eBay. Mamabear is buying this case on Dealernet from dealers for $900, then selling it for $700 on eBay and having Dealernet dealers drop ship it.

There is no way that they're turning a profit when they are losing $200 per case - the same case they could turn a $100 profit on.[/quote]

 

[rico08]

Then business majors turn into attorneys.