Top Tier HOF...the Greatest of the Great (Top 25)

[scotty21690]

And a few other candidates...


Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, and Tom Seaver.

hmm...Eddie Plank before Seaver for sure. agreed? i think Plank has got to be in.
Greenberg. if he had played for the Yankees, he'd be DiMaggio.
Eddie Collins is probably the best 3B ever.
Lajoie has got to be right at the cusp of making it, but there aren't many spots left.

Greenberg and Dimaggio have very similar career stats, they are very compareable..pretty cool stuffs.


And I know there aren't many spots left but I am going to name a couple guys who should be #1 and 2 on Tier 2: Mel Ott, Paul Waner.

 

[HPC]

Josh Gibson needs to be on the list........while his contribution to the game is beyond words, I do not think Jackie Robinson is one of the top 25 players.

I am not sure that Maddux or Randy Johnson would be top 25. Maddux was amazing in his era but his post-season numbers were marginal.

If you are including active players Arod should be on.

TRis Speaker also is a top 25 without question.

So, IMO, take off Maddux, RJ and Jackie Robinson and add Josh Gibson and Speaker (and Arod if you are including non-HOFers).

Johnson could be considered one of the top 10 pitchers ever and to want him off the list that has about 10 pitchers isnt right.

Not to mention he had success in the Steroid Era

 

[scotty21690]

Josh Gibson needs to be on the list........while his contribution to the game is beyond words, I do not think Jackie Robinson is one of the top 25 players.

I am not sure that Maddux or Randy Johnson would be top 25. Maddux was amazing in his era but his post-season numbers were marginal.

If you are including active players Arod should be on.

TRis Speaker also is a top 25 without question.

So, IMO, take off Maddux, RJ and Jackie Robinson and add Josh Gibson and Speaker (and Arod if you are including non-HOFers).

Johnson could be considered one of the top 10 pitchers ever and to want him off the list that has about 10 pitchers isnt right.

Not to mention he had success in the Steroid Era

Yes, he SHOULD be on the list.....but he is NOT in the Hall of Fame.

 

[HPC]

Josh Gibson needs to be on the list........while his contribution to the game is beyond words, I do not think Jackie Robinson is one of the top 25 players.

I am not sure that Maddux or Randy Johnson would be top 25. Maddux was amazing in his era but his post-season numbers were marginal.

If you are including active players Arod should be on.

TRis Speaker also is a top 25 without question.

So, IMO, take off Maddux, RJ and Jackie Robinson and add Josh Gibson and Speaker (and Arod if you are including non-HOFers).

Johnson could be considered one of the top 10 pitchers ever and to want him off the list that has about 10 pitchers isnt right.

Not to mention he had success in the Steroid Era

Yes, he SHOULD be on the list.....but he is NOT in the Hall of Fame.

I thought the list was for current and future HOF. If it is for just current, then yes I would agree he cant be on the list

 

[crowhop]

And a few other candidates...


Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, and Tom Seaver.

hmm...Eddie Plank before Seaver for sure. agreed? i think Plank has got to be in.
Greenberg. if he had played for the Yankees, he'd be DiMaggio.
Eddie Collins is probably the best 3B ever.
Lajoie has got to be right at the cusp of making it, but there aren't many spots left.

Greenberg and Dimaggio have very similar career stats, they are very compareable..pretty cool stuffs.


And I know there aren't many spots left but I am going to name a couple guys who should be #1 and 2 on Tier 2: Mel Ott, Paul Waner.

no question...they are nearly identical. but because DiMaggio was a Yankee, married to Marilyn and drank coffee on commercials, he is The Yankee Clipper. Greenberg was a Jew during a time when that was a big, big deal and that hurt his national perception, i think. not fair, really.

 

[crowhop]

Eddie Plank in?
any objections?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/planked01.shtml

 

[scotty21690]

Eddie Plank in?
any objections?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/planked01.shtml

Nope, don't know how I forgot about him though....lol. I love his W%

On a side note, how do you go 2-5 in the postseason if you have a 1.32 ERA?

 

[crowhop]

Eddie Plank in?
any objections?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/planked01.shtml

Nope, don't know how I forgot about him though....lol. I love his W%

On a side note, how do you go 2-5 in the postseason if you have a 1.32 ERA?

you pitch against Roger Bresnahan and Christy Mathewson.
then against Rabbit Maranville and Bill James.

that's a tough draw.

 

[crowhop]

Rickey Henderson?
Johnny Mize?
Cap Anson?
Eddie Collins?
Willie Keeler?
George Sisler?
Frank Robinson?
Steve Carlton?
Mel Ott?
Paul Waner?
Josh Gibson?

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Mantle and Schmidt also have very similar career stats. But obviously Mantle played in a different era.

And a few other candidates...

Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, and Tom Seaver.

hmm...Eddie Plank before Seaver for sure. agreed? i think Plank has got to be in.
Greenberg. if he had played for the Yankees, he'd be DiMaggio.
Eddie Collins is probably the best 3B ever.
Lajoie has got to be right at the cusp of making it, but there aren't many spots left.

Greenberg and Dimaggio have very similar career stats, they are very compareable..pretty cool stuffs.


And I know there aren't many spots left but I am going to name a couple guys who should be #1 and 2 on Tier 2: Mel Ott, Paul Waner.

 

[crowhop]

Mantle and Schmidt also have very similar career stats. But obviously Mantle played in a different era.

And a few other candidates...

Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, and Tom Seaver.

hmm...Eddie Plank before Seaver for sure. agreed? i think Plank has got to be in.
Greenberg. if he had played for the Yankees, he'd be DiMaggio.
Eddie Collins is probably the best 3B ever.
Lajoie has got to be right at the cusp of making it, but there aren't many spots left.

Greenberg and Dimaggio have very similar career stats, they are very compareable..pretty cool stuffs.


And I know there aren't many spots left but I am going to name a couple guys who should be #1 and 2 on Tier 2: Mel Ott, Paul Waner.

i gave Schmidt a bump because he played what i perceive to be a tougher postion in the field and he played it as the 2nd or 3rd best defensive Third Base ever.

i think Mantle has to get in though because he is a legend, but his stats aren't really greater than several who won't make the cut.

 

[BrewerSuperCollector]

I only read the first page, but I have to add Rickey Henderson. When he baseball left him he was the all time leader in walks, runs, and stolen bases. He earned a Gold Glove, so he could play defense also.

 

[crowhop]

I only read the first page, but I have to add Rickey Henderson. When he baseball left him he was the all time leader in walks, runs, and stolen bases. He earned a Gold Glove, so he could play defense also.

that's where i have been leaning for the last spot, but wanted to see what others thought.

 

[Jays_Cards]

Ricky over Mickey Mantle or Roberto Clemente would be an absolute travesty. I cant believe I havent seen Clemente's name yet..

 

[scotty21690]

I only read the first page, but I have to add Rickey Henderson. When he baseball left him he was the all time leader in walks, runs, and stolen bases. He earned a Gold Glove, so he could play defense also.

that's where i have been leaning for the last spot, but wanted to see what others thought.

Meh, his BA just doesn't do it for me. Was he one of the best baserunners of all time? Yes, but when I think of the best of the best he does not come to mind. I would rather have Waner or Ott in that last spot, but that might just be me.

 

[MattinglyAlexander]

Re: Top Tier HOF...the Greatest of the Great

anyone pick Ripken for SS? he's certainly "Top Tier"

i don't think so. but that might be just me.
i've always thought that if he didn't have the streak, he would be a HOF SS, but not the icon he is today. and i just can't get behind a consecutive games played streak like i could a consecutive season streak with a .320 avg or something like that. it is impressive, but not THAT impressive in my eyes.
i just can't think of him being one of the 25 greatest players to ever play baseball.

flame on.

I suppose you meant if he didn't have the most consecutive games streak? The only thing wrong with Cal is his BA needs to be about 20 points higher, but that's not enough to say he's not a top tier player.

3,184 hits, 431 Homers, 1,695 RBI, ROY, two time MVP and selected to the All Star game 19 times straight = Top Tier...and no, we can't forget he's the Iron Man. Let's not forget two gold gloves as well. The only reason that guys like Ripken ever made any errors is because they go after balls that other players wouldn't even attempt to.

I realize you're saying, "Well, maybe if Ripken took a break, he'd have had a better BA." :|

 

[MattinglyAlexander]

I only read the first page, but I have to add Rickey Henderson. When he baseball left him he was the all time leader in walks, runs, and stolen bases. He earned a Gold Glove, so he could play defense also.

that's where i have been leaning for the last spot, but wanted to see what others thought.

Meh, his BA just doesn't do it for me. Was he one of the best baserunners of all time? Yes, but when I think of the best of the best he does not come to mind. I would rather have Waner or Ott in that last spot, but that might just be me.

best leadoff hitter all time as well. Let's not forget, you have to score runs. Henderson did that.

 

[scotty21690]

I only read the first page, but I have to add Rickey Henderson. When he baseball left him he was the all time leader in walks, runs, and stolen bases. He earned a Gold Glove, so he could play defense also.

that's where i have been leaning for the last spot, but wanted to see what others thought.

Meh, his BA just doesn't do it for me. Was he one of the best baserunners of all time? Yes, but when I think of the best of the best he does not come to mind. I would rather have Waner or Ott in that last spot, but that might just be me.

best leadoff hitter all time as well. Let's not forget, you have to score runs. Henderson did that.

Yes, he did. But Paul Waner is ahead of Henderson in virtually every stat:

Waner - 3152 hits
Henderson - 3055 hits

Waner - 8 200 hit seasons
Henderson - 0 200 hit seasons

Waner - 605 doubles
Henderson - 510 doubles

Waner - 191 triples
Henderson - 66 triples

Waner - 1309 RBI's
Henderson - 1115 RBI's

Waner - 376 K's
Henderson - 1694 K's

Waner - .333 career BA
Henderson - .279 career BA

Waner - .404 career OBP
Henderson - .401 OBP

Waner - .473 SLG%
Henderson - .419 SLG%

Waner - 134 OPS+
Henderson - 127 OPS+

Waner - 4478 TB in 9459 AB's
Henderson - 4588 TB in 10961 AB's


You would really put Henderson in over Waner??

Yes Henderson scored runs, but so did Waner and he drove in more runs. And Ott/Henderson is not a valid comparison but I would put in Ott before Henderson in a heartbeat. Henderson is tier 2 in my book. JMO

 

[MattinglyAlexander]

Scotty,

I'm not arguing who's "better" err...well, I'm saying the top tier belongs to many.
Was Waner a leadoff man? I actually don't know. Don't think he was.

Henderson IS the best leadoff hitter ever... I believe he is still the alltime leadoff homer guy, right?.....with a nice chunk of homeruns being hit as leadoff, I believe around 85 or something close. If he were batting anywhere else in the order, he'd probably have had a crap load more ribbies.

Waner is "Top Tier" no doubt... and while Waner is ahead in most stats, they are fairly close in most stats as well, except one and that would be stolen bases. Henderson, is the best of the best.

 

[Jays_Cards]

If you are specializing positions (ie leadoff, basestealer, etc) than Rickey is definitely in the top 25. If not, its my personal opinion that Rickey is nowhere near the top 25 players of all time.