My opinion of Willie Mays has changed.....

[predatorkj]

No. He can charge what he wants because it is a business.

Theres where you're not fully accurate. If its a business, and he is charging for a service, it has to be a service you want and how you want it. You cant go to a contractor, tell them that you want a new front door with a brass handle and have the contractor say, "OK, pay me and I'll put in a door, but I wont put on the door you want and I want to put it on the other side of your house." Any other "business" that would not adhere to the requests of the customer would go out of business.

Yep. That makes a lot of sense and is why most of us are too scared to pay that kind of money.

 

[predatorkj]

Oh my, the reverse racists have made a stand.

Lovely and impressive!

Yet, the whole point that I was attempting to make
is this . ..

have a little respect. Is that too much to expect?

Aye, obviously, it is.

Cal Ripken. Jr. can charge $125.00 for an auto and
$40.00 additional for a pre-determined list of ROY,
All-Star MVP, etc. I don't hear, nor read here of any
whining about that.

Willie Mays is 79 years old and has lived a life that
you or I will never know.

Is it too much to ask for a little respect?

Collect Hard!,
RGBII

I can only speak for myself here but any athlete that charges more than like $50 for an auto is a jerk IMO. And realistically, they should sign for free. Fans worship you your entire career and you repay them by charging them for your autograph? Seems a little ridiculous to me.

Sure, go ahead and argue that athletes don't have time to stand there signing free stuff all day for everyone.

All I know is that if I were a professional athlete, I would be honored to have people ask for my autograph, and would enjoy meeting fans who love me.

Anyway, it's not just Mays.

You know I bet there was a time when these old timers signed for anyone and everyone for no charge. Sadly it was before everyone started making money off of them.

So do you really believe Mays should sign for free or even $50 when half those people are going to turn around and sell the ball on ebay for $129.99?

Really, signing for autos is not part of their job.
But I bet you in the 50's and 60's Mays gave out thousands of autos and I would be surprised if he charged for any!

You know how many times the people in charge of free autograph events give us crap for going? A lot. I got called a dealer the other day for getting a Jacoby Jones auto'd mini helmet and a David Anderson Bowman Chrome RC signed. Yeah...cause I can make millions off of those right?

The problem is...while they try to stick it to the dealers...they end up screwing everyone and IMO...if you are going to F it up for everyone then just don't sign at all. I don't need you screwing up my item(which oddly enough has been going on a lot lately at the behest of the event promoters) or charging an assload because you are scared what people will do with the autograph. Now granted you may charge what you wish. But don't call me a whiner for calling it absurd and don't think I am a dealer just off of assumption alone. That crap is getting on my last freaking nerve. Collector's like nice stuff too. Who the hell wants to collect crap? The point is to try to get the best thing signed in the best manner.

 

[predatorkj]

I can only speak for myself here but any athlete that charges more than like $50 for an auto is a jerk IMO. And realistically, they should sign for free. Fans worship you your entire career and you repay them by charging them for your autograph? Seems a little ridiculous to me.

Sure, go ahead and argue that athletes don't have time to stand there signing free stuff all day for everyone.

All I know is that if I were a professional athlete, I would be honored to have people ask for my autograph, and would enjoy meeting fans who love me.

Anyway, it's not just Mays.

It's just the the world we live in. If people can make money on something as simple as signing their name, they're going to get as much out of it as they can.

ALL_THE_HYPE, that's how you would feel in the beginning, sure. Maybe even after signing your name a few thousand times. Then you look on ebay, and realize that people aren't getting your autograph because they think you're great and your career is great and they love you so much... it's because they want to make money off of you.

Like Hallsgator, it's just the world we live in. Only he got it wrong. If people can make money on something as simple as having somebody famous sign their name for them, they're going to get as much out of it as they can.

Pretty soon everywhere you go, you will have a line of 100 people waiting for you to sign your name. None of them care about you, they just know they can sell your autograph for $20. It's like standing there handing out $20 bills to people, and you have to stand there doing it for half an hour, when all you wanted to do was go into this café and get a drink.

Then don't sign for anybody if you are that worried about it. Stop with the stipulations.

 

[predatorkj]

Rather than wondering, i did the math:

Year Contract Inflation Value Today
1973 $170,000.00 5.08 $863,600.00
1972 $170,000.00 5.25 $892,500.00
1971 $170,000.00 5.43 $923,100.00
1970 $180,000.00 5.73 $1,031,400.00
1969 $180,000.00 6.08 $1,094,400.00
1968 $170,000.00 6.37 $1,082,900.00
1967 $160,000.00 6.56 $1,049,600.00
1966 $150,000.00 6.79 $1,018,500.00
1965 $140,000.00 6.92 $968,800.00
1964 $130,000.00 6.99 $908,700.00
1963 $120,000.00 7.1 $852,000.00
1962 $110,000.00 7.2 $792,000.00
1961 $100,000.00 7.25 $725,000.00
1960 $90,000.00 7.35 $661,500.00
1959 $80,000.00 7.47 $597,600.00
1958 $70,000.00 7.6 $532,000.00
1957 $60,000.00 7.82 $469,200.00
1956 $50,000.00 8.06 $403,000.00
1955 $30,000.00 8.09 $242,700.00
1954 $21,250.00 8.03 $170,637.50
1953 $12,500.00 8.09 $101,125.00
1952 $7,500.00 8.15 $61,125.00
1951 $5,000.00 8.64 $43,200.00
1950 $6,000.00 9.15 $54,900.00

Total $2,382,250.00 $15,539,487.50
Average Year $99,260.42 $647,478.65

So that's 15.5 million in his CAREER inflated for today's dollars.

Barry Zito made 18.5 million THIS YEAR, and last year, and next year, then 19 million, then 20 million, then 18 million again.

So yeah, Willie can charge whatever he wants for his signature,

Even with all of that said...he got paid what even by today's standards would be considered low up through 1954. But by 1955...he started making okay money even by today's standards. I could certainly live off of $30,000 and do so on much less quite regularly now. But from 1956 on up...he made good money even by today's standards. Take 1960 for instance. I couldn't even imagine making 90 grand a year. I'd have some nice stuff and an awesome home. Now maybe his money wasn't in line with ball players make these days but these days...its downright dumb what these players make. I could see them making a couple MIL a year but somebody brought up Zito making 18 million or something in one year...yeah...that's dumb.

And talk to your grandfolks and find out what it would have been like had you made 90,000 in 1960. Yeah...

Here's the difference though.... Grandpa was a doctor in 1960 and made $90,000. How much does a doctor make today? $661,500.00. Imagine though that Grandpa was much better than the guy who made $661,500.00. He would probably be pretty bitter that the kids today who couldn't hold his jock as a doc make so much more than him.

Now imagine if Grandpa made $90,000 in 1960 as a baseball player. And now, players who aren't as good as he was... they don't make $661,500.00. They make 38X that amount. They make $25 million a year. And they aren't as good as Grandpa Willie.

Yeah and taking it on fans(or in your instance...patients) is just awesome isn't it. My take is you can be bitter as you want but it only gets you so far. After a while people stop caring. Its your problem, not theirs. If Mays is really this upset over this...God bless him. Because obviously he needs some sort of help. You live your life around all the problems you have faced...it makes for one miserable individual. And a giant fool to boot.

 

[predatorkj]

A 79 year old man (Hall of Famer) is being openly attacked
on a "cardboard forum."

He is commomly known as "one of, if not, the greatest" center
fielders of all time. Well. I guess that and $1.59 will buy you a
cup of coffee.

He was born in Mobile, Alabama in 1931. I can not imagine
what he went through growing up in that vile and vicious
place at that time for a black man.

I'm a Georgia boy myself, so I'M QUITE SURE that I have
the background and 48 years of knowledge on when to
call a redneck(s) out.

He is an old man coming to the end of a remarkable life.
He has overcome many hurdles that you or I will never
conceive.

. . . and yet, we have this tripe!

I need a shower at this point.

Collect Hard!,
RGBII

Oh give it a break. I had plenty of ass beatings and worse growing up in a Mexican neighborhood. Want to a cry a river then fine. But I don't, nor do others, want to hear it.

Lovely and profound, I stand corrected.

Collect Hard!,
RGBII.

Not really either. Its called everyone has problems and as an adult, unless you have mental issues, you have to learn to deal with them. If you can't then your life will suck. And you can't expect everyone to sit here and allow you to milk it to death. If you want to then fine but don't look for sympathy everywhere. I know a lot of hispanic people. What am I supposed to do? Hate all of them because some kid in grade school and 10 of his buddies beat my ass or stabbed me? Yeah...that's gonna get me far.

 

[morgoth]

Ok I just read Mays Autobiography and lets set some things straight.

1. He did grow up in the deep south.
2. He saw and had some family members have some things happen that was racist.
3. He was very protected all through his childhood. His father was a professional or semi pro player. He was always the best athlete in his town so even in JH and HS he was protected.
4. He played in the ***** Leagues while in HS and was making more money than most families were at a very young age.
5. He played for a manager Leo Durocher that treated him like a son. Mays teammates actually resented him for the special treatment he received.
6. Durocher and other teammates (Monte Irvin) watched Mays all the time and hardly left him alone so he wouldn't get in trouble with women or with other whites.

I don't see anything here showing Mays had a hard racist upbringing where he had to overcome tons of discremination (more than any other player).

Hell his dad was able to get him playing time in semi pro just because he was so good, that nepitisim helped start his career. He was in the ***** leagues I believe 2 years at most and the minors for 1. He was received as a saviour for the Giants as a Rookie and they won the Penant in his second season in which he made that awesome catch and became a household name.

Yeah I see where he deserves to be so bitter and was treated so unfair in his early career.

 

[Anthony K.]

Ok I just read Mays Autobiography and lets set some things straight.

1. He did grow up in the deep south.
2. He saw and had some family members have some things happen that was racist.
3. He was very protected all through his childhood. His father was a professional or semi pro player. He was always the best athlete in his town so even in JH and HS he was protected.
4. He played in the ***** Leagues while in HS and was making more money than most families were at a very young age.
5. He played for a manager Leo Durocher that treated him like a son. Mays teammates actually resented him for the special treatment he received.
6. Durocher and other teammates (Monte Irvin) watched Mays all the time and hardly left him alone so he wouldn't get in trouble with women or with other whites.

I don't see anything here showing Mays had a hard racist upbringing where he had to overcome tons of discremination (more than any other player).

Hell his dad was able to get him playing time in semi pro just because he was so good, that nepitisim helped start his career. He was in the ***** leagues I believe 2 years at most and the minors for 1. He was received as a saviour for the Giants as a Rookie and they won the Penant in his second season in which he made that awesome catch and became a household name.

Yeah I see where he deserves to be so bitter and was treated so unfair in his early career.

Don't want to comment on your opinions, but just wanted to say that his autobiography was quite the read.

I thoroughly enjoyed it and it really opened my eyes to his career and life (much like Satchel Paige's bio opened my eyes to the ***** leagues).

 

[lisu]

Ok I just read Mays Autobiography and lets set some things straight.

1. He did grow up in the deep south.
2. He saw and had some family members have some things happen that was racist.
3. He was very protected all through his childhood. His father was a professional or semi pro player. He was always the best athlete in his town so even in JH and HS he was protected.
4. He played in the ***** Leagues while in HS and was making more money than most families were at a very young age.
5. He played for a manager Leo Durocher that treated him like a son. Mays teammates actually resented him for the special treatment he received.
6. Durocher and other teammates (Monte Irvin) watched Mays all the time and hardly left him alone so he wouldn't get in trouble with women or with other whites.

I don't see anything here showing Mays had a hard racist upbringing where he had to overcome tons of discremination (more than any other player).

Hell his dad was able to get him playing time in semi pro just because he was so good, that nepitisim helped start his career. He was in the ***** leagues I believe 2 years at most and the minors for 1. He was received as a saviour for the Giants as a Rookie and they won the Penant in his second season in which he made that awesome catch and became a household name.

Yeah I see where he deserves to be so bitter and was treated so unfair in his early career.

I think the major thing that Mays had to deal with was criticism from others of his same race. They criticized him for not doing more.

 

[morgoth]

It is a good book, I agree. I just think that some here want to point to Mays as being a person who was treated unfairley all his life.

I am sure there were issues but for the most part he was recognized at an early age as being a special talent and has been treated special almost his whole life. I would say to the point of feeling entitled to be treated that way.

I agree that some people thought Mays could have done more for his race but if you read the biography you will find that just wasn't how he was raised.

Also the point earlier about him being great around kids is explained by how he grew up and he always has been great with kids from day one.

Durocher was critized for not letting Mays speak for himself in interviews. But Mays didn't like to talk and was perceived as shy to the media. That lead some to think of him as not intelligent.

Very similar to happened to Clemente though his was due to language barriers.

 

[archiebunkerjr]

I had a pleasant experience with Willie at the 2001 National. I had him sign 3 OMLB's and he signed all 3 beautifully on the sweet spot. I paid $85 for each sig. Hank Aaron signed that same day. I was told that Willie had to make sure that he charged more than Aaron (Hank charged $75 for a signed ball), Willie would not sign at the same time that Hank signed and Willie signed at a table that was separated a little further away from the other guys signing at that particular time.

As I placed the 3 balls on the table in front of Willie, I thanked him for appearing at the show and told him it was a pleasure to meet him. He politely responsed, "You're welcome". He also had a young lady (20ish) sitting next to him. I also said hi to her and asked her how she was doing. She smiled and said she was fine.

Willie had a '99 Baseball HOF Induction cap on. As he was signing, I told him that I attended the '99 induction and that it was great seeing him there. Side note - Willie had not attended very many HOF inductions betwen the '99 induction and his own induction. It was kind of a big deal when he was in Cooperstown in 1999. I then asked him if he was going to attend the 2001 induction. He gave me an enthusiatic, "Oh yeah".

As he was finishing with the signing, I told him one of the signed balls would be a gift to my Dad. I also told him that my Dad always talks about how great Willie was (this is true. My Dad mentions Mantle sometimes. But he almost always references Willie Mays as being the best player when my Dad talks about baseball when he was a young boy/young man). Willie seemed to appreciate the compliment because he looked up, made eye contact and gave me a smile as he gave me back the signed balls.

I feel bad for you guys that had a bad experience with Willie. But as you can read above, my experience was very memorable. My only regret is that I did not drag my father with me to Cleveland that day. My Dad was so excited to receive the Mays ball (I also got him an Aaron ball and glass case) that he had to make some tacky yellow labels for our glass cases. Those yellow labels are hideous but he was so excited to add these labels to the case that I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble.