Which Player Would Crush You if You Found Out He Was Juicing

[jbone17]

For me it would also be Pujols or Griffey. I have a great mind to think that Griffey was juicing in the late 90's and it would kill me if it were true. Pujols would kill me, because this guy has a legitimate shot to break the all time record for HR's.

 

[predatorkj]

Manny I'd say would be the biggest shock, Pedro close second.

I would be disappointed if Ortiz had, but wouldn't be shocked. He already has made statements to try to cover his ass, so wouldn't be shocked.

I hate to sound like an ass but if I had to pick...I'd say Manny is a user.Don't get me wrong...I am not hating on your player and I am not trying to be rude but I just can't understand how anyone could say what you did with a straight face.

 

[ballerskrip]

???

For me, it would be Pujols, hands down.

Sadly, I think this might happen, along with adding 3-4 years to his age....

I have told this story many times, but I heard from a few well respected baseball people that it is widely thought throughout MLB that Pujols is a solid 4 years older than what he claims.

skrip

 

[CAROLINA BOSOX]

cortisone is a steroid. Schilling injected that into his ankle so that he could pitch. Without the cortisone injection he could not have pitched that game. So is it safe to say that Schilling used a drug that enhanced his performance? Schilling is a hypocrite and regardless of the symantecs of your argument he could not have played without the injection. Without the drug he is not even on the field. Legal or Illegal Schilling was willing to put something foreign in his body to enhance his performance. He is just as guilty as the other guys as far as I am concerned.

Based on your argument then any diabetic player that takes insulin to allow them to play is cheating also?

Diabetes is a condition vs. an ailment. Without the cortisone shot Schilling would not have died he would have sat in the bullpen with an ankle injury.

Other than Adam Morrison are there any known diabetics in pro sports?

Arthritis is a condition that commonly uses cortisone therapy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when it comes down to it lots of things are bad for us yet we use them anyway caffeine, nicotine, etc. It comes doen to a matter of legality for me. If the substance is used legally then I see no problem with it.

Jay Cutler is diabetic, he recenyly lost his glucometer to a Peyton Manning prank.

 

[subpop77]

babe ruth

He was juicing, with BEER

 

[jlvjr16]

ichiro
dwright
beltran
pelfrey

dave

Dave, you would be crush if you found out that you and yourself were juicing?

 

[ostrander111]

Carlos Beltran,I wouldnt stop collecting him but I'd lose a little respect for him as a player.Mike Piazza is another player.

Ive looked at some of his baseball cards and found an interesting fact.... the year before he was traded to the Astros he was around 175 lbs.. then when he went to the Astros and hit those 8 postseason HRs...he was 215... :| Somethin fishy there

 

[subpop77]

I would have to say Frank Thomas or Jr.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Cole Hamels.

 

[seitas]

[quote="CAROLINA BOSOX":14100yst]

cortisone is a steroid. Schilling injected that into his ankle so that he could pitch. Without the cortisone injection he could not have pitched that game. So is it safe to say that Schilling used a drug that enhanced his performance? Schilling is a hypocrite and regardless of the symantecs of your argument he could not have played without the injection. Without the drug he is not even on the field. Legal or Illegal Schilling was willing to put something foreign in his body to enhance his performance. He is just as guilty as the other guys as far as I am concerned.

Based on your argument then any diabetic player that takes insulin to allow them to play is cheating also?

Diabetes is a condition vs. an ailment. Without the cortisone shot Schilling would not have died he would have sat in the bullpen with an ankle injury.

Other than Adam Morrison are there any known diabetics in pro sports?

Arthritis is a condition that commonly uses cortisone therapy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when it comes down to it lots of things are bad for us yet we use them anyway caffeine, nicotine, etc. It comes doen to a matter of legality for me. If the substance is used legally then I see no problem with it.

Jay Cutler is diabetic, he recenyly lost his glucometer to a Peyton Manning prank.[/quote:14100yst]

You make good points. But the legality argument muddles things further as far as I am concerned. My entire point is who determines which of these substances is legal. Many supplements have been considered legal when first released then as the FDA releases info those substances are put on the 'banned list'. Do we want our athletes COMPLETELY clean or are we willing to let them take supplements and hope that someone in some ivory tower deems that supplement to be acceptable? It is nearly impossible to police what human beings put into their bodies and the players union will never give the league the authority to test the players in a comprehensive manner. Cheating will never end in baseball. Where there is a will there is a way.

 

[goldenegg1]

I would be crushed to find out Andre Dawson, Ryne Sandberg, or Jody Davis cheated.

 

[fengzhang]

[quote="CAROLINA BOSOX":2og0rmno]

cortisone is a steroid. Schilling injected that into his ankle so that he could pitch. Without the cortisone injection he could not have pitched that game. So is it safe to say that Schilling used a drug that enhanced his performance? Schilling is a hypocrite and regardless of the symantecs of your argument he could not have played without the injection. Without the drug he is not even on the field. Legal or Illegal Schilling was willing to put something foreign in his body to enhance his performance. He is just as guilty as the other guys as far as I am concerned.

Based on your argument then any diabetic player that takes insulin to allow them to play is cheating also?

Diabetes is a condition vs. an ailment. Without the cortisone shot Schilling would not have died he would have sat in the bullpen with an ankle injury.

Other than Adam Morrison are there any known diabetics in pro sports?

Arthritis is a condition that commonly uses cortisone therapy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when it comes down to it lots of things are bad for us yet we use them anyway caffeine, nicotine, etc. It comes doen to a matter of legality for me. If the substance is used legally then I see no problem with it.

Jay Cutler is diabetic, he recenyly lost his glucometer to a Peyton Manning prank.

You make good points. But the legality argument muddles things further as far as I am concerned. My entire point is who determines which of these substances is legal. Many supplements have been considered legal when first released then as the FDA releases info those substances are put on the 'banned list'. Do we want our athletes COMPLETELY clean or are we willing to let them take supplements and hope that someone in some ivory tower deems that supplement to be acceptable? It is nearly impossible to police what human beings put into their bodies and the players union will never give the league the authority to test the players in a comprehensive manner. Cheating will never end in baseball. Where there is a will there is a way.[/quote:2og0rmno]

Good point, especially with something like anabolic steroids (which the FDA actually opposed making illegal). Whether or not steroids should be illegal is definitely a very disputed point as evidenced by the heavy opposition to it being placed on the controlled substances list.

This isn't a case of protecting the athletes' health. In sports, we let them do all kinds of things that are really bad for their bodies like playing on broken ankles or getting excessive cortisone shots (remember, cortisone suppresses your immune system which is why it's used as an anti-inflammatory agent).

 

[abncollectsautos]

Manny I'd say would be the biggest shock, Pedro close second.

I would be disappointed if Ortiz had, but wouldn't be shocked. He already has made statements to try to cover his ass, so wouldn't be shocked.

i agree completely

 

[jlvjr16]

Manny I'd say would be the biggest shock, Pedro close second.

I would be disappointed if Ortiz had, but wouldn't be shocked. He already has made statements to try to cover his ass, so wouldn't be shocked.

i agree completely

HA! Shocked with Manny. He'll be the first one to be open to anything. He's from the Dominican Republic - Manny being Manny on ROIDs.

 

[Penno]

I love the direction of this discussion. I don't have a problem with being a fan during the steroid era. I am knowledgeable enough put be able to put the accomplishments of this era into their proper context. I believe that Bonds was a top 10 all time player without steroids. I believe that with steroids you could make an argument that he is the best ever. Does that diminish Ruth, Mays, Cobb, Mantle? To me it doesn't. Just as not playing against black athletes doesn't diminish the incredible careers of Cobb or Ruth. Every era must be judged on it's own. The game has evolved and will continue to evolve. Rather than worrying about who did or didn't take PED's why can't we just go back to enjoying the game.

Because espn isnt done covering the story.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[ideal0024]

It would not crush me to find out anyone was using. Maybe because I was a Bonds fan, I have already come to terms with the issue.

Unfortunately, drugs have been part of the culture of MLB for over 50 years. Greenies (amphetamine) were used by a large percentage of players (including the likes of Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle) up until the recent crack-down. Now players are getting medical exemptions for ADD medications so that they can continue to use the stimulants they can't go without.

Players were getting "magic shots" from various doctors and other less qualified medical "experts" for decades. Teams, in all sports, have administered cortisone injections to players to keep them on the field.

I would imagine that the vast majority of players have taken something in their career to either recover from an injury, build muscle, or get up for a game. Maybe they had a cortisone injection, maybe their doctor gave them a shot, maybe their teammate had a great supplement they got from GNC.

Competitive people will do whatever it takes to stay in the game.

My frustration comes with the sports writers from the past 20 years. They celebrated these guys while looking the other way or giving them them the "wink, wink" until it became more interesting to hang these same guys. Jason Stark wrote about how he and the other Philly writers chuckled when Lenny Dykstra came to camp bigger one spring and admitted he "had a little help" over the winter. Now they want to sit in judgment of these guys and decide who was worthy and who was legit, when they were complicit it furthering the culture which led to more and more players feeling they needed to do this stuff to keep up.

In the Bonds expose it was written that Barry said he was going to start using because everyone was swinging from McGwire and Sosa's nuts when they weren't half the player he was. If the greatest player of his generation felt compelled to use to keep up, you can imagine how other players felt/feel; especially when generational wealth was/is potentially at stake.

I think we just need to judge these guys in relation the their peers. It is useless to compare against other eras, not just because of the rampant drug use, but the new wave of smaller ball parks too.

We will never know everyone who used and it is impossible to know who was clean. Users pass drug tests all the time. The science of detection always lags far behind the science of developing and masking PEDs.

I agree with everything this dude says....from the top to bottom.

The only player that would really bother me now would be Mauer, but with the injuries & trying to come back from those it's wouldn't really surprise me.

 

[fengzhang]

It would not crush me to find out anyone was using. Maybe because I was a Bonds fan, I have already come to terms with the issue.

Unfortunately, drugs have been part of the culture of MLB for over 50 years. Greenies (amphetamine) were used by a large percentage of players (including the likes of Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle) up until the recent crack-down. Now players are getting medical exemptions for ADD medications so that they can continue to use the stimulants they can't go without.

Players were getting "magic shots" from various doctors and other less qualified medical "experts" for decades. Teams, in all sports, have administered cortisone injections to players to keep them on the field.

I would imagine that the vast majority of players have taken something in their career to either recover from an injury, build muscle, or get up for a game. Maybe they had a cortisone injection, maybe their doctor gave them a shot, maybe their teammate had a great supplement they got from GNC.

Competitive people will do whatever it takes to stay in the game.

My frustration comes with the sports writers from the past 20 years. They celebrated these guys while looking the other way or giving them them the "wink, wink" until it became more interesting to hang these same guys. Jason Stark wrote about how he and the other Philly writers chuckled when Lenny Dykstra came to camp bigger one spring and admitted he "had a little help" over the winter. Now they want to sit in judgment of these guys and decide who was worthy and who was legit, when they were complicit it furthering the culture which led to more and more players feeling they needed to do this stuff to keep up.

In the Bonds expose it was written that Barry said he was going to start using because everyone was swinging from McGwire and Sosa's nuts when they weren't half the player he was. If the greatest player of his generation felt compelled to use to keep up, you can imagine how other players felt/feel; especially when generational wealth was/is potentially at stake.

I think we just need to judge these guys in relation the their peers. It is useless to compare against other eras, not just because of the rampant drug use, but the new wave of smaller ball parks too.

We will never know everyone who used and it is impossible to know who was clean. Users pass drug tests all the time. The science of detection always lags far behind the science of developing and masking PEDs.

I agree with everything this dude says....from the top to bottom.

The only player that would really bother me now would be Mauer, but with the injuries & trying to come back from those it's wouldn't really surprise me.

Me too. I can't believe I missed the post you quoted but it is spot on. Who says the older players didn't cheat? Whitey Ford, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry, they all cheated! Yet, I don't see any baseball writers calling for Ty Cobb to be removed from the HOF. The only difference is that steroids weren't available back then so what did they do? They found other ways to cheat. The hypocrisy of baseball writers is astounding. I truly believe they've failed us by writing article after article on Bonds or Arod and placing no blame on Major League Baseball.

The point regarding cortisone/prednisone is very valid. It is definitely used differently in sports than with the general public. Physicians normally give a shot to reduce inflammation so that the patient can rest the affected area and get better. In sports, it is used to reduce pain so that the patient (athlete) can go out there, play on the field, and make it worse! It is extremely irresponsible of doctors to give cortisone shots so that the local team can win 5 extra games. That is not looking out for the health of the athlete. That is looking out for the win/loss record of the team. That's as irresponsible as prescribing anabolic steroids to a player so he can enhance his performance.

 

[tribefan2427]

Ripken