One of those experiences that makes me question this Hobby

[pigskincardboard]

With regards to Matt's cases, it could still well be within the expected odds, I really don't know.

The problem with Topps and card companies is that there is no way to figure this stuff out until the day the final checklist appears.

More information would definitely make understanding your risk quite a bit easier.

They are not selling us on an idea, they are selling us a product.

Give the damn checklist ahead of time.
Give the damn pack-odds for the refractors, plates, etc.
Give the damn odds for hitting an autograph AHEAD of time.
If you are inserting 1000 Machado base autographs and 4000 Deck McGuire autographs, break them down into GROUPA & GROUPB and give proper odds.
If you are going to toss base retail autographs in, mention it ahead of time.


Someone should be able to go through the checklist, mark down what they think each card will fetch, and be able to do the math on their expected value.

I'd have a lot easier time judging anyone that busted wax if they had access to the information, but chose to ignore it or didn't understand it.

You have to realize that there's always going to be a chance of either blowing the odds away or succumbing to them. Even in this case, it's a pretty good gamble to expect to get X percent back but there's still a shot of getting X-30% back.

I really think that Topps takes advantage of having sole control of the information and they've yet to be called to task on it. They're selling a *** of product on a regular basis without even telling people what's in it.

There is and there should be risk at the margins, but the vast majority of product should yield what's expected. Furthermore, this is why people are calling Topps to task: Boxes are yielding what's expected, but what's expected is AWFUL. Maybe topps decided that an exclusive license meant they'd have to cut back on ten percent of costs. I don't know.

The number one complaint just seems to be a lack of information.

 

[Messier2]

Matt,

Sorry about your rips. I didn't read through all the 7+ pages we have now but I feel your pain. To get screwed on one case is rough (which has happened to me before) but with the amount of cases you ripped...that was tough to swallow no matter if this was for hobby or for investment purposes.

I know this is why many rip 30 plus cases just to hope to pull the odds their way just a little bit or just stick to buying singles.

This is a great hobby bro', don't let this experience take you out of it!

BTW, did you get those cases from the same source/dealer? I've heard that sometimes that may not be the best idea because they could be sent a bad "group" of cases and that would be killer for the breaker. That's why for my 2 cases this year, I went for 2 different dealers.

 

[ROLLTIDE4LIFE]

I do not know Skrip but he seems to be as cool as anyone else who spends a lot of time on here and I hate to see something upset him.

Tell me this was not your fantasy though. You are not boomo or brentandbecca or 1stclasscardguys. You do not bust major amounts of different products each year and sell 99% as soon as it is sorted. You are a prospector who enjoys his "collection" but also enjoys the satisfaction of turning profits on "smart" buys or "timely" sales. Your hope was that with 8 cases youd have a pleothera of high end colors some to sell and recoup a reasonable amount of the total price paid and some hopefully of the guys you were after in the set if you were to just buy singles.

So possibilities for an optimist (and maybe a realist) are to have fun busting tons of the best prospect product of the year, the likelihood that youd hit something spectacular, and the fact that you would be ok with selling everything you didnt want(and possibly not recouping all your money but close) and having an instastash of the stuff you did.

The break however sucked that is true. The thrill of the busting is directly proportionate to the amount of sick hits. So you were let down in that regard.

You are a cool guy skrip just realize maybe you were overoptimistic and unrealistic in what you wanted from the purchase.

 

[hofmichael]

Has anyone talking about "risk" and "gamble" and "taking a chance", stopped for one second and thought about how ****** up that is?

Buying topps products is not gambling. It is not considered such. If it was, it would be heavily regulated by the government.

According to topps, you are simply buying a product. If you paid $5k for any other product, and the minute you opened it, it was only worth $2k, you wouldn't be pissed?
Of course you would. The HUGE difference is, 99.9% of ALL OTHER CONSUMER PRODUCTS in the world can be returned if you are unhappy with them.
Opened, used briefly, partially eaten, doesn't matter.
Can you return an opened case of topps cards? Hell no you can't!! But why the hell not?

Topps hides behind their "we don't guarantee any future value" ********. In what other industry/product would that be allowed by the consumer??

Answer this for me Mike.

Welcome to the automotive industry.

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

According to topps, you are simply buying a product. If you paid $5k for any other product, and the minute you opened it, it was only worth $2k, you wouldn't be pissed?

It's safe to say that applies to pretty much anything. If I go buy a new television, bring it home, and take it out of the box, it is no longer "worth" what I paid for it. Anytime you buy something and open it, it immediately loses "value". I am hard pressed to think of anything that doesn't. And it's not just according to Topps, it's according to many people in the hobby. You're only buying a product. What else would you consider it?

Of course you would. The HUGE difference is, 99.9% of ALL OTHER CONSUMER PRODUCTS in the world can be returned if you are unhappy with them.
Opened, used briefly, partially eaten, doesn't matter.
Can you return an opened case of topps cards? Hell no you can't!! But why the hell not?

Well, because they don't accept returns? If you know this ahead of time, it probably doesn't make sense to complain about it after opening a product. There are LOTS of other places that don't accept returns. I see it all the time on the internet and in different stores. I do see people that receive damaged product in packs/boxes/cases and they are allowed to exchange them for replacements. Does that not count? Since on the packaging it says that they don't guarantee any future value, how can you honestly expect to return a product based on your "value" out of the lot of cards.

Topps hides behind their "we don't guarantee any future value" ********. In what other industry/product would that be allowed by the consumer??

They probably had to put this on their product because too many grown men complained that they couldn't immediately flip their cards for a profit after opening a case. They don't make cards to help you make money. I'm pretty sure it would be allowed in other industries/products if it was needed however, this seems to be the only one where people cry about how they voluntarily spend their own money. As you said, they make a product and you buy a product. If you're thinking along the lines of an "investment", I'm pretty sure investments are something that you put money into and over time it grows in value, not put $100 into this pack of cards and immediately flip it for $150. Spending the $800 on a case now may translate into a profit in two years due to someone coming out of nowhere and being a huge star. Does that bother you or are you only worried about your immediate return?

 

[nosterbor]

" their adults, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. i say let'em CRASH!"

 

[noaskiecards]

I think what's tough about bowman draft is there is less value in the base chromes/base than in past years.....Because you know that if a guy ever amounts to anything, he will eventually have a bowman chrome autograph, and the base will be worth far less...However with that said, the fact that all the autos have base is positive because it provides a cheaper alternative card for the collector of usually the best players in the set....In the past if you wanted Ryan Zimmerman, Clayton Kershaw, Evan Longoria, Mike Trout, etc, etc, etc, etc, you had to buy the chrome auto...Now you can get a parallel of the non auto all in the same product....Overall though, there are a lot less (20) chrome lots selling for $20+ like there was in the older products...Hopefully it changes in scrip's case!!! Good luck with the auctions scrip, I'll be bidding....

 

[Bob Loblaw]

" their adults, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. i say let'em CRASH!"

Surely, you can't be serious.

 

[noaskiecards]

" their adults, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. i say let'em CRASH!"

Surely, you can't be serious.

I am serious....and don't call me Shirley!

 

[steve-a-reno]

Matt, sorry you got a bad bunch of cases bud. I think you're summing it up perfectly though. People have cashed in on this product for a few years, now prints appear to be up b/c topps has caught on to the popularity and realized there is demand for more. Matter of fact I saw your post about getting that many cases as well as other members 8 cases, 20 cases, 50 cases, wondering to myself wow, how many people have thousands upon thousands of $$$ to "blow" on wax. I say "blow" b/c if when I buy wax I'm automatically under the assumption I'm gonna lose all my money and perhaps get a cool card for my pc or for tradebait to get something for my pc. Pulling enough to pay for the case, and keep some for myself doesn't even enter into the equation. Selling usually doesn't even usually enter my mind. I think this is just another example of how our "hobby" is not really a "hobby" for many people anymore. Perhaps this experience won't make you leave, but just decide on another way to participate.

 

[nosterbor]

" their adults, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. i say let'em CRASH!"

Surely, you can't be serious.

I am serious....and don't call me Shirley!

Thats why i have not done case breaks since 99.

 

[noaskiecards]

" their adults, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. i say let'em CRASH!"

Surely, you can't be serious.

I am serious....and don't call me Shirley!

Thats why i have not done case breaks since 99.

I wasn't supporting your comment, just making a naked gun reference joke!!!

Although everyone is entitled to their opinion, no point of rubbing salt in the wound unless you feel it will help the OP in a productive mannor.

 

[A_Pharis]

Matt, sorry you got a bad bunch of cases bud. I think you're summing it up perfectly though. People have cashed in on this product for a few years, now prints appear to be up b/c topps has caught on to the popularity and realized there is demand for more. Matter of fact I saw your post about getting that many cases as well as other members 8 cases, 20 cases, 50 cases, wondering to myself wow, how many people have thousands upon thousands of $$$ to "blow" on wax. I say "blow" b/c if when I buy wax I'm automatically under the assumption I'm gonna lose all my money and perhaps get a cool card for my pc or for tradebait to get something for my pc. Pulling enough to pay for the case, and keep some for myself doesn't even enter into the equation. Selling usually doesn't even usually enter my mind. I think this is just another example of how our "hobby" is not really a "hobby" for many people anymore. Perhaps this experience won't make you leave, but just decide on another way to participate.

100%.

Don't leave... just make it a hobby, again. Just think of the cards you could ave purchased individually with that money. As soon as you go into the break thinking "I hope to make money" then you're entering a realm outside of "collecting".

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Matt, i think this is a perfect time for you to step back and re-think what brought you to ball cards in the first place.

This is the time of year to be thankful for friends and family, for having a place to live, for having a computer to look at the internet.

Looking at your "signature" leads me to believe that you are all too caught up in the $$$$ aspect of cardboard. Maybe this is the "push" you needed to move into another direction. i do not know how old you are, or how long you've been at it, but maybe its time for a change? it's difficult, sure is.

 

[aarne13]

Matt- that's definitely a kick in the junk. Whether it's a $100 box or several cases the feeling is the same. Kinda shatty to see some of the comments in the thread. It doesn't matter what product you are opening (vintage/prospect) the hope is that you will pull a "big $" card. The thill of pulling something cool is worth the gamble to many. How much fun would it be to strictly buy singles?
The poor collation is a separate matter, Topps should do a much better job. People shouldn't have to sit on cases/boxes to see if their dealer was gifted with a pile of shatty cases.

I don't think the feeling is the same between a $100 box or $5600 on plastic, depending on how deep someone's pockets are. $100 to some may be more devastating than $5600 to others.

Also please don't turn this into the "gamble high" vs the single collector thread. To each their own. I enjoy the search, and find it far more enjoyable than busting wax, again, to each their own.

To blame it on TOPPS is crazy...if you didn't have bad cases, you couldn't have good cases, right? Is it really expected to collate so everyone gets 80% or better?? Is that realistic?? Come on??
Is that the issue here?

I'm not saying that every case should be the same, yielding a high rate of return. There is reasonable expectation that one will receive the stated odds (or close to) if one buys a significant amount of wax. That does not mean that the ROR will necessarily be great. But as shown in previous years there have been "Signs of the Future" cases or cases with "veteran only" parallels, cases that are shorted autos or the chrome autos are replaced by Bowman retail autos. I have also seen breaks where a redonkulous amount of duplicates have been pulled in the same order in every box. How about those retail boxes that are loaded from time to time? The problem is consistency where the odds are not even close to what is stated. If I were to buy a case I wouldn't expect to make my money back, I would consider it sunk cost. Most of those cards would go to my Team Collector (TM) buddies anyhoo. One or two big hits would get me back 10-20%. I would be pissed if my case break yielded 8 Bowman autos and a bunch of veteran parallels.

"Present and Future value" also comes into play, one never knows if those no-name prospects will be red hot in 2-5 years or the prospects that are hot now will flame out in that time. Of course he could have kept the cases sealed and waited for prices to go up. But what would be the fun in that?

 

[fkw]

Im dumb on these new cards...

My question.... why cant you just make "sets" out of these ripped cases?? Do they even have cards with numbers on them and a checklist anymore?

If not, its a flawed product with a certain % being worthless filler then.

In the Gum Days, you could buy a couple cases and put together quite a few complete sets, and then sell/trade the dups, that was the name of the game and the fun. I did it for most of the late 1970s, and made extra $$ to but the older singles I wanted.

Back then... Topps cards were worth MORE the day they were ripped, if you did some work and put together complete sets, and sold them at shows or in The Trader Speak, BHN, or SCD.

 

[Krom]

Im dumb on these new cards...

My question.... why cant you just make "sets" out of these ripped cases?? Do they even have cards with numbers on them and a checklist anymore?

If not, its a flawed product with a certain % being worthless filler then.

In the Gum Days, you could buy a couple cases and put together quite a few complete sets, and then sell/trade the dups, that was the name of the game and the fun. I did it for most of the late 1970s, and made extra $$ to but the older singles I wanted.

Back then... Topps cards were worth MORE the day they were ripped, if you did some work and put together complete sets, and sold them at shows or in The Trader Speak, BHN, or SCD.

It can sometimes be tough to put together complete sets with cards that are so short printed. As has been said before this is an expensive hobby and ripping is a gamble. The other issue with BC is that i have seen prospect cards that ended up being worth a ton more a couple to few years after release. I have always agreed that Chrome is the gift that keeps on giving and even base chrome can pull in some nice coin at the right time and that is all thrown out the window if everything is sold right after release. Tough break.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

not to sound like a farging corksooker or acehole but i fyou are worried about making money out of the case you shouldn't be collecting. i usually bust a couple cases each of bowman, chrome and draft. generally, i sell of my doubles. i am not in it to make money at all. the only reason i sell off my doubles is becuase they are doubles and serve me no purpose. heck it may take me a couple months before i even get around to putting htem up on ebay. i buy my cases for the fun of it, aftrer all it is a HOBBY where GROWN MEN BUY PIECES OF CARDBOARD OF OTHER GROWN MEN. if anyone (not saying you because i know it isnt the case) is in this just to make money, then the person shouldnt be in it at all. personally, i generally hit it good with my cases, i cracked 2 of BC, the first sucked, the second made up for it. i didnt bitch i just organized my goodies and went on about my day and forgot about the whole thing, something i think more of us need to do.

This sounds reasonable, but I'd add here that I'm much more interested in the GAME OF BASEBALL than having pictures of grown men, even though this year's DPP apparently has pictures of 16 year-olds in it which is strange to me.... Also lots of people who buy cards are kids and some are also female

Actually the reason why more men bust now than before is probably because of the gambling aspect and not because of their love for the game, this probably isn't a good thing for the hobby.

 

[nosterbor]

" their adults, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. i say let'em CRASH!"

Surely, you can't be serious.

I am serious....and don't call me Shirley!

Thats why i have not done case breaks since 99.

I wasn't supporting your comment, just making a naked gun reference joke!!!

Although everyone is entitled to their opinion, no point of rubbing salt in the wound unless you feel it will help the OP in a productive mannor.

i know

 

[UpTheAlley]

Welcome to the automotive industry.

or the United States Currency?


skrip- I appreciate you sharing your experience with the board.