Who Deserves the 2012 NL MVP by Numbers Alone?

[jbhofmann]

You are really grasping for anything now.

LOL grasping? I'm not grasping at anything. The reality is that the USPS cycling team put on a decade long PED scam that evaded the best drug testers in the world. There are many many PEDs that there is simply no test for. If you choose to hide your head in the sand I'm fine with that. I'm simply stating facts. Ryan Braun tested positive. He was never suspended. You make your own assumption.

 

[hive17]

I'm simply stating facts. Ryan Braun tested positive. He was never suspended. You make your own assumption.

It's not a fact that Braun tested positive, since there is no proof that can be verified. Sorry.

 

[matfanofold]

It's not a fact that Braun tested positive, since there is no proof that can be verified. Sorry.

I believe it is fact he tested positive, to the point it was stated that they were the highest elevated tests ( yes, two separate ones) to date. He simply was able to raise questions in the transportation methods of said tests to have his conviction overturned. Innocent on a technicality as it were.

 

[LazerShow15]

I believe it is fact he tested positive, to the point it was stated that they were the highest elevated tests ( yes, two separate ones) to date. He simply was able to raise questions in the transportation methods of said tests to have his conviction overturned. Innocent on a technicality as it were.

Who is still playing baseball and racking up MVP numbers while being tested all year, Yep Brauny and he is clean as a whistle. He has always put up the good numbers, unlike Melky.

 

[jbhofmann]

Who is still playing baseball and racking up MVP numbers while being tested all year, Yep Brauny and he is clean as a whistle. He has always put up the good numbers, unlike Melky.

Lance Armstrong was probably the most heavily tested man in the history of sports. He never failed a drug test. He also got stripped of seven Tour De France titles due to doping. Marion Jones never tested positive for PEDs. She served jail time and was stripped of medals. Braun lost all credibility last year. He will always be dirty in many people's eyes, regardless if he pisses clean the remainder of his life.

 

[hive17]

I believe it is fact he tested positive, to the point it was stated that they were the highest elevated tests ( yes, two separate ones) to date. He simply was able to raise questions in the transportation methods of said tests to have his conviction overturned. Innocent on a technicality as it were.

I'm JUST playing devil's advocate here, but you can't even factually link that sample with Braun anymore, much less the results. Yes, he technically beat the charges. But he still beat them; and if one tries to say that he tested positive, they would be factually incorrect. The ONLY thing that can be said was that Braun was accused by MLB (thru their Joint Drug protocol), and that the end result was that he was not suspended. Those are the only facts left.

I'm not trying to be argumentative; my job deals with sample collection and evidence. If I simply accept what someone says, when the proof is not there, then I would be wrong. So it matters to me. I would say the same thing if Melky's situation had turned out this way.

 

[ballerskrip]

I'm JUST playing devil's advocate here, but you can't even factually link that sample with Braun anymore, much less the results. Yes, he technically beat the charges. But he still beat them; and if one tries to say that he tested positive, they would be factually incorrect. The ONLY thing that can be said was that Braun was accused by MLB (thru their Joint Drug protocol), and that the end result was that he was not suspended. Those are the only facts left.

I'm not trying to be argumentative; my job deals with sample collection and evidence. If I simply accept what someone says, when the proof is not there, then I would be wrong. So it matters to me. I would say the same thing if Melky's situation had turned out this way.

OJ simpson was innocent as well, right? Sorry, had to do it

Oh, and Sammy Sosa never tested positive either, notice how he is lumped in with Mcgwire and Bonds at every turn?

 

[hive17]

OJ simpson was innocent as well, right? Sorry, had to do it

Oh, and Sammy Sosa never tested positive either, notice how he is lumped in with Mcgwire and Bonds at every turn?

Yeah, Sammy was never guilty of anything provable (except a corked bat).

And while it can never be said that OJ legally killed anyone, he was found civillay liable, so there is a slight difference. But I think you see my point.

 

[ballerskrip]

Yeah, Sammy was never guilty of anything provable (except a corked bat).

And while it can never be said that OJ legally killed anyone, he was found civillay liable, so there is a slight difference. But I think you see my point.

I was just goofing more than anything. At the same time, public perception is a B*tch, whether you are guilty or innocent. Sosa is a perfect example. He was never proven to have done anything illegal, or against the drug policy. But he is lumped with Palmeiro, Mcgwire, bonds, canseco, sucks, but it's the truth.

 

[jbhofmann]

I'm JUST playing devil's advocate here, but you can't even factually link that sample with Braun anymore, much less the results. Yes, he technically beat the charges. But he still beat them; and if one tries to say that he tested positive, they would be factually incorrect. The ONLY thing that can be said was that Braun was accused by MLB (thru their Joint Drug protocol), and that the end result was that he was not suspended. Those are the only facts left.

I'm not trying to be argumentative; my job deals with sample collection and evidence. If I simply accept what someone says, when the proof is not there, then I would be wrong. So it matters to me. I would say the same thing if Melky's situation had turned out this way.

Not Guilty by reason of insanity saves the murderer but the victim remains. Just as Braun threaded the policy loopholes, he will always be the poster-child for synthetic testosterone. He didn't beat charges. He won an arbitration through an arbitrator who was subsequently fired. He may be clean and probably is, but most can't move forward knowing the damage he has already done.

 

[Crewfan82]

LOL grasping? I'm not grasping at anything. The reality is that the USPS cycling team put on a decade long PED scam that evaded the best drug testers in the world. There are many many PEDs that there is simply no test for. If you choose to hide your head in the sand I'm fine with that. I'm simply stating facts. Ryan Braun tested positive. He was never suspended. You make your own assumption.

Why would I hide my head in the sand. I have never been one to claim Braun never was on anything. Like others said you can't state anything about Braun being a PED user as a fact. You can assume, which is your choice. I will choose to assume he may have been on something to pick him up for the playoff run last year, but then again I am only assuming because nothing is fact. I will still root for him because he is a Brewer who, in the end, may be one of the best ever to wear a Brewers uni.

We can all argue about this until we are blue in the face and neither side will ever be able to prove their point or sway anyones opinion so it is pointless.

 

[jbhofmann]

Why would I hide my head in the sand. I have never been one to claim Braun never was on anything. Like others said you can't state anything about Braun being a PED user as a fact. You can assume, which is your choice. I will choose to assume he may have been on something to pick him up for the playoff run last year, but then again I am only assuming because nothing is fact. I will still root for him because he is a Brewer who, in the end, may be one of the best ever to wear a Brewers uni.

We can all argue about this until we are blue in the face and neither side will ever be able to prove their point or sway anyones opinion so it is pointless.

No problem. You're allowed an opinion. Just know that most* would laugh at the opinion that synthetic testosterone can grow in a basement refrigerator.




*most-every person who understands the word synthetic

 

[hive17]

No problem. You're allowed an opinion. Just know that most* would laugh at the opinion that synthetic testosterone can grow in a basement refrigerator.




*most-every person who understands the word synthetic

No one here is making that argument though. We're just talking semantics.

 

[TNP777]

It sure seems like most Brewer fans here have their heads buried shoulder-deep in the sand regarding Braun (particularly the ultimate apologist, brauny). Most of you want to argue semantics and technicalities, while the rest of the world pretty much accepts that Braun cheated, got caught, and then beat the rap. Go ahead, continue to squeeze your eyes shut, plug your ears and yell MAMAMAMAMAMAMAMAMAMA so you don't have to come to grips with what the rest of us have acknowledged as reality.

Whether you like or not, Braun's name will forever be tainted and remain a shadow in the memories of fans and writers alike.

 

[jbhofmann]

It sure seems like most Brewer fans here have their heads buried shoulder-deep in the sand regarding Braun (particularly the ultimate apologist, brauny). Most of you want to argue semantics and technicalities, while the rest of the world pretty much accepts that Braun cheated, got caught, and then beat the rap. Go ahead, continue to squeeze your eyes shut, plug your ears and yell MAMAMAMAMAMAMAMAMAMA so you don't have to come to grips with what the rest of us have acknowledged as reality.

Whether you like or not, Braun's name will forever be tainted and remain a shadow in the memories of fans and writers alike.

I sort of understand. I mean if I was a Brewers fan, I'd probably cling to the only good thing I've have in decades.

 

[hive17]

I sort of understand. I mean if I was a Brewers fan, I'd probably cling to the only good thing I've have in decades.

Are you done trolling this thread, ooorrrrrrrrrr........

 

[elmalo]

My vote is for Cutch at this point.

This link to PED statement is garbage. What does that have to do with anything. If people thought he was juicing last year when he won the MVP it should be even more impressive that Braun is putting up the numbers he is this year without PEDs and without the "protection" of Prince.

Who is to say he is doing it this year without ped's?

 

[cgilmo]

Sigh, roid debates.

 

[jbhofmann]

Are you done trolling this thread, ooorrrrrrrrrr........

 

[jbhofmann]

Sigh, roid debates.

A debate has two logical sides...