Razor Rookie Retro Checklist is live

[Sean_C]

It's not a question of trying to screw anyone over. I'd certainly rather pull a 41 Playball Williams than almost any of the other cards they have on the checklist. It's a question of recognition and honesty. First they screw up by buying the wrong card, then they "screw up" and insert it into packs. C'mon...

Sean, who cares about the '41 Playball Williams? It's still a valuable card, so I doubt Brian intentionally did it to screw over anyone.

Now, if a Pujols BC rookie was promised and a 2003 BC Pujols 'accidentally' made it in instead, that would be cause to gripe

 

[Wes]

It's not a question of trying to screw anyone over. I'd certainly rather pull a 41 Playball Williams than almost any of the other cards they have on the checklist. It's a question of recognition and honesty. First they screw up by buying the wrong card, then they "screw up" and insert it into packs. C'mon...

Sean, who cares about the '41 Playball Williams? It's still a valuable card, so I doubt Brian intentionally did it to screw over anyone.

Now, if a Pujols BC rookie was promised and a 2003 BC Pujols 'accidentally' made it in instead, that would be cause to gripe

 

[scotty21690]

Yeah I was going to ask about the 41 Teddy Play Ball as well, because I assume this product was all RC cards. It's a great card and all but I would rather have a PSA 1 39 PB than the PSA 4 41 PB. Not a huge deal, but still.

 

[morgoth]

In actuality the 1941 is his most popular pre war card but the 1939 PB RC has finally started to gain in value like should. Its ugly but a RC.

However in super high grade (not the ones offered by Razor) the margins of difference between the two cards get much closer.

1939 PB- PSA 4 VCP Average- $835
1941 PB- PSA 4 VCP Average- $513
% Difference- 163%

1939 PB- PSA 7 VCP Average-$2,257
1941 PB- PSA 7 VCP Average-$1,695
% Difference- 133%

1939 PB- PSA 8 VCP Average-$4,873
1941 PB- PSA 8 VCP Average-$4,214
% Difference- 116%

It looks like there has only been 1 9 of each sold in recent times so the data isn't really that good to look at.

 

[Casebusters]

[quote="Jeff N.":u5dsu2rl]

[quote="Jeff N.":u5dsu2rl]

[quote="Tomlinson21RB":u5dsu2rl][quote="BowmanChromeAddict":u5dsu2rl]I wasn't in the chat the whole time yesterday, but the most important point that I saw was that the production costs are 80% of wholesale. Because in general we're talking about cards bought at or near market value, versus true production like any new product made by Topps, UD, Panini, the true value of the product is really already determined. If you were able to purchase every pack, you'd lose more than 20% of your money, 1) we don't buy at wholesale 2) factor in that part of his 80% production costs are the packaging which has no value.

Still, all that being said, this is a lottery ticket and if you like to gamble, you've found your product. Yes, I've got two packs in Andrew's break, so I'm in...though its debatable whether that $445 would have been better spent on Black on the Roulette table (credit goes to Lisu for that reference).

I feel like 80% return is better than any box I've ever opened.

Not 80% return, more like 70%, but that's if you were buying the entire production run. Clearly it was a hypothetical scenario. That being said, I don't think you'd lose 20-30% if you bought an entire production run of Bowman Chrome...a hypothetical that can't be proved out. But I'm comparing Apples to Oranges here, they are completely different beasts.

Packaging is 2.5% of production costs... so ROI at factory cost (the price I sold it for) is 77.5%.
If you factor the 10% markup Jeff refers to, the return is 70%+.
BG

Do you mind mentioning what factory cost was? If not, I understand.

Thanks, Brian.

Not allowed to, but at $225, they are making a VERY modest markup
BG[/quote:u5dsu2rl]

It's your company. You can do whatever you want! You can tell us, it's okay, we won't tell anyone else. [/quote:u5dsu2rl]

Jeff,
What do you think wholesale should be if someone is selling for $225?[/quote:u5dsu2rl]

I'm an end level consumer. I don't know what "wholesale" is.

I know that (at least, I THINK that) Topps is direct $48 a box -- Topps, Bowman, Chrome, whatever, it's $48 a box. It's usually sold at $60-65 before things get hot. So, a 25% markup is the norm. If that's the case, then you can do your own math here.

Bottom line is that (right now) I can't get it wholesale, and I'm not going to begrudge anyone from making a profit. I'm not sure if you're trying to bait me into an argument, but I'm not going to bite.[/quote:u5dsu2rl]
Wasn't trying to bait you into an argument,
I just don't wanna come out and say what it cost (I might get my head bit off).
I was gonna let you know how close you were.. But going by your markup, Its not even close to that much..

 

[gogosox40]

In actuality the 1941 is his most popular pre war card but the 1939 PB RC has finally started to gain in value like should. Its ugly but a RC.

However in super high grade (not the ones offered by Razor) the margins of difference between the two cards get much closer.

1939 PB- PSA 4 VCP Average- $835
1941 PB- PSA 4 VCP Average- $513
% Difference- 163%

1939 PB- PSA 7 VCP Average-$2,257
1941 PB- PSA 7 VCP Average-$1,695
% Difference- 133%

1939 PB- PSA 8 VCP Average-$4,873
1941 PB- PSA 8 VCP Average-$4,214
% Difference- 116%

It looks like there has only been 1 9 of each sold in recent times so the data isn't really that good to look at.

Are you sure you did your math right?
I would double check that

 

[subpop77]

Looks pretty good! Couple of questions that I know some people could elaborate on or that some ********** will chime in on ::facepalm:: I didn't see a Bo Jackson Rookie Baseball or football. Again another product without Ryan Sweeney either ? Will we get to see the packaging for them?
Thanks, subpop77

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

Looks pretty good! Couple of questions that I know some people could elaborate on or that some ********** will chime in on ::facepalm:: I didn't see a Bo Jackson Rookie Baseball or football. Again another product without Ryan Sweeney either ? Will we get to see the packaging for them?
Thanks, subpop77

There isn't a Ryan Sweeney card that sells for what this product wholesales for. Well, maybe his 2005 Superfractor could sniff $300...but only on a good day.

That said, Ryan is a great kid...but not of the caliber that this set seems to try to deliver.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

[quote="Jeff N.":11w0g1bb]

[quote="Jeff N.":11w0g1bb]

[quote="BowmanChromeAddict":11w0g1bb][quote="Tomlinson21RB":11w0g1bb][quote="BowmanChromeAddict":11w0g1bb]I wasn't in the chat the whole time yesterday, but the most important point that I saw was that the production costs are 80% of wholesale. Because in general we're talking about cards bought at or near market value, versus true production like any new product made by Topps, UD, Panini, the true value of the product is really already determined. If you were able to purchase every pack, you'd lose more than 20% of your money, 1) we don't buy at wholesale 2) factor in that part of his 80% production costs are the packaging which has no value.

Still, all that being said, this is a lottery ticket and if you like to gamble, you've found your product. Yes, I've got two packs in Andrew's break, so I'm in...though its debatable whether that $445 would have been better spent on Black on the Roulette table (credit goes to Lisu for that reference).

I feel like 80% return is better than any box I've ever opened.

Not 80% return, more like 70%, but that's if you were buying the entire production run. Clearly it was a hypothetical scenario. That being said, I don't think you'd lose 20-30% if you bought an entire production run of Bowman Chrome...a hypothetical that can't be proved out. But I'm comparing Apples to Oranges here, they are completely different beasts.

Packaging is 2.5% of production costs... so ROI at factory cost (the price I sold it for) is 77.5%.
If you factor the 10% markup Jeff refers to, the return is 70%+.
BG

Do you mind mentioning what factory cost was? If not, I understand.

Thanks, Brian.

Not allowed to, but at $225, they are making a VERY modest markup
BG[/quote:11w0g1bb]

It's your company. You can do whatever you want! You can tell us, it's okay, we won't tell anyone else. [/quote:11w0g1bb]

Jeff,
What do you think wholesale should be if someone is selling for $225?[/quote:11w0g1bb]

I'm an end level consumer. I don't know what "wholesale" is.

I know that (at least, I THINK that) Topps is direct $48 a box -- Topps, Bowman, Chrome, whatever, it's $48 a box. It's usually sold at $60-65 before things get hot. So, a 25% markup is the norm. If that's the case, then you can do your own math here.

Bottom line is that (right now) I can't get it wholesale, and I'm not going to begrudge anyone from making a profit. I'm not sure if you're trying to bait me into an argument, but I'm not going to bite.[/quote:11w0g1bb]
Wasn't trying to bait you into an argument,
I just don't wanna come out and say what it cost (I might get my head bit off).
I was gonna let you know how close you were.. But going by your markup, Its not even close to that much..[/quote:11w0g1bb]

Direct cost of $200 per?

 

[Leaf]

[quote="Jeff N.":3jorqj9u]

[quote="Jeff N.":3jorqj9u]

[quote="Jeff N.":3jorqj9u]

[quote="BowmanChromeAddict":3jorqj9u][quote="Tomlinson21RB":3jorqj9u][quote="BowmanChromeAddict":3jorqj9u]I wasn't in the chat the whole time yesterday, but the most important point that I saw was that the production costs are 80% of wholesale. Because in general we're talking about cards bought at or near market value, versus true production like any new product made by Topps, UD, Panini, the true value of the product is really already determined. If you were able to purchase every pack, you'd lose more than 20% of your money, 1) we don't buy at wholesale 2) factor in that part of his 80% production costs are the packaging which has no value.

Still, all that being said, this is a lottery ticket and if you like to gamble, you've found your product. Yes, I've got two packs in Andrew's break, so I'm in...though its debatable whether that $445 would have been better spent on Black on the Roulette table (credit goes to Lisu for that reference).

I feel like 80% return is better than any box I've ever opened.

Not 80% return, more like 70%, but that's if you were buying the entire production run. Clearly it was a hypothetical scenario. That being said, I don't think you'd lose 20-30% if you bought an entire production run of Bowman Chrome...a hypothetical that can't be proved out. But I'm comparing Apples to Oranges here, they are completely different beasts.

Packaging is 2.5% of production costs... so ROI at factory cost (the price I sold it for) is 77.5%.
If you factor the 10% markup Jeff refers to, the return is 70%+.
BG

Do you mind mentioning what factory cost was? If not, I understand.

Thanks, Brian.

Not allowed to, but at $225, they are making a VERY modest markup
BG[/quote:3jorqj9u]

It's your company. You can do whatever you want! You can tell us, it's okay, we won't tell anyone else. [/quote:3jorqj9u]

Jeff,
What do you think wholesale should be if someone is selling for $225?[/quote:3jorqj9u]

I'm an end level consumer. I don't know what "wholesale" is.

I know that (at least, I THINK that) Topps is direct $48 a box -- Topps, Bowman, Chrome, whatever, it's $48 a box. It's usually sold at $60-65 before things get hot. So, a 25% markup is the norm. If that's the case, then you can do your own math here.

Bottom line is that (right now) I can't get it wholesale, and I'm not going to begrudge anyone from making a profit. I'm not sure if you're trying to bait me into an argument, but I'm not going to bite.[/quote:3jorqj9u]
Wasn't trying to bait you into an argument,
I just don't wanna come out and say what it cost (I might get my head bit off).
I was gonna let you know how close you were.. But going by your markup, Its not even close to that much..[/quote:3jorqj9u]

Direct cost of $200 per?[/quote:3jorqj9u]

Cannot confirm, but you are VERY astute above!
BG

 

[Leaf]

While waiting for Brian to realize that PMing me is pointless...

Honestly, I (who have been in this business for over 20 years as a dealer) accidently bought this as a rookie (my error). I asked my guys to pull it off checklist and remove it and they didnt. Ill take the blame on this one. As far as not pulling it after I saw it wasnt removed, Ill stand behind adding value for consumers anyday of the week.

As far as the other errors, they are proofing errors. I bought every single card myself and I will stand behind the fact that I know what is in the product.

Bottom line, the order form says rookie (or rookie era) cards. This includes 92 stadium Favre (which trades like a rookie) and a multitude of 2nd year cards that trade like rookies and "technically" the Williams (1941 is still rookie era "techinically", although I am not hiding behind that).

Sean, I know you are not a fan of these sorts of products, or any of my products at that.
However, I respect your opinion and look forward to continuing to hear them as time rolls on.
I appreciate your candor and cannot wait for the day I make a product you respect, appreciate or cannot find fault with.
Until then, well be a young manufacturer learning from our mistakes, listening to our customers and providing VERY solid values in all the products we bring to market.

Here's to trying to win our non-fans over. Its a long road, but we are in this industry to stay and are committed to making solid long term decisions.
Thanks for all the supporting emails weve received... They have not gone unnoticed and it makes me proud to be part of this community.
BG

 

[Wes]

Yeah I was going to ask about the 41 Teddy Play Ball as well, because I assume this product was all RC cards. It's a great card and all but I would rather have a PSA 1 39 PB than the PSA 4 41 PB. Not a huge deal, but still.

My pet peeve. RC = Rookie Card

So you're basically saying "Rookie Card Cards"

*tears hair out*

Okay sorry, back to the regularly scheduled Razor bashing thread.

 

[Guest]

Jumping into an argument, for which I am sure to be flamed, all I can say regarding the inclusion of the 1941 Play Ball Ted Williams is that I have been collecting cards issued before the second World War for half my life, and in all the people I have had the fortune of speaking with and sharing my hobby with who focus on pre-war cards ... none of them get into the issue of "rookie cards."

Before the war companies would come and go, and there were no regular sets people could count on each year. There were regional issues. There were unlicensed issues. There's just all sorts of nonsense going on that pre-war collectors would go nuts trying to identify and collect true rookie cards. If a true definition of a "rookie" is first card issued, then you're going to find a list of oddball cards, cabinet cards, and cards issued only in Toledo, OH one week a year as the pre-war HOF checklist.

The '41 Play Ball Ted Williams is a great card. The '41 Play Ball set is iconic. Anyone who pulls a '41 Play Ball Williams and says, "It's not a rookie" should get out of the hobby. Seriously.

 

[Jaypers]

I appreciate your candor and cannot wait for the day I make a product you respect, appreciate or cannot find fault with.

How old do you plan to live to be?

 

[Leaf]

I appreciate your candor and cannot wait for the day I make a product you respect, appreciate or cannot find fault with.

How old do you plan to live to be?

Probably not old enough. However, I love this industry and will die trying.
BG

 

[Halonut]

Yeah I was going to ask about the 41 Teddy Play Ball as well, because I assume this product was all RC cards. It's a great card and all but I would rather have a PSA 1 39 PB than the PSA 4 41 PB. Not a huge deal, but still.

My pet peeve. RC = Rookie Card

So you're basically saying "Rookie Card Cards"

*tears hair out*

Okay sorry, back to the regularly scheduled Razor bashing thread.

[youtube:2qnl38ik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8U8LPiWXuU[/youtube:2qnl38ik]

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Yeah I was going to ask about the 41 Teddy Play Ball as well, because I assume this product was all RC cards. It's a great card and all but I would rather have a PSA 1 39 PB than the PSA 4 41 PB. Not a huge deal, but still.

My pet peeve. RC = Rookie Card

So you're basically saying "Rookie Card Cards"

*tears hair out*

Okay sorry, back to the regularly scheduled Razor bashing thread.

im the same way with people that say rbi'S

Runs Batted In's? really?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Yeah I was going to ask about the 41 Teddy Play Ball as well, because I assume this product was all RC cards. It's a great card and all but I would rather have a PSA 1 39 PB than the PSA 4 41 PB. Not a huge deal, but still.

My pet peeve. RC = Rookie Card

So you're basically saying "Rookie Card Cards"

*tears hair out*

Okay sorry, back to the regularly scheduled Razor bashing thread.

I don't think anyone other than Sean Christian Wegman is bashing Razor.

I'm certainly not.

I suspect that the Razor/Leaf roller coaster will turn after the product is released and some not so good cards come to light.

I'd be thrilled with a '41 Play Ball Williams.

 

[Leaf]

Yeah I was going to ask about the 41 Teddy Play Ball as well, because I assume this product was all RC cards. It's a great card and all but I would rather have a PSA 1 39 PB than the PSA 4 41 PB. Not a huge deal, but still.

My pet peeve. RC = Rookie Card

So you're basically saying "Rookie Card Cards"

*tears hair out*

Okay sorry, back to the regularly scheduled Razor bashing thread.

I don't think anyone other than Sean Christian Wegman is bashing Razor.

I'm certainly not.

I suspect that the Razor/Leaf roller coaster will turn after the product is released and some not so good cards come to light.

I'd be thrilled with a '41 Play Ball Williams.

Jeff,
All the cards are on the checklist. I dont expect to see any cards come to light that we havent already announced.
BG

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Yeah I was going to ask about the 41 Teddy Play Ball as well, because I assume this product was all RC cards. It's a great card and all but I would rather have a PSA 1 39 PB than the PSA 4 41 PB. Not a huge deal, but still.

My pet peeve. RC = Rookie Card

So you're basically saying "Rookie Card Cards"

*tears hair out*

Okay sorry, back to the regularly scheduled Razor bashing thread.

I don't think anyone other than Sean Christian Wegman is bashing Razor.

I'm certainly not.

I suspect that the Razor/Leaf roller coaster will turn after the product is released and some not so good cards come to light.

I'd be thrilled with a '41 Play Ball Williams.

Jeff,
All the cards are on the checklist. I dont expect to see any cards come to light that we havent already announced.
BG

unless some moron plays switch-a-roo with whats in the pack