The final word on the 2010 Bowman Wrapper Redemption

[matfanofold]

"Dear Valued customer, we at Topps have decided that your order of 10 cases is simply too much. We have down graded you to 2 cases. It's our belief that you can not sell 10 cases and the demand your customers have are inaccurate. Please let those know who want to purchase this product that it's our intention to more accurately guage your real demand and as such re evaluate what your customers really want.

Further more, in the future, please note that we will no longer accept pre orders or orders of any kind. Rather, we will inform you as to what we feel you should be able to sell and provide accordingly. We have listened to those who believe we have a responsability akin to a bartender, and will do our best from here on out to make sure that you do not go over your limit.

Best regards, [strike:1i181sjj]BG[/strike:1i181sjj] Topps."

LOL... How about:

Dear Valued customer,

We recently solicited orders for 2010 Bowman Chrome Baseball (releasing in November). Unfortunately, demand for this item far exceededthe scheduled print run for this item. Therefore, we unfortunately are reducing all orders by 33% in an effort to fairly allocate the print run.

As a collectible company, we hope you can appreciate our commitment to producing limited edition collectibles designed to deliver bith enjoyment and long term value. Thank you for your support.

Best regards, Topps

***

Despite the blatant silliness of your post, you do realize that Topps allocates items (cuts orders) all the time and reduces distirbutor orders all the time (for example, MMA Knockout releasing in December).
Why should this have been different?

I dont expect collectors to understand or appreciate the devastation created by these 3-4 lemon products. It doesnt change the reality that nearly $4-5 million dollars will be lost by dealers and dsitributors on these 4 releases. This is devastating. It is easy to crack jokes behind a computer or expect dealers to suck it up, but delaers cannot make the $$$ necessary to take these sorts of hits. My apologies for the passion defending these dealers the slightest bit.

BG

Your right, it was blatently silly. And aside from different wording, it was all but identical as your rendition. However, you put emphasis on 'solicitation' which I believe reality would not. And I believe you underestimate the intelligence of the 'collector' and over estimate the 'devastation' of said lemons as far as the hobby is concerend. Instead of complaining about how dealers can not afford to take these kind of hits, perhaps you should be concerned with the more prevelent problem that is dealers can not afford to take the greedy gamble they did, as it can have adverse effects on the hobby as a whole.

And unfortunately, this is no laughing matter. The greed of those looking to score big has now all but ruined the hobby at the moment for some.

 

[bigalbert]

Also, its not about if Topps made more money. It is about the fact they have financially strangled EVERYONE in the distribution channel. The distributors and dealers are trying to "TAP OUT" and Topps won't release the chokehold.

Hopefully, they won't cause irreversible damage.
BG

Sucks when card companies make poor decisions that screw things up

Fortunately until now, those mistakes havent been big enough to cripple the financial health of the wholesale side of the business.
BG

You mean these same wholesalers that made a killing on Bowman?
Yeah I bet they're crippled. :lol:

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Bottom line is that Topps will be fine. Most have forgotten about the 2008 BC debacle

 

[Moonlight Graham]

"Dear Valued customer, we at Topps have decided that your order of 10 cases is simply too much. We have down graded you to 2 cases. It's our belief that you can not sell 10 cases and the demand your customers have are inaccurate. Please let those know who want to purchase this product that it's our intention to more accurately guage your real demand and as such re evaluate what your customers really want.

Further more, in the future, please note that we will no longer accept pre orders or orders of any kind. Rather, we will inform you as to what we feel you should be able to sell and provide accordingly. We have listened to those who believe we have a responsability akin to a bartender, and will do our best from here on out to make sure that you do not go over your limit.

Best regards, [strike:1qzpe1j4]BG[/strike:1qzpe1j4] Topps."

LOL... How about:

Dear Valued customer,

We recently solicited orders for 2010 Bowman Chrome Baseball (releasing in November). Unfortunately, demand for this item far exceeded the scheduled print run for this item. Therefore, we unfortunately are reducing all orders by 33% in an effort to fairly allocate the print run. This is necessary in order to keep the integrity of traditional insert rates (colored refractors) and the integrity of the quality checklist we previously announced .

As a collectible company, we hope you can appreciate our commitment to producing limited edition collectibles designed to deliver both enjoyment and long term value. Thank you for your support.

Best regards, Topps

***

Despite the blatant silliness of your post, you do realize that Topps allocates items (cuts orders) all the time and reduces distributor orders all the time (for example, MMA Knockout releasing in December).

Why should this have been different?

I dont expect collectors to understand or appreciate the devastation created by these 3-4 lemon products. It doesnt change the reality that nearly $4-5 million dollars will be lost by dealers and dsitributors on these 4 releases. This is devastating. It is easy to crack jokes behind a computer or expect dealers to suck it up, but delaers cannot make the $$$ necessary to take these sorts of hits. My apologies for the passion defending these dealers the slightest bit.

BG

You're providing valuable insight to a lot of people that otherwise aren't privy to these business dealings. I'm thinking that at lease a few of the dealers you spoke of in Las Vegas will be unable to recover.

 

[Leaf]

Also, its not about if Topps made more money. It is about the fact they have financially strangled EVERYONE in the distribution channel. The distributors and dealers are trying to "TAP OUT" and Topps won't release the chokehold.

Hopefully, they won't cause irreversible damage.
BG

Sucks when card companies make poor decisions that screw things up

Fortunately until now, those mistakes havent been big enough to cripple the financial health of the wholesale side of the business.
BG

You mean these same wholesalers that made a killing on Bowman?
Yeah I bet they're crippled. :lol:

IF....
They bought 40-60 cases Bowman at $560 and sold 90% of it at $660-720 and 10% at $1000+
They bought 200-250 cases Bowman chrome at $620 and sold 25-30% at $720 and 70-75% at $420-480
Do the math.

The quantities are devastating. I talk to EVERY Topps distributor regularly (as they are also Leaf distributors). I know the pain.
BG

 

[011873]

BG, if it was possible to give 10000 "thanks" on a single post, I would have given it to you for that "letter from Topps" you just posted.

That is one of the best posts ever made on fcb. Thats how it should have been done by Topps.

You all know that its NOT ONLY the dist. and dealers who have massive quantites of BC who are taking hits, correct?

I have about a case left so by no means am I "stuck" with it, but even so, because it was so overproduced, the "stuck with them" dealers drop the price and it keeps dropping and dropping.

So when "joe collector" walks in my shop and sees them in the $60 range, he instantly thinks Im ripping him off because they sell for $50 or less on line, not even thinking that they cost me $56 from my pre orders. So I look bad eventhough so many others massivley over ordered and I didnt.

And yes, Topps DOES have a ton of blame in this fiasco, be it Topps Chrome or Bowman Chrome. Its a collectible product that is very very volitile and Topps knows exactly how many boxes they have avergaed over the last several years and to triple....QUADRUPLE?......production just screams greed and not giving a **** about the Hobby or people associated with it....outside of walmart and target and k mart.

Theres a decade and a half (at minimum) of proof that over production kills. How come they cant see it?

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

"Dear Valued customer, we at Topps have decided that your order of 10 cases is simply too much. We have down graded you to 2 cases. It's our belief that you can not sell 10 cases and the demand your customers have are inaccurate. Please let those know who want to purchase this product that it's our intention to more accurately guage your real demand and as such re evaluate what your customers really want.

Further more, in the future, please note that we will no longer accept pre orders or orders of any kind. Rather, we will inform you as to what we feel you should be able to sell and provide accordingly. We have listened to those who believe we have a responsability akin to a bartender, and will do our best from here on out to make sure that you do not go over your limit.

Best regards, [strike:1zftrn1c]BG[/strike:1zftrn1c] Topps."

LOL... How about:

Dear Valued customer,

We recently solicited orders for 2010 Bowman Chrome Baseball (releasing in November). Unfortunately, demand for this item far exceeded the scheduled print run for this item. Therefore, we unfortunately are reducing all orders by 33% in an effort to fairly allocate the print run. This is necessary in order to keep the integrity of traditional insert rates (colored refractors) and the integrity of the quality checklist we previously announced .

As a collectible company, we hope you can appreciate our commitment to producing limited edition collectibles designed to deliver both enjoyment and long term value. Thank you for your support.

Best regards, Topps

***

Despite the blatant silliness of your post, you do realize that Topps allocates items (cuts orders) all the time and reduces distributor orders all the time (for example, MMA Knockout releasing in December).

Why should this have been different?

I dont expect collectors to understand or appreciate the devastation created by these 3-4 lemon products. It doesnt change the reality that nearly $4-5 million dollars will be lost by dealers and dsitributors on these 4 releases. This is devastating. It is easy to crack jokes behind a computer or expect dealers to suck it up, but delaers cannot make the $$$ necessary to take these sorts of hits. My apologies for the passion defending these dealers the slightest bit.

BG

Brian
Well done!
I agree Topps should have cut everyone back, to keep the insert ratio.
Imagine the box prices as word got out that production was "limited?"

You should run a card company! Oh wait....
Joe

 

[coltsnsox07]

Since Nov. 5th, about 75 cases have ended at around $470 on ebay!

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Since Nov. 5th, about 75 cases have ended at around $470 on ebay!

NICE!

 

[mancini79]

Its a collectible product that is very very volitile and Topps knows exactly how many boxes they have avergaed over the last several years and to triple....QUADRUPLE?......production just screams greed and not giving a shat about the Hobby or people associated with it....outside of walmart and target and k mart.

Oh, you must mean the years where other companies were also putting out cards. 2010 is a whole different ballgame on predicting production. Even with this "over-production", there is still less overall product out there than years previous.

 

[Leaf]

Since Nov. 5th, about 75 cases have ended at around $470 on ebay!

NICE!

Ive got 20 cases I want to sell cheaper than that. Will someone please buy these already?... LOL...

BG

 

[Leaf]

Its a collectible product that is very very volitile and Topps knows exactly how many boxes they have avergaed over the last several years and to triple....QUADRUPLE?......production just screams greed and not giving a shat about the Hobby or people associated with it....outside of walmart and target and k mart.

Oh, you must mean the years where other companies were also putting out cards. 2010 is a whole different ballgame on predicting production. Even with this "over-production", there is still less overall product out there than years previous.

True, but the market cannot (and probably never will again) be able to swallow 9,000-10,000 cases of an item.
BG

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Its a collectible product that is very very volitile and Topps knows exactly how many boxes they have avergaed over the last several years and to triple....QUADRUPLE?......production just screams greed and not giving a shat about the Hobby or people associated with it....outside of walmart and target and k mart.

Oh, you must mean the years where other companies were also putting out cards. 2010 is a whole different ballgame on predicting production. Even with this "over-production", there is still less overall product out there than years previous.

True, but the market cannot (and probably never will again) be able to swallow 9,000-10,000 cases of an item.
BG

Maybe this is what needed to happen to correct the "HOBBY" aspect of this business. Maybe we can get back to having people collect again someday...maybe

 

[hail2thevictors]

Since Nov. 5th, about 75 cases have ended at around $470 on ebay!

NICE!

Ive got 20 cases I want to sell cheaper than that. Will someone please buy these already?... LOL...

BG

Do you really?

 

[mancini79]

Since Nov. 5th, about 75 cases have ended at around $470 on ebay!

NICE!

Ive got 20 cases I want to sell cheaper than that. Will someone please buy these already?... LOL...

BG

Why did you order so many cases?

 

[ballerskrip]

It's hard to put a lot of blame on Topps for the production. It's only termed "over production" because of the Stras fall out. Topps fulfilled orders and was using pre-orders to determine demand, since they couldn't use 09 numbers. They are now exclusive in baseball, so they are solely responsible for supplying just enough product.
What they are to be blamed for is the way they promoted BC. Stating that USA Buybacks would be included in the product before the product hit the shelves made it seem like they would be in packs. There was no reason to believe wrapper redemptions would be the only way to get them. Topps knew when BC shipped, there was going to be some kind of promotion, but did not disclose it til a week later. The least they could have done was send a press release to keep wrappers and stay tuned for more details.

Why do people KEEP SAYING THE FALLOUT IS ONLY BECAUSE OF STRASBURG?

Get a clue. This is NOT the only reason. If you have been opening Bowman, Bowman Chrome, and Bowman Chrom Draft for years, it is apparent that the issue IS NOT JUST BECAUSE OF STRASBURG. Every case made is another case that the same amount of superfractors, red refractors, orange refractors, gold refractors, ETC are spread out between.

All of sudden you rip a case, hit ZERO Orange, 1 gold, 4 blues, and one color or Zero color autos....Guess what, that is because of OVERPRODUCTION. People feel like they got SCREWED RAW because of this, not because of Strasburg.

Please people, STOP blaming it on Strasburg. He has VERY little to do with the issues at hand.
skrip

 

[mredsox89]

It's hard to put a lot of blame on Topps for the production. It's only termed "over production" because of the Stras fall out. Topps fulfilled orders and was using pre-orders to determine demand, since they couldn't use 09 numbers. They are now exclusive in baseball, so they are solely responsible for supplying just enough product.
What they are to be blamed for is the way they promoted BC. Stating that USA Buybacks would be included in the product before the product hit the shelves made it seem like they would be in packs. There was no reason to believe wrapper redemptions would be the only way to get them. Topps knew when BC shipped, there was going to be some kind of promotion, but did not disclose it til a week later. The least they could have done was send a press release to keep wrappers and stay tuned for more details.

Why do people KEEP SAYING THE FALLOUT IS ONLY BECAUSE OF STRASBURG?

Get a clue. This is NOT the only reason. If you have been opening Bowman, Bowman Chrome, and Bowman Chrom Draft for years, it is apparent that the issue IS NOT JUST BECAUSE OF STRASBURG. Every case made is another case that the same amount of superfractors, red refractors, orange refractors, gold refractors, ETC are spread out between.

All of sudden you rip a case, hit ZERO Orange, 1 gold, 4 blues, and one color or Zero color autos....Guess what, that is because of OVERPRODUCTION. People feel like they got SCREWED RAW because of this, not because of Strasburg.

Please people, STOP blaming it on Strasburg. He has VERY little to do with the issues at hand.
skrip

I feel like very few people are actually in this mind, even though I believe it is correct. The issue is that people bought in massive quantities because they thought Strasburg would be $ like in Bowman, when in reality, even as a regular auto, u aren't going to hit him very often. Strasburg made $ in Bowman because of everything other than the auto, and the auto was just the tip of the iceberg. 2010 Bowman made money because people went nuts for Stras base and stuff, and you got much more of him in a case of Bowman than in a case of BC. Strasburg might have been a cause of overproduction, but if you actually looked at where the money from Strasburg came from in Bowman you wouldn't have assumed you would get near that in BC, especially when he had an auto in TC just prior

 

[Leaf]

Since Nov. 5th, about 75 cases have ended at around $470 on ebay!

NICE!

Ive got 20 cases I want to sell cheaper than that. Will someone please buy these already?... LOL...

BG

Why did you order so many cases?

I just bought them today from a buddy of mine who needed cash!
I am flipping.. not holding... BG

 

[Bob Loblaw]

"Dear Valued customer, we at Topps have decided that your order of 10 cases is simply too much. We have down graded you to 2 cases. It's our belief that you can not sell 10 cases and the demand your customers have are inaccurate. Please let those know who want to purchase this product that it's our intention to more accurately guage your real demand and as such re evaluate what your customers really want.

Further more, in the future, please note that we will no longer accept pre orders or orders of any kind. Rather, we will inform you as to what we feel you should be able to sell and provide accordingly. We have listened to those who believe we have a responsability akin to a bartender, and will do our best from here on out to make sure that you do not go over your limit.

Best regards, [strike:39skfi20]BG[/strike:39skfi20] Topps."

LOL... How about:

Dear Valued customer,

We recently solicited orders for 2010 Bowman Chrome Baseball (releasing in November). Unfortunately, demand for this item far exceeded the scheduled print run for this item. Therefore, we unfortunately are reducing all orders by 33% in an effort to fairly allocate the print run. This is necessary in order to keep the integrity of traditional insert rates (colored refractors) and the integrity of the quality checklist we previously announced .

As a collectible company, we hope you can appreciate our commitment to producing limited edition collectibles designed to deliver both enjoyment and long term value. Thank you for your support.

Best regards, Topps

***

Despite the blatant silliness of your post, you do realize that Topps allocates items (cuts orders) all the time and reduces distributor orders all the time (for example, MMA Knockout releasing in December).

Why should this have been different?

I dont expect collectors to understand or appreciate the devastation created by these 3-4 lemon products. It doesnt change the reality that nearly $4-5 million dollars will be lost by dealers and dsitributors on these 4 releases. This is devastating. It is easy to crack jokes behind a computer or expect dealers to suck it up, but delaers cannot make the $$$ necessary to take these sorts of hits. My apologies for the passion defending these dealers the slightest bit.

BG

Is it not a fair estimate to say that these same dealers who have lost 4-5 million (a number I take TREMENDOUS issue with -- if factory cost for a case is 52 * 12, or $624, and the cases are selling for 500, the've only lost 20% of their nut. The entire Topps Bowman Chrome print run was 10M, assuming every case that was sold was sold for a loss of 20%, these dealers lost only $2m. And we know not every case was sold for $500...), made quite a bit of money by selling 2010 Bowman boxes and jumbo boxes for 3 to 5 times the factory cost?

 

[Russ S.]

Since Nov. 5th, about 75 cases have ended at around $470 on ebay!

NICE!

Ive got 20 cases I want to sell cheaper than that. Will someone please buy these already?... LOL...

BG

Why did you order so many cases?

I just bought them today from a buddy of mine who needed cash!
I am flipping.. not holding... BG

Since you are dumping them cheap, how much?