So is Razor done with Baseball?

[cgilmo]

Matusz stuff didn't spike

 

[justinmandawg]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

 

[mredsox89]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

There is no question they can become an awesome company, or at least put out some awesome products. I feel that their metal product, aside from way of release, was a fantastic product. If they put out a similar product but packed out and with slightly better condition, i could see it being a big hit.

There is no doubt that they made some serious mistakes, and Brian has admitted that. Razor hasn't had the chance to improve yet.

 

[Casey2884]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

There is no question they can become an awesome company, or at least put out some awesome products. I feel that their metal product, aside from way of release, was a fantastic product. If they put out a similar product but packed out and with slightly better condition, i could see it being a big hit.

There is no doubt that they made some serious mistakes, and Brian has admitted that. Razor hasn't had the chance to improve yet.

+1 for each of you

 

[topprospectalert]

Matusz stuff didn't spike

Razor stuff didn't, USA stuff was up 35-50%. Settled back down now.

 

[kentuckyderby]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

Justin,
I am curious to know your reasoning here. What exactly makes you think Razor could be something pretty awesome? I can see if people still think Razor will hang in there but what about Razor makes you think that it will blossom into "something pretty awesome?" Don't see this as an attack on your personally or razor because it isn't. I would like to see your reasoning. I would have thought that the Oval Office disaster would have been enough for you to not see $$$ potential in Razor.
I am not doubting that Razor can succeed. It is the combination of the Oval Office financial disaster by many here at FCB and the iffy success of Razor in the secondary market that makes me curious to see why you see big big things.

Thanks for any clarification

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

Whether or not their is potential with any future Razor baseball products, one thing is certain, Razor needs to work on marketing before anything else.

Hands down, the lack of marketing their brand is one of the worst offenses they have been guilty of since they entered the baseball card world. And considering they have gone into silent, non-existent mode, it's certainly not boding well.

Oh, and for anyone bringing up the past...you'll remember that in 1989, every single dealer and collector in America knew about Upper Deck before 1989 Upper Deck baseball was released...all without the help of such modern tools like the internets, Tweeter, Faceplace and bloogs.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

Seriously? You're comparing Fleer and Donruss' 1981 product to Razor's 2008 product? Two HUGE differences.

1. TECHNOLOGY! There is 27 years difference in technology between Fleer and Donruss' 1981 product and Razor's 2008 product. Before F&D, it was JUST Topps, and there were no technological advances in baseball cards, unless you include a piece of gum with the packs. 27 years later, you have autos, game used, foil, die cutting, holographs, all kinds of neat stuff.

2. TIME! Fleer and Donruss' 1981 product was rushed, to say the least, after the 1980 Fleer monopoly lawsuit brought against Topps proved victorious, opening the door to other card companies. Fleer's and Donruss' backs were against the wall in terms of getting a product out, hence the errors and poor photography. As an aside, Topps won the case on appeal, limiting Fleer's and Donruss' manufacture of gum to just 1981, and bringing us stickers in 1982 Fleer and puzzle pieces in 1982 Donruss. I have no excuse for their 1982 products. However, Razor has had years to plan these products, yet still flew by the seat of their pants for Letterman and Metal. Poor planning. Poor management.

Further, Razor has had the benefits of advertising and this relatively successful message board for advertising. I don't know what they sent to hobby stores, but I'm sure it wasn't much. They could have gotten their name out in so many different ways, but failed. When I first came to the board and saw people talking about Razor, I decided to look into the product and check out their website. Problem? The website had barely any information on it whatsoever. That's what told me that this manufacturer wasn't "ready for prime time" and wasn't one that I wanted to invest in.

In contrast, there weren't many hobby stores to begin with back in 1981. I believe Donruss and Fleer used the backs of comic books for advertising. They did what they could. And still sold well.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

There is no question they can become an awesome company, or at least put out some awesome products. I feel that their metal product, aside from way of release, was a fantastic product. If they put out a similar product but packed out and with slightly better condition, i could see it being a big hit.

There is no doubt that they made some serious mistakes, and Brian has admitted that. Razor hasn't had the chance to improve yet.

There's only one chance to make a first impression.

 

[Lars]

I don't know if it would be successful, but maybe a retail version of Razor's products would have generated some interest for the casual baseball card collector.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I don't know if it would be successful, but maybe a retail version of Razor's products would have generated some interest for the casual baseball card collector.

The casual baseball card collector doesn't know a single player on Razor's checklist. I can't see a casual collector buying that product. It, like BDP and EEE, is niche product.

 

[justinmandawg]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

Justin,
I am curious to know your reasoning here. What exactly makes you think Razor could be something pretty awesome? I can see if people still think Razor will hang in there but what about Razor makes you think that it will blossom into "something pretty awesome?" Don't see this as an attack on your personally or razor because it isn't. I would like to see your reasoning. I would have thought that the Oval Office disaster would have been enough for you to not see $$$ potential in Razor.
I am not doubting that Razor can succeed. It is the combination of the Oval Office financial disaster by many here at FCB and the iffy success of Razor in the secondary market that makes me curious to see why you see big big things.

Thanks for any clarification

The "Oval Office disaster" has less to do with the price of the product as it left Razor and more to do with the price of the product as we ended up purchasing it. At cost from Razor we'd have been ahead. At the price we were buying (roughly 2x cost) it was a suckers bet. We were counting on opening enough packs to hit something huge and that was it. The Oval Office disaster financially, at least on my part was caused by people simply not paying for their spots and my covering the spots.

A five count lot of oval office cards sold last week for 9500.00. The market was flooded. If anything we should have waited and sold them at a later date.

I think they can compete and become a recognized name if for no other reason is that Brian has made a lot of mistakes, yet is not willing to give up. They are coming up with some designs that I like. They will also discontinue what has shown to be unsuccessful. Right now, I think that Brian is trying to fly before he's gotten crawling down.

If they continue to sign players and do some hardcore tweaking of their marketing and who they are aiming at, the designs will be there. I've been up for 30 hours right now so my thoughts are straying. I'll finish this later.

 

[justinmandawg]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

There is no question they can become an awesome company, or at least put out some awesome products. I feel that their metal product, aside from way of release, was a fantastic product. If they put out a similar product but packed out and with slightly better condition, i could see it being a big hit.

There is no doubt that they made some serious mistakes, and Brian has admitted that. Razor hasn't had the chance to improve yet.

There's only one chance to make a first impression.

All the errors in early Donruss and Fleer, the low quality of the product, the crappy photography, and the range of sizing in their early products all agree with you.

 

[justinmandawg]

I don't know if it would be successful, but maybe a retail version of Razor's products would have generated some interest for the casual baseball card collector.

The casual baseball card collector doesn't know a single player on Razor's checklist. I can't see a casual collector buying that product. It, like BDP and EEE, is niche product.

And we all know that BDP and EEE don't sell well. More and more people are paying attention to milb, ncaa, and high school baseball.

 

[cgilmo]

anyone notice the new website they have up?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

There is no question they can become an awesome company, or at least put out some awesome products. I feel that their metal product, aside from way of release, was a fantastic product. If they put out a similar product but packed out and with slightly better condition, i could see it being a big hit.

There is no doubt that they made some serious mistakes, and Brian has admitted that. Razor hasn't had the chance to improve yet.

There's only one chance to make a first impression.

All the errors in early Donruss and Fleer, the low quality of the product, the crappy photography, and the range of sizing in their early products all agree with you.

I see you completely ignored the previous post I made with Donruss and Fleer. I see how you make your points, and ignore those that shoot down your theories.

Yes, there is only one chance to make a first impression. Let me add on to that.

In 1982, your baseball card choices were Topps' 792 card set ... or, Donruss or Fleer. Once you collected the 82T set, you were done, unless you wanted to give those other brands one more try.

In 2008 and 2009, you have literally 60-80 choices of sets to buy, including Tristar and Just. There's no reason to give Razor another chance when there are so many other sets competing for your collector dollar.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I don't know if it would be successful, but maybe a retail version of Razor's products would have generated some interest for the casual baseball card collector.

The casual baseball card collector doesn't know a single player on Razor's checklist. I can't see a casual collector buying that product. It, like BDP and EEE, is niche product.

And we all know that BDP and EEE don't sell well. More and more people are paying attention to milb, ncaa, and high school baseball.

The casual collector isn't.

The casual collector has never heard of Razor, and if they ARE paying attention to minor league ball or NCAA ball (no casual collector is paying attention to high school ball. Most prospectors aren't paying attention to high school ball), they're going to buy BDP or EEE, because BDP has a pedigree back to 2000 and EEE has one back to 2004; Bowman has a pedigree back to '48 and Donruss to '81. The casual collector has never heard of Razor and will immediately equate it with the garbage that Just and Tristar puts out.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

anyone notice the new website they have up?

Nope.

 

[Wes]

anyone notice the new website they have up?

It's nice but they definitely should have paid the hosting and redirect fees for the old site.

 

[justinmandawg]

[quote="Jeff N.":25cdayyu]

Fleer and Donruss put out crappy products in 1981. Razor is far ahead of how those companies did after one year, at least in my opinion. I still think it could be something pretty awesome.

There is no question they can become an awesome company, or at least put out some awesome products. I feel that their metal product, aside from way of release, was a fantastic product. If they put out a similar product but packed out and with slightly better condition, i could see it being a big hit.

There is no doubt that they made some serious mistakes, and Brian has admitted that. Razor hasn't had the chance to improve yet.

There's only one chance to make a first impression.

All the errors in early Donruss and Fleer, the low quality of the product, the crappy photography, and the range of sizing in their early products all agree with you.

I see you completely ignored the previous post I made with Donruss and Fleer. I see how you make your points, and ignore those that shoot down your theories.

Yes, there is only one chance to make a first impression. Let me add on to that.

In 1982, your baseball card choices were Topps' 792 card set ... or, Donruss or Fleer. Once you collected the 82T set, you were done, unless you wanted to give those other brands one more try.

In 2008 and 2009, you have literally 60-80 choices of sets to buy, including Tristar and Just. There's no reason to give Razor another chance when there are so many other sets competing for your collector dollar.[/quote:25cdayyu]

I had been up for 30 hours at the time. I responded to one longer post then some of the short ones. I have an opinion on why I think that Razor will be a solid company and put out products that I and other people I like. So really, I'm not trying to argue. I'm not trying win. I am not worried about you shooting holes in any of my theories, because they are baseball cards and this isn't the search for who really shot JFK.

Just because I like something, and yes I said in my original post that it was an opinion and never said my statements are fact, doesn't mean anything. You try to lawyer everyone, and argue with them. So here you go, you win. I like their products and will hope that things move in a more positive direction. Every company has massive complaints from the majority here. You would think that with all the design and other complaints on this board that people would either quit collecting or get into design.