My opinion of Willie Mays has changed.....

[HPC]

I'll ask the question once again.

Pray tell . . .

how are you privy to this foul, judgemental and
inappropriate view?

Collect Hard!,
RGBII

I've read only two of your posts and I already dislike you

Seriously.

I also didnt know racism was forward and reverse

 

[morgoth]

No. He can charge what he wants because it is a business.

Theres where you're not fully accurate. If its a business, and he is charging for a service, it has to be a service you want and how you want it. You cant go to a contractor, tell them that you want a new front door with a brass handle and have the contractor say, "OK, pay me and I'll put in a door, but I wont put on the door you want and I want to put it on the other side of your house." Any other "business" that would not adhere to the requests of the customer would go out of business.

I understand your point, but here is where you are wrong.
1. Mays is still in high demand.
2. He will always be in high demand until he passes.
3. Many signers have restrictions on what they will/will not sign.

So is it still not a business?

How am I wrong?
1-I didnt say Mays WASNT in high demand.
2-There might be high demand but if he continues to piss off customers, there wont be as much demand.
3-Signers restrictions are usually set things. Mays just randomly refuses to cooperate and will sign wherever he wants. thats not a restriction, thats being a dick.

So again, show me where/how I am wrong.

Read 1.
Reason 1 trumps everything.

No it doesn't, not by a long shot. It doesn't resolve the fact he doesn't provide the service he agreed to. It doesn't resolve the fact that he makes alot of his customers unhappy with his attitude and service. Those things make him a *****.

 

[TomMurry]

No. He can charge what he wants because it is a business.

Theres where you're not fully accurate. If its a business, and he is charging for a service, it has to be a service you want and how you want it. You cant go to a contractor, tell them that you want a new front door with a brass handle and have the contractor say, "OK, pay me and I'll put in a door, but I wont put on the door you want and I want to put it on the other side of your house." Any other "business" that would not adhere to the requests of the customer would go out of business.

I understand your point, but here is where you are wrong.
1. Mays is still in high demand.
2. He will always be in high demand until he passes.
3. Many signers have restrictions on what they will/will not sign.

So is it still not a business?

How am I wrong?
1-I didnt say Mays WASNT in high demand.
2-There might be high demand but if he continues to piss off customers, there wont be as much demand.
3-Signers restrictions are usually set things. Mays just randomly refuses to cooperate and will sign wherever he wants. thats not a restriction, thats being a dick.

So again, show me where/how I am wrong.

Read 1.
Reason 1 trumps everything.

Sorry to tell you, being an ******* trumps being in demand. Demand changes, being an ******* is forever.

 

[gocubsgo]

Willie Mays is hands down the most overated player in the history of baseball. Mays is WAY down in list in all time OPS. You can say guys like Bonds benefited from roids all you want, but even players from the same era like Williams, Mantle, DiMaggio and Musial were more productive. And before anyone says Mays stats are impacted by the end of his career, Mays has 4 seasons with an OPS above 1.000 while Ted Ball Game had 18!!!!!

1. Babe Ruth+ 1.1636 L
2. Ted Williams+ 1.1155 L
3. Lou Gehrig+ 1.0798 L
4. Barry Bonds 1.0512 L
5. Albert Pujols (30) 1.0507 R
6. Jimmie Foxx+ 1.0376 R
7. Hank Greenberg+ 1.0169 R
8. Rogers Hornsby+ 1.0103 R
9. Manny Ramirez (38) .9978 R
10. Mark McGwire .9823 R
11. Todd Helton (36) .9797 L
12. Mickey Mantle+ .9773 B
13. Joe DiMaggio+ .9771 R
14. Stan Musial+ .9757 L
15. Frank Thomas .9740 R
16. Larry Walker .9654 L
17. Jim Thome (39) .9635 L
18. Johnny Mize+ .9591 L
19. Alex Rodriguez (34) .9590 R
20. Lance Berkman (34) .9540 B
21. Jeff Bagwell .9480 R
22. Mel Ott+ .9471 L
23. Vladimir Guerrero (35) .9460 R
24. Ralph Kiner+ .9459 R
25. Ryan Howard (30) .9451 L
Lefty O'Doul .9451 L
27. Ty Cobb+ .9450 L
28. Dan Brouthers+ .9425 L
29. Chipper Jones (38) .9414 B
Willie Mays+ .9414 R

 

[Mudcatsfan]

I think its pretty much a fact that Mays is an ******* when you see a Giants fan calling him out :lol:

Oh shat, my bad. I forgot the internet forum sarcasm squiggly lines.

~Don't knock my invention~

~TM~ Mudcatsfan

 

[Mudcatsfan]

[quote="ALL_THE_HYPE":1sh4040l]

Oh my, the reverse racists have made a stand.

Lovely and impressive!

Yet, the whole point that I was attempting to make
is this . ..

have a little respect. Is that too much to expect?

Aye, obviously, it is.

Cal Ripken. Jr. can charge $125.00 for an auto and
$40.00 additional for a pre-determined list of ROY,
All-Star MVP, etc. I don't hear, nor read here of any
whining about that.

Willie Mays is 79 years old and has lived a life that
you or I will never know.

Is it too much to ask for a little respect?

Collect Hard!,
RGBII

I can only speak for myself here but any athlete that charges more than like $50 for an auto is a jerk IMO. And realistically, they should sign for free. Fans worship you your entire career and you repay them by charging them for your autograph? Seems a little ridiculous to me.

Sure, go ahead and argue that athletes don't have time to stand there signing free stuff all day for everyone.

All I know is that if I were a professional athlete, I would be honored to have people ask for my autograph, and would enjoy meeting fans who love me.

Anyway, it's not just Mays.

It's just the the world we live in. If people can make money on something as simple as signing their name, they're going to get as much out of it as they can.

Yep, I understand it completely...I just wouldn't do things that way if I were gifted enough to be a pro athlete.[/quote:1sh4040l]


Try to remember that Mays probably made as much in his career as Barry Zito will make post-all star break. (even accounting for inflation)

 

[Mudcatsfan]

[quote="jbhofmann":3laq8v7r]

No. He can charge what he wants because it is a business.

Theres where you're not fully accurate. If its a business, and he is charging for a service, it has to be a service you want and how you want it. You cant go to a contractor, tell them that you want a new front door with a brass handle and have the contractor say, "OK, pay me and I'll put in a door, but I wont put on the door you want and I want to put it on the other side of your house." Any other "business" that would not adhere to the requests of the customer would go out of business.

I understand your point, but here is where you are wrong.
1. Mays is still in high demand.
2. He will always be in high demand until he passes.
3. Many signers have restrictions on what they will/will not sign.

So is it still not a business?

How am I wrong?
1-I didnt say Mays WASNT in high demand.
2-There might be high demand but if he continues to piss off customers, there wont be as much demand.
3-Signers restrictions are usually set things. Mays just randomly refuses to cooperate and will sign wherever he wants. thats not a restriction, thats being a dick.

So again, show me where/how I am wrong.

Read 1.
Reason 1 trumps everything.

Sorry to tell you, being an ******* trumps being in demand. Demand changes, being an ******* is forever.[/quote:3laq8v7r]

Sounds like a DeBeers commercial.

I can hear the crescendo of violins right now.

 

[Mudcatsfan]

Rather than wondering, i did the math:

Year Contract Inflation Value Today
1973 $170,000.00 5.08 $863,600.00
1972 $170,000.00 5.25 $892,500.00
1971 $170,000.00 5.43 $923,100.00
1970 $180,000.00 5.73 $1,031,400.00
1969 $180,000.00 6.08 $1,094,400.00
1968 $170,000.00 6.37 $1,082,900.00
1967 $160,000.00 6.56 $1,049,600.00
1966 $150,000.00 6.79 $1,018,500.00
1965 $140,000.00 6.92 $968,800.00
1964 $130,000.00 6.99 $908,700.00
1963 $120,000.00 7.1 $852,000.00
1962 $110,000.00 7.2 $792,000.00
1961 $100,000.00 7.25 $725,000.00
1960 $90,000.00 7.35 $661,500.00
1959 $80,000.00 7.47 $597,600.00
1958 $70,000.00 7.6 $532,000.00
1957 $60,000.00 7.82 $469,200.00
1956 $50,000.00 8.06 $403,000.00
1955 $30,000.00 8.09 $242,700.00
1954 $21,250.00 8.03 $170,637.50
1953 $12,500.00 8.09 $101,125.00
1952 $7,500.00 8.15 $61,125.00
1951 $5,000.00 8.64 $43,200.00
1950 $6,000.00 9.15 $54,900.00

Total $2,382,250.00 $15,539,487.50
Average Year $99,260.42 $647,478.65

So that's 15.5 million in his CAREER inflated for today's dollars.

Barry Zito made 18.5 million THIS YEAR, and last year, and next year, then 19 million, then 20 million, then 18 million again.

So yeah, Willie can charge whatever he wants for his signature,

 

[TomMurry]

Rather than wondering, i did the math:

Year Contract Inflation Value Today
1973 $170,000.00 5.08 $863,600.00
1972 $170,000.00 5.25 $892,500.00
1971 $170,000.00 5.43 $923,100.00
1970 $180,000.00 5.73 $1,031,400.00
1969 $180,000.00 6.08 $1,094,400.00
1968 $170,000.00 6.37 $1,082,900.00
1967 $160,000.00 6.56 $1,049,600.00
1966 $150,000.00 6.79 $1,018,500.00
1965 $140,000.00 6.92 $968,800.00
1964 $130,000.00 6.99 $908,700.00
1963 $120,000.00 7.1 $852,000.00
1962 $110,000.00 7.2 $792,000.00
1961 $100,000.00 7.25 $725,000.00
1960 $90,000.00 7.35 $661,500.00
1959 $80,000.00 7.47 $597,600.00
1958 $70,000.00 7.6 $532,000.00
1957 $60,000.00 7.82 $469,200.00
1956 $50,000.00 8.06 $403,000.00
1955 $30,000.00 8.09 $242,700.00
1954 $21,250.00 8.03 $170,637.50
1953 $12,500.00 8.09 $101,125.00
1952 $7,500.00 8.15 $61,125.00
1951 $5,000.00 8.64 $43,200.00
1950 $6,000.00 9.15 $54,900.00

Total $2,382,250.00 $15,539,487.50
Average Year $99,260.42 $647,478.65

So that's 15.5 million in his CAREER inflated for today's dollars.

Barry Zito made 18.5 million THIS YEAR, and last year, and next year, then 19 million, then 20 million, then 18 million again.

So yeah, Willie can charge whatever he wants for his signature,

No you have to adjust EVERYTHING ELSE for that time. You cant compare numbers from that time with this time. Its apples and oranges. If everything else at that time was cheaper, its irrelevant what people make today.

If a guy makes 100 million in a career and buys a 5 million dollar home, he spent 5% of his career earnings.
If another made 15 million in his career and spent 750k on a home, he spent 5% of his career earnings.

You could buy a much more expensive home 45 years ago for a lot less money. At that time, it wasnt considered less money because everything was relative. same goes for today. Cant compare earnings in different eras.

 

[RL24]

Willie Mays is hands down the most overated player in the history of baseball. Mays is WAY down in list in all time OPS. You can say guys like Bonds benefited from roids all you want, but even players from the same era like Williams, Mantle, DiMaggio and Musial were more productive. And before anyone says Mays stats are impacted by the end of his career, Mays has 4 seasons with an OPS above 1.000 while Ted Ball Game had 18!!!!!

If the greatness of ones career was based on OPS, you would have an excellent point. Unfortunately.........

 

[TomMurry]

Willie Mays is hands down the most overated player in the history of baseball. Mays is WAY down in list in all time OPS. You can say guys like Bonds benefited from roids all you want, but even players from the same era like Williams, Mantle, DiMaggio and Musial were more productive. And before anyone says Mays stats are impacted by the end of his career, Mays has 4 seasons with an OPS above 1.000 while Ted Ball Game had 18!!!!!

If the greatness of ones career was based on OPS, you would have an excellent point. Unfortunately.........

Well said! Its the same as saying that the speed of a baserunner determines how many bases he steals.
Rickey was far from the fastest in the league, but he was the best EVER at reading pitchers and getting a good jump. That PLUS some speed made him deadly on the basepath.

 

[WJCIII]

I'm fine with the guy charging whatever he wants. If people will pay it then why not charge it?

This is why I think Mays is a *******:

I paid to get Mays' autograph at a Tristar show in Houston in 1990. I was 11 years old and paid for the auto with my hard earned allowance. When I got to the table to get his auto I told him it was great to see him in person and thanked him for the auto. Not only did he not respond, he never bothered to look up. He added in a long, disgusted sigh for good measure. I wasn't an adult trying to make money, I was an 11 year old kid. And he wasn't a blind old man, he was 59 years old. Most 59 year olds I know don't treat people that way. The guy was putting money in his pockets for writing his name on things and having people tell him how great he was yet he was pissed about it the entire time. Everybody in line around me got the same treatment I got that day. I've seen Willie at 5 or 6 events over the last couple of years and his interaction hasn't changed. The guy just sucks as a human being.

 

[ffgameman]

Off the main topic, but I will say that many of you have lost respect in my book for how RGBII was treated.

Richard is one of the most passionate collectors you will ever meet, as well as one of the most generous. He truly cares about this hobby. Yes, he is outspoken - but at least he doesn't spew hatred (or worse) at other members like some of you do for no reason.

Will I get blasted for this? Probably, yes. But, I don't care. Richard and I disagree on many things, but you not find someone who cares more about this hobby and fellow collectors.

 

[JoshHamilton]

Off the main topic, but I will say that many of you have lost respect in my book for how RGBII was treated.

Richard is one of most passionate collectors you will ever meet, as well as one of the most generous. He truly cares about this hobby. Yes, he is outspoken - but at least he doesn't spew hatred (or worse) at other members like some of you do for no reason.

Will I get blasted for this? Probably, yes. But, I don't care. Richard and I disagree on many things, but you not find someone who cares more about this hobby and fellow collectors.

I'm sorry, I don't know the guy so I'm judging him by what he's said in this thread.

After reading his first two posts, I merely disliked him. After reading the entire thread. I've come to the conclusion he's the single most obnoxious poster I've ever come across.

 

[ffgameman]

Off the main topic, but I will say that many of you have lost respect in my book for how RGBII was treated.

Richard is one of most passionate collectors you will ever meet, as well as one of the most generous. He truly cares about this hobby. Yes, he is outspoken - but at least he doesn't spew hatred (or worse) at other members like some of you do for no reason.

Will I get blasted for this? Probably, yes. But, I don't care. Richard and I disagree on many things, but you not find someone who cares more about this hobby and fellow collectors.

I'm sorry, I don't know the guy so I'm judging him by what he's said in this thread.

After reading his first two posts, I merely disliked him. After reading the entire thread. I've come to the conclusion he's the single most obnoxious poster I've ever come across.

If you had nearly 12,000 posts to base you opinion on like I do, your assessment would likely be different.

Richard is not afraid to speak his mind, but he has ONLY good intentions.

 

[JoshHamilton]

12000 posts? He has 27

 

[matfanofold]

Willie Mays is hands down the most overated player in the history of baseball. Mays is WAY down in list in all time OPS. You can say guys like Bonds benefited from roids all you want, but even players from the same era like Williams, Mantle, DiMaggio and Musial were more productive. And before anyone says Mays stats are impacted by the end of his career, Mays has 4 seasons with an OPS above 1.000 while Ted Ball Game had 18!!!!!

This post has me actually laughing, and thats not something I often do while reading message boards!

Just so we are clear....

Aside from the fact(s) that he had almost three thousand three hundred hits, over one thousand nine hundred runs batted in, over three hundred and thirty stolen bases, a lifetime three hundred plus batting average, six hundred and sixty career home runs, multiple most valuable player awards, twenty all star game selections, eleven gold gloves, has led the league, and most multiple times, in ever single offensive statistical catagory ever comtemplated, and was a legend on defence. All of this means nothing, but the fact he ranks 29'th out of every single ball player to EVER play the game on a list soley comprised of future and current hall of famers makes him over rated? Nay, "hands down the most overated player in the history of baseball"? Am I understanding this correctly?

Please tell me you were joking!! Please tell me this is not what opinion has boiled down to! Please?

 

[ffgameman]

12000 posts? He has 27

Trading Card Central posts, which I realize many guys here don't visit.

 

[JoshHamilton]

12000 posts? He has 27

Trading Card Central posts, which I realize many guys here don't visit.

Ahh. Yeah I've never heard of it

 

[markakis8]

Off the main topic, but I will say that many of you have lost respect in my book for how RGBII was treated.

Richard is one of the most passionate collectors you will ever meet, as well as one of the most generous. He truly cares about this hobby. Yes, he is outspoken - but at least he doesn't spew hatred (or worse) at other members like some of you do for no reason.

Will I get blasted for this? Probably, yes. But, I don't care. Richard and I disagree on many things, but you not find someone who cares more about this hobby and fellow collectors.

I think many of us were scratching our heads as to why he was accusing people of spewing racist comments and then getting upset for being accused of racism when clearly no one did...

His first post on his board - he admits to being highly medicated - I just chalked it up to that :lol: