One of those experiences that makes me question this Hobby

[predatorkj]

i'm looking for Robbie Erlin - rangers

^^Cool for those that can afford to lose it -Good luck and find me some decent singles

I think a lot of people missed the fact that he wasn't buying for collecting's sake. If he was then yeah...busting that much wax would be dumb. He was looking to flip. So prey tell...how is what he did dumb? And yeah...if people like him did not bust wax...people like us wouldn't be able to buy singles. As far as him being upset...I am sure he knows the risk involved beforehand. Don't we all. But should he feel any better about getting kicked in the nuts? If you buy multiple cases of a release...you stand quite a chance to pull something nice. Hell...you could bust base topps and do pretty good with that many cases. Chances are you'd get something nice. And for that much money...you should too.

 

[predatorkj]

Skrip: Sorry to hear about your cases. I'd say the vast, vast, vast majority of us here on the Boards know exactly how you feel. Whether it's $70 or $7000, the Buyer's Remorse after a bad wax break feels like a rock in your stomach.

We all know breaking wax is a fool's proposition. No matter how smart you are about it, you're almost certainly going to lose money. Playing craps is a better bet, odds wise.

And it is silly to expect sympathy when we all know better than to expect an 85% return on wax. Still, if you can't complain about it here amongst your fellow collectors, prospectors, and addicts, then where can you go? Here's wishing a Superfractor will be in your next case...

+1. Good post. To all of the guys making the negative, ******* posts: WTF?!? How can you be like that to someone that comes in here and complains about getting a swift kick in the sack like that. I mean if that happened to you, I'm sure you would be pissed too. I would have to believe that Skrip knew that a break like this was a possible outcome (I hope so), but that doesn't stop you from hoping to make a somewhat decent return. And when that decent return your hoping for doesn't happen, you're going to get a little upset. The man needed to vent. So stop being asses.

I think it's one thing to say CRAP, I GOT A BAD BREAK...but it's another thing to say "I can't believe it, i lost 50%", and that he has to make payments on a credit card...
I have sympathy for the guy, but i think it's time for a wake-up call. I am glad it happened, because I do care. I think it was a lesson that he needed to learn.
Sure sympathize with him, but to call others ********, because they said that they believe he used bad judgement, is a bit much. It's sound advice....spend only what you can afford to lose...and if you got to put it on plastic, you can't afford it.

I saw the original post after it had been edited, so I didn't see anything about the credit card. And I agree with you that you should only spend what you can afford to lose. I just thought some of the responses were rather harsh. Any of us in that situation would be upset, even if we had lower expectations. It's just basic human emotion. See what Skrip has to say tomorrow after the initial sting of the break has worn off.

I read through the thread, and I saw mostly people sympathizing or offering what they believed to be good advice...I saw one post where someone suggested he was stupid, which i thought was "out of line". I didn't think it was that bad, until chashawk called those offering sound advice (which mimicked my thoughts), ********. That's where I got upset. I think it's great people can sympathize with someone, but I also think there should be an equal amount of advice. IMHO advice is definetely needed here, more so than sympathy, and that was apparent by his surprise by losing 50% and by putting it on plastic. I think gambling is ok where it is done where one can roll with it, but when they can't roll with it, then it's a problem. I have known someone that lost their home and family (granted it was vegas style, but it is the same concept). I am not going to sugarcoat it, but not because I am an ass, because when it starts affecting people's lives, and all they get is sympathy instead of some sound advice, something is wrong. People can act like they are your friends and that they really care, but if they did, then they would offer the same advice. Don't spend what you can't afford to lose...and LEARN IT WELL. It's bad enough with the world and the economy the way it is, than to hear about someone that charges an addiction, in more than likely what was greed in the first place. I don't mean to sound condescending, as I buy many times to try to make money too, and many times things don't go the way I was hoping, and "most" people do it with similar intention, whether it be short term or long term. I think it's a good hobby, provided people understand their limits.

Yeah but who said he couldn't afford it? You are the only one saying that.

 

[predatorkj]

Matt, next time just email the group of us that has a fracking clue what you are talking about. Obviously a lot of people have no clue because they havent been there before.

i think there are alot of old wise men on this board that are a little too wise to put themselves in that position. Once again, you do not need to be a Genius to figure out if your putting out 5k in wax, you are playing with some serious fire.

Doubtful. Very doubtful. He was trying to make money and his venture has failed as of right now. The fact that you and others are saying its dumb for trying says all anyone needs to know. You are not grasping what he is doing and why he is doing it and why he would be upset. Hell...you have HOFAUTOS over here talking about buying singles. That is how we can tell some people don't know what they are talking about.

 

[hofautos]

mike, it was 22 in 06 and 26 in 07. got lucky in 06 with 3 gold longoria and the 1/1 bonds red in 07 + saunders red ref. But even with those, it was sorting all the player lots and jamming ebay with all 165 of them at once in 100+ count lots. That is the beauty of draft, every card sells in lots, even the worst of the worst would get 10 cents a card. cant say that with 90% of the products as the base cards are just firewood. I never figured out exact % of return, was just to lazy, but in the end i knew i had more back than i spent.

THanks for the info...about the other part of the question...if you can make $1 per card on postage and minimum .10 a card that's a good chunk of your money back. And indeed it sounds like you got a few monster hits, for it just to "get ahead", so on the other 40 of the 48 cases were "losers". I know it's a lot of work, and sure many enjoy it. I think it is great that there are people that enjoy gambling, busting cases for us singles collectors, provided they understand that it's gambling.

Just out of curiosity, why did you bust 40 cases in on 6 and 07, and haven't since?

 

[predatorkj]

tldr warning:

I don't mean this to be directed at Skrip per se, some of you "you took a gamble and you lost" guys are being total **********. Skrip is a nice guy here and is one of the very few that is always willing to offer advise and his thoughts and is always a pleasant fellow. He's a valued member in my eyes. He has a valid point about the terrible collation.

That said, I think the main point that has been missed in this thread is that a hobby is just that. A hobby. Once you add profits into a hobby it's not a hobby, it is a business. And that's fine if that is what you after, but I have found that it is impossible to enjoy something that is both a hobby and a business. Buying a prospect product, let's be honest here......everyone that buys it is doing it to sell later. Buying several cases of a product like this is purely a chance at profit. Once that line is crossed, it no longer becomes a hobby, it is a money making venture. A potentially fun one, yes, but again; you cross that line and the enjoyment is gone. Does anyone think Mr. Mint has a collection he enjoys? Nope. He has cards he sells.


Here's a similar story about me. I have collected coins since I knew what money was. When I was a kid, a steel penny or a simple walking liberty coin was awesome. I amassed an awesome collection throughout my 20's. . My brother is a coin dealer and about 5 years ago he stumbled across an estate that had thousands of gem+ mercury dimes, morgan dollars and peace dollars. He cut me in and I was selling and slabbing like crazy. I looked at my own collection more and more like a commodity, not a collection.

I literally stopped buying and selling because I realized that coins didn't bring me enjoyment, I was just looking to "flip" and anything I bought for my permanent coin collection was simply coins to further sell. I sat out of the coin scene for a few years and last year I had to re teach myself current values and such. It's a hobby again, it's not something I look to make a profit on.

I open boxes all the time. When I pull an Ortiz gu from chicle, I trade it, keep it or sell it to make payapl to buy something I want. I don't expect profit. I sell what I don't want and they go to people who do. I hope for the best but expect the expected. I'm fine with that, it's a hobby. Prospecting is fun I guess for those that do it, and good for them if they can retain that "hobby" feel. But ripping lots of cases for the sole reason of future profit isn't a hobby. It's a risky business transaction; like the stock market.

Anyway, again Skrip that wasn't posted about you, just a general post. I think you (skrip) really love baseball and cards and I hope this terrible experience does not drive you away from the hobby, but maybe brings you more into it like I posted above. You are a nice guy around here and some of these dudes are being a-holes. I opened that ss psa7 package from you and I can tell by what you sent you know what you are doing and have a great eye....I hope that part of the hobby brings you joy.

I feel like I channeled my inner predatorj :lol:

.

Impossible...your post is a 1000 words short and you spelled my name wrong. No bueno. :lol:

 

[Guest]

I never will understand why people do this, no matter how many times people attempt to explain it to me.

Essentially people spend thousands of dollars on cases in hopes of getting a card that is a different color, with a lower serial number on it, creating scarcity. They then immediately sell it to someone who feels the player will get 'buzz' someday, and that person spends more money having the card slabbed in the hopes of creating more scarcity. That person then holds the card until the player advances in the minors, gets called up, or plays a major league game without tripping over his shoe laces, at which point the card is sold again (usually to a team collector) who wants a card for their collection.

I don't get it. I don't understand why almost everyone on here does it. I suppose it's 'chasing the dragon' like a drug addict, trying to hit the big score. And it's pretty much the only thing keeping modern card collecting afloat.

For the amount of money some of you state you spend on these cases, you could see a more stable, predictable return on your investments in government bonds, a CD, blue chip stocks, or even a high yield savings account. It's not 'fun,' and you don't get to brag on a message board when you earn, but it does have a proven track record. They're baseball cards, not stocks. Anyone that calls them an investment is talking jibberish to me.

 

[hofautos]

Yeah but who said he couldn't afford it? You are the only one saying that.

Well, perhaps your definition of afford and my definition are different. The thread and every context of what was said tells me he couldn't afford it.
But then again, your definition of most things I see you write about is different than mine....
=======================================
Ian Stewart wrote:
Honestly, you have nobody to blame but yourself. You put it all on a credit card, banking on making it all back by reselling after opening?

Sorry, but that has to be one of the stupider things I have ever heard of.


THank you bud, I appreciate that. Can always count on you for being a huge d-bag. I actually put in on my credit card to earn the cash back. I did have some of the upfront money to pay off my credit card with. Once my sales are done, paying off my credit card won't be a problem. I know multiple large case breakers that put their cases on their credit card so that they aren't fronting all of the money. But I guess you have never heard of that before.

skrip
========================================

 

[hofautos]

Matt, next time just email the group of us that has a fracking clue what you are talking about. Obviously a lot of people have no clue because they havent been there before.

i think there are alot of old wise men on this board that are a little too wise to put themselves in that position. Once again, you do not need to be a Genius to figure out if your putting out 5k in wax, you are playing with some serious fire.

Doubtful. Very doubtful. He was trying to make money and his venture has failed as of right now. The fact that you and others are saying its dumb for trying says all anyone needs to know. You are not grasping what he is doing and why he is doing it and why he would be upset. Hell...you have HOFAUTOS over here talking about buying singles. That is how we can tell some people don't know what they are talking about.

You want to explain that to me, and I will explain what I am saying. I basically said the same thing as many others. Even Gilmo said business don't stay in business busting wax.
If you want to do it for fun, and you can afford it, great. But don't get t'd off when your gamble doesn't pay off. Boomo said he busted 48 cases, 40 of them being busts, and he had to get several good hits and do a lot of work to just get ahead.

 

[Big Mac McGwire]

Matt, next time just email the group of us that has a fracking clue what you are talking about. Obviously a lot of people have no clue because they havent been there before.

i think there are alot of old wise men on this board that are a little too wise to put themselves in that position. Once again, you do not need to be a Genius to figure out if your putting out 5k in wax, you are playing with some serious fire.

Doubtful. Very doubtful. He was trying to make money and his venture has failed as of right now. The fact that you and others are saying its dumb for trying says all anyone needs to know. You are not grasping what he is doing and why he is doing it and why he would be upset. Hell...you have HOFAUTOS over here talking about buying singles. That is how we can tell some people don't know what they are talking about.

i never said he was dumb for doing it. Everyone knows he was buying to flip. The fact is he made a post saying how turned off from the hobby he was after basically shelling out 5k on cases. A lot of peoples responses were basically , that when you put out that much money you are taking a huge risk. Skip knew he was taking a huge risk. But that is an outcome you must be prepared for. And the point in fact is that you are asking for unwanted comments when you make a thread saying how turned off from the hobby you are after you shell out 5 grand in cases and you pull junk and how it makes you turned off from the hobby. I cant blame him, I wouldn't want to look at another card for months if i knew i basically lost an investment with that amount of money. He got criticism and advise as responses. Most people would never go down a road like that. You need balls of steel to do what he did. I know some people on this board have never spent more then 50 bucks on a card. He also mentioned how he put it on a credit card and he still has to pay it off and people were getting on him for that. All we said is that with that amount of money you are taking a huge risk and you better not bitch and moan when shat hits the fan as it did for him. Can't hate on him for trying to make money, but when you put out basically that kind of money you better pray you at least come out even which at the moment he did not.

 

[jcmint]

so so true most people just wanna pile on for no reason whatsoever. Most of them never had the rocks either.

Matt, next time just email the group of us that has a fracking clue what you are talking about. Obviously a lot of people have no clue because they havent been there before.

 

[carlitoson]

I never will understand why people do this, no matter how many times people attempt to explain it to me.

Essentially people spend thousands of dollars on cases in hopes of getting a card that is a different color, with a lower serial number on it, creating scarcity. They then immediately sell it to someone who feels the player will get 'buzz' someday, and that person spends more money having the card slabbed in the hopes of creating more scarcity. That person then holds the card until the player advances in the minors, gets called up, or plays a major league game without tripping over his shoe laces, at which point the card is sold again (usually to a team collector) who wants a card for their collection.

I don't get it. I don't understand why almost everyone on here does it. I suppose it's 'chasing the dragon' like a drug addict, trying to hit the big score. And it's pretty much the only thing keeping modern card collecting afloat.

For the amount of money some of you state you spend on these cases, you could see a more stable, predictable return on your investments in government bonds, a CD, blue chip stocks, or even a high yield savings account. It's not 'fun,' and you don't get to brag on a message board when you earn, but it does have a proven track record. They're baseball cards, not stocks. Anyone that calls them an investment is talking jibberish to me.

Even though I collect "modern" cards, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here. I've read a lot of things on these boards over the years that make me just shake my head and wonder what the person was thinking... I feel there are quite a few good responses in this thread, and sometimes the "best" answer isn't the most popular.

This isn't directed at the original poster, but in general: Any time I read that a person has to put a card purchase on plastic, I cringe. How many times have we seen posts stating, "can someone loan me $xx PayPal?" or "I'm waiting for payday to get the item paid for". If you're that thin on cash, then you're over-extending yourself! They're freakin' baseball cards. Sure, everyone likes to show off their nice cards on these boards (I'm guilty of that too). If you're racking up debt in order to do so however, you need to step back and re-evaluate your "hobby". There are so many better ways to turn a profit. The down side is...as Chris Levy noted...you won't get the adulation from your fellow card geeks. I sometimes wonder if that affirmation from peers is the main factor when folks over-extend themselves.

To the OP, sorry to read about your break. I hope you can easily absorb the (apparent) monetary loss. As others have stated though...don't question the hobby; re-assess your actions within it.

 

[tribefan26]

People that say "Risk" have no idea how to do math. At 8-10 cases, your risk should be negated. Even if you pull a 600 card out of that lot, you're still getting screwed. You should be getting like a 95% shot of getting within 10% of expected value per case.

To repeat, you should not have to buy 50 cases to negate risk. If that's the case, they're screwing the collation.

Topps has never been able to get the collation thing right. They continue to defy the odds on every product they make.

I would LOVE to see the math they're using to collate the cards.

I couldn't agree more - I'm an actuary and have a decent understanding of risk. Strarting witht he SSP blaster boxes of Heritage a few years back I think Topps is not doing as good a job of collating as they once did. A&G this summer was crazy bad.

I think the problem is that they are outsourcing production and packing and are not controlling it as well as they once did - maybe bigger print runs also have something to do with it.

6 cases and $3,500-$4,000 invested should be enough to minimize risk.

We can't forget that they are also sending the good boxes to Beckett.

 

[tribefan26]

dealers that bust wax aren't dealers for very long

+1

 

[bowmanchromeandorr]

not to sound like a farging corksooker or acehole but i fyou are worried about making money out of the case you shouldn't be collecting. i usually bust a couple cases each of bowman, chrome and draft. generally, i sell of my doubles. i am not in it to make money at all. the only reason i sell off my doubles is becuase they are doubles and serve me no purpose. heck it may take me a couple months before i even get around to putting htem up on ebay. i buy my cases for the fun of it, aftrer all it is a HOBBY where GROWN MEN BUY PIECES OF CARDBOARD OF OTHER GROWN MEN. if anyone (not saying you because i know it isnt the case) is in this just to make money, then the person shouldnt be in it at all. personally, i generally hit it good with my cases, i cracked 2 of BC, the first sucked, the second made up for it. i didnt bitch i just organized my goodies and went on about my day and forgot about the whole thing, something i think more of us need to do.

 

[tribefan26]

To blame it on TOPPS is crazy...if you didn't have bad cases, you couldn't have good cases, right? Is it really expected to collate so everyone gets 80% or better?? Is that realistic?? Come on??
Is that the issue here?

There should be something close to the listed odds - BDP has been all over the map.

A good case should be a colored Machado or a Harper AFLAC- a bad case would be the same of a 27 year old "prospect".

We've had numerous reports of cases with 2-3 Gold/Orange autos and many other cases with no colored auto - that is TOPPS Fault!!

 

[Gonzaleznut]

Skrip: Sorry to hear about your cases. I'd say the vast, vast, vast majority of us here on the Boards know exactly how you feel. Whether it's $70 or $7000, the Buyer's Remorse after a bad wax break feels like a rock in your stomach.

We all know breaking wax is a fool's proposition. No matter how smart you are about it, you're almost certainly going to lose money. Playing craps is a better bet, odds wise.

And it is silly to expect sympathy when we all know better than to expect an 85% return on wax. Still, if you can't complain about it here amongst your fellow collectors, prospectors, and addicts, then where can you go? Here's wishing a Superfractor will be in your next case...

+1. Good post. To all of the guys making the negative, ******* posts: WTF?!? How can you be like that to someone that comes in here and complains about getting a swift kick in the sack like that. I mean if that happened to you, I'm sure you would be pissed too. I would have to believe that Skrip knew that a break like this was a possible outcome (I hope so), but that doesn't stop you from hoping to make a somewhat decent return. And when that decent return your hoping for doesn't happen, you're going to get a little upset. The man needed to vent. So stop being asses.

"If that happened to me??"

That is the reason for the D.B posts from me and other guys...IT WOULDN'T HAPPEN TO ME!! I AM NOT THAT STUPID!!

 

[ChasHawk]

Has anyone talking about "risk" and "gamble" and "taking a chance", stopped for one second and thought about how ****** up that is?

Buying topps products is not gambling. It is not considered such. If it was, it would be heavily regulated by the government.

According to topps, you are simply buying a product. If you paid $5k for any other product, and the minute you opened it, it was only worth $2k, you wouldn't be pissed?

Of course you would. The HUGE difference is, 99.9% of ALL OTHER CONSUMER PRODUCTS in the world can be returned if you are unhappy with them.
Opened, used briefly, partially eaten, doesn't matter.
Can you return an opened case of topps cards? Hell no you can't!! But why the hell not?

Topps hides behind their "we don't guarantee any future value" ********. In what other industry/product would that be allowed by the consumer??

Answer this for me Mike.

 

[bballcardkid]

guys, are this years player lots worse than previous years?
i ripped 20+ cases in 06 and 07 and came out ahead both times
do to the sales of the player lots. sucks to sort them all, but they
are the bread and butter in getting cash back. I have no clue on anyone
this year, are there no good players that will net 1.00 per in lots?

That's what happens when the pool or prospects is spread between 3 Chrome products rather than 2. The changes to the base Bowman, adding chrome, in 2008 are starting to catch up IMO. Way too many filler Chromes to fullfil checklist needs.

 

[manningmurphyfan]

Sorry to hear about your breaks but I've had similar experiences when I busted multiple cases of 05 BCDP and 07 BCDP (ripped 8 and sold 12). The only thing that saved me in both years was I sat on sealed cases because I thought both products were good and eventually flipped the cases. May be something to try out if you do it again.

I was also pretty lazy about listing singles so I'm still sitting on lots of pretty much all players including parallels. I'm sure I could've made money on some of the scrubs but it paid off well when the bigger players got hot like Heyward this year.

I guess the biggest thing is to use money you have and not let anything sit on a credit card. It sounds like you have that part covered by reading your posts, but not sure if others do that. Just additional money lost when you look at the interest rack up.

I enjoyed busting wax but over the last couple years but have really pulled back on what I buy and that is pretty much things I know I'll keep. Even the Jeff Francoeur collection which was worse than any wax I busted ::facepalm:: .

 

[mchenrycards]

I read the first two pages and and just went to the end of the thread because I could see how the thread was going.

The title of this thread was "One of those experiences that makes me question this Hobby"

Not to be an ass but you might want to question yourself and not the hobby, As you mentioned this is a hobby and the definition of a hobby is:

"an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation"

Hobbies are not designed to make money but to provide relation and something to do to distract you from the normal day to day life. While yes, it hurts to get kicked in the junk when a break doesnt go your way but I dont think you should question the hobby because of a bad break. If you want absolutes in this hobby go with cards that have a proven record in terms of value. Graded vintage is a good place to start and will provide opportunity to potentially make some money down the road. I can only think how much QUALITY vintage could have been purchased with 5K instead of blowing it on boxes that had a huge potential for new returns. A mantle rookie, A T206 Cobb and many other excellent vintage options are available out there for the amount of money blown on this box break. Everyone knows wax is a crap shoot and to blow 5k on wax and then complain about losing money is absurd. You invest in stocks and bonds and real estate but baseball cards are a hobby. Making money should be just icing on the cake when collecting cards and if money isnt made, questioning the hobby is not the thing you should be questioning.