Why Beckett is a JOKE

[jswaykos]

I go by what I want to pay for something. No Beckett, no eBay. As others have said before me, I will pay what I think is fair OR, if it's something I have to have, I'll go bonkers.

Now, let me check a '98 Donruss Crusade Red Juan Encarnacion in my newest '99 Tuff Stuff ...

This. When I'm at a show or sifting through cards on COMC or at the shop, I look at the price of a card, the type of card, and whether or not I feel like spending THAT much money on THAT card. Say it's a $100 card, but it's marked at $65. Still more than I feel like spending on a card.

Say a different card "books" at $8 but is on sale for $6... it's a small enough total amount that if I like the card, I'll buy it. I have a general idea of what cards SHOULD sell for, but the end all is whether or not it seems 'fair' to me at the time of purchase.

 

[Gellman]

Does anyone else think that the Beckett Price guide is an absolute JOKE??? A card is not WORTH what Beckett says it is worth. A card is worth what it is selling for on the open market! When you can buy a card that books for $100 for $10 on Ebay... the card is not worth $100. These jokers crack me up putting all of their BIN prices at listed Beckett value. Just had to vent a little bit. I would love to see an actual price guide that listed the values of cards based on what they were selling for at the current time. Any other thoughts on this, have at it!!!!

Price guides are just that, a guide. A card can sell for $200 one month and $50 the next.

That sort of price change (up or down) rarely happens without some sort of drastic outside interference, like a player getting hot or something else happening. People who say that eBay prices are unreliable are correct, because on ebay (and in life) something is only worth as much as someone else will pay for it at that moment. Value has never been a static enough number for collectors to demand it stay in one place for any period of time. If it sells for 200 one day, its worth 200 at that point. If it sells for 50 another day, its worth 50 at that point. You know why? Because that's how much someone would pay for it. It has nothing to do with some hat drawn number that some person in texas puts on it.

Despite my above feelings, that isnt even the biggest problem. The biggest problem is the unrealistic view that the price guide presents to people. People come back to the hobby to look up all the cards they have stashed in their closet and see that they should be able to get $XXXX dollars for their cards when really its only $XX dollars. How would that make you feel? People criticize me for being overly pessimistic, but how about Beckett refusing to address any of the negative things at all? Its the same thing, and the price guide is a part of it.

In addition to the obvious problems, what about all the other conflicts of interest the guide presents? Im not going to get into all of that stuff, ill be here typing for an hour.

At this point, I just sit back with my feelings about Beckett and avoid the clueless people who thump their guides like the bible.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Man, the Kentucky Derby has gone downhill ...

This is just how they make the glue for sticker autos

 

[Nate Colbert 17]

I often "over pay" for items for my Nate Colbert collection. One's person's trash is another person's treasure.

 

[notjomommasclint]

a silly question... dont you guys use beckett for the value when you insure your collections?

 

[nborton]

The problem isn't so much the pricing, but the frequency of pricing changes that a magazine can't keep up with.

If someone came out with a "price guide" that tracked all actual sales of cards on ebay, and charted it like the stock market it would be huge. So say a card that's really rare doesn't come up for sale but once a year, or a few months (whatever people consider rare). It could be charted, but remain unchanged until it sells again (with a listing of the sale date).

The pit was like this I guess, but only with their own sales. I think the general idea is a good one.

 

[jswaykos]

Does anyone else think that the Beckett Price guide is an absolute JOKE??? A card is not WORTH what Beckett says it is worth. A card is worth what it is selling for on the open market! When you can buy a card that books for $100 for $10 on Ebay... the card is not worth $100. These jokers crack me up putting all of their BIN prices at listed Beckett value. Just had to vent a little bit. I would love to see an actual price guide that listed the values of cards based on what they were selling for at the current time. Any other thoughts on this, have at it!!!!

Price guides are just that, a guide. A card can sell for $200 one month and $50 the next.

That sort of price change (up or down) rarely happens without some sort of drastic outside interference, like a player getting hot or something else happening. People who say that eBay prices are unreliable are correct, because on ebay (and in life) something is only worth as much as someone else will pay for it at that moment. Value has never been a static enough number for collectors to demand it stay in one place for any period of time. If it sells for 200 one day, its worth 200 at that point. If it sells for 50 another day, its worth 50 at that point. You know why? Because that's how much someone would pay for it. It has nothing to do with some hat drawn number that some person in texas puts on it.

Despite my above feelings, that isnt even the biggest problem. The biggest problem is the unrealistic view that the price guide presents to people. People come back to the hobby to look up all the cards they have stashed in their closet and see that they should be able to get $XXXX dollars for their cards when really its only $XX dollars. How would that make you feel? People criticize me for being overly pessimistic, but how about Beckett refusing to address any of the negative things at all? Its the same thing, and the price guide is a part of it.

In addition to the obvious problems, what about all the other conflicts of interest the guide presents? Im not going to get into all of that stuff, ill be here typing for an hour.

At this point, I just sit back with my feelings about Beckett and avoid the clueless people who thump their guides like the bible.

I TOTALLY, 100% agree with the paragraph about price guides affecting people coming back to the hobby. I can't even count the number of people that have discovered my love of cards, only to bust out their old boxes and ask me how much their cards are 'worth'. When I tell them 'nothing', to just enjoy them, they get offended and say it used to be worth $*** in the price guide. Well, sorry, but Travis Lee flamed out. And they discovered millions of sets of 89 Fleer were produced. And they're STILL printing '92 Score.

And just as quickly as they attempted to get back into the hobby, they left again. All because their price guide gave them false hope.

I'm not bashing Beckett, and I never have. I generally buy one or two issues a year, and they serve as a great reference for what subsets are where, who's in what, etc. For that purpose, I think it's a great publication. Their articles may not be timely or relevant, but that can be said for almost ANY print publication... it's a sign of the times, more than anything else.

 

[bportjoey]

eBay is way to volatile to rely on as a price guide.

For instance say there are 25 copy's of Jim Thome 2010 Topps Sterling and there are only 4 or 5 die hard collectors who collect Thome and buy with the I got to have it attitude and will pay up the wazzzoo for this specific card, As the first copies hit ebay they duke it out back and fourth bidding against each other raising the autions to the point that most bidders get out way early. After they all win a copy of their own, the rest of the collectors that didn't want to spend the money that the diehard guys did now will start to win the remaining 20 or so auctions 25% lower then they sold for earlier. As buys who are willing to put up the extra cash start to thin out eventually the final sales prices are now 50%-60%-75% less then the first few original auctions. So does that mean a card that originally sold for lets say $120 and is now selling at $45 can now only be sold for $45 because all the people who collect Thome hardcore have a copy of there own.

JMO

 

[craftysouthpaw]

a silly question... dont you guys use beckett for the value when you insure your collections?

I certainly do. That might be the most important usage of the magazine for me since I track every card I own in an excel file and update with each Beckett. I send that file to my insurance company once a year.

I am obviously in the minority is stating I think Beckett does a decent job of pricing. In my opinion, if people would pay as much attention to low book as high book, I think the guide would be seen as much more reasonable. But most folks focus on high book when that is supposed to just represent the ceiling of a card (i.e. to quote an earlier example, what Heyward sells for in Atlanta or what he sold for nationally at the peak of the hype). Only looking at high book will almost always be unrealistic.

Like everyone else, it does frustrate me how slow they are to reflect price changes even accounting for the obvious timing issues a monthly magazine has. Even the online guide can be painfully slow to get with a rapidly changing market. This is something I think they could be much better at and don't really understand why they struggle.

My biggest beef is how horrendous their shipping time is for the magazines. I usually don't get mine until almost two weeks after the newsstand date and that is inexcusable to me. I have contacted them and basically they told me I was out of luck unless I wanted to pay higher shipping. Ridiculous. Every other magazine my family subscribes to shows up within 3 days of newsstand but apparently Beckett sends everything media mail. I have subscribed to that magazine since 1986 and you'd think they would make more of an effort here.

 

[011873]

The biggest problem I have with them is that there are a HUGE amount of prospect cards whose prices should NEVER be that high because they flamed out.

Its like once they raised the values THREE YEARS AGO, they just dont feel like adjusting them.

Chip Canon is still $25?
Justin Huber still lists?
Humber is NOT a common?
BC Shelton is $6?

Theres no excuse to even list these cards as anything but commons. And believe me, there are hundreds of these examples I can list.

It doesnt bother me that they list McGwire base cards at $2 or Bonds inserts at $10. As small as it is, there is a chance that somewhere in this world, in some mall show, people still buy Bonds, Mac and Clemens cards.

And on top of that, its economical for Beckett to purge their guide as thats a ton less ink used. Ink that sells for more than the cards its used to price.

Ok so thats my thoughts on what bothers me about their prices.

So, onto if Beckett is still needed in this hobby with ebay around. Answer is a solid HECK YES.

Beckett ISNT the best thing to use to price blazing hot prospects. Belt anyone? Or even blazing hot "veterans"...JJ anyone?

Ubaldo was selling at insane levels before Beckett had a chance to raise the values due to the lenghthy print lead time. Same for Ike Davis. But thats not their fault.

 

[magicpapa]

if it wasnt for beckett, none of us would be here

 

[Austin]

Does anyone else think that the Beckett Price guide is an absolute JOKE??? A card is not WORTH what Beckett says it is worth. A card is worth what it is selling for on the open market!

 

[G $MONEY$]

Many, many, many people also dont realize or know how to use the Beckett correctly either. They just look at the Beckett high value and call that the BV. Beckett is really a range of prices, Low range to high range. If you look at BVs from the range, you will find that more times than not, Beckett is pretty darn close or right on to Ebay values within their ranges (usually to the Low range). Then you will go to card shows and you will see most dealers are pricing their cards in the mid to high range of BV and then you go to a shop and you will find cards are priced to the high range. But yes, use the Beckett ranges from low to high instead of just calling the high value as book value and you will find that Beckett is really not that far off on as many prices as you think.

 

[yankeesfan24]

Does anyone else think that the Beckett Price guide is an absolute JOKE??? A card is not WORTH what Beckett says it is worth. A card is worth what it is selling for on the open market!

thanked :lol:

 

[predatorkj]

If its up to ebay prices, then every common card is worth at least $1.00

Nah...$3.99 if you include shipping.

This is actually something I was going to bring up the other day. A lot the time...if you buy any card on ebay...its still going to cost you in the neighborhood of $3-$4. So people might say "Oh...well that is shipping. Its a part of the deal. It doesn't mean that the card is worth $3 or whatever.". Yet they paid $3 to get the card. So is the card worth $3 to you or not? Cause I gotta say...if you're paying $3 to get the card...obviously it is.


I think beckett can be a joke but like an above poster said...it depends on the card really. With rare cards or low numbered cards...we can all figure out a somewhat decent price range for them. But for a physical price guide to be able to do so is hard. And ebay, like the above poster said, is just way too complicated to accurately price cards. There are just too many factors.

 

[predatorkj]

About ebay prices, I've heard the argument that it's the best out there as it's "the most someone is willing to pay".

However, this is not true. When you see an ended auction and assuming there are multiple bidders, you are only seeing the most the second bidder is willing to pay.

No...you are seeing what a few online bidders were willing to pay. Not what an actual average of all people in the hobby would be willing to pay. Its like I always say...here in Houston...the astros are top sellers. Yet try selling a Bagwell card up in say...Chicago. You won't realize the same price. And its not accurate to go by one or the other so all you can do is have an average. In all reality there is no real price for cards. We make them up as we go. And the price you know and understand as real...is only the price that you think is right.

 

[predatorkj]

there is a major parallel between my profession (auto industry) and the cardboard business.

in the car business there are a few "books" to value your car. there is kbb, nada, and edmunds. in cards there is beckett and tuff stuff (tuff stuff which i recommend never reading or buying). each of these publications takes what dealers report to them as prices and declare an average per car or card. they break it down to the "parallels" by equipment group on the car or border of the card. many people use them as a guide to determine whether or not they can afford to buy or trade for a new one or sell their old one. however what many buyers are unaware of is that there is an auction report (mmr in cars, ebay in cards) that tells us what those same cars and cards run through the auction for... or the wholesale report. this usually has cars running through that go for a portion of book up to above book. same with cards they can run through at a percentage of book or a value greater than book... these auctions are a great place for dealers to secure their inventory and purchase cars and cards where they can make a profit on the primary market! however many of the dealers customers still rely on those "books" to gauge the deal they are getting.

all of the books produced in either field are a great tool for gathering information! yet they will never dictate what someone has paid for a car/card nor will it dictate what someone will/can sell the car/card for. yet nada, kbb, beckett are all read by a great percentage of the people out there and can be found at any dealer!

i dont think beckett is a joke i think beckett provides a great tool to collectors when it comes to making some information available, a database (while difficult to manipulate), and a starting point on price for many of the people in the hobby! their message boards however are pure quit swearing

Spot on! Post thanked!

 

[miguelcabrera]

+1 eBay IMO generally shouldn't be used as a price guide for the rarest stuff, particularly with BINs.

About ebay prices, I've heard the argument that it's the best out there as it's "the most someone is willing to pay".

However, this is not true. When you see an ended auction and assuming there are multiple bidders, you are only seeing the most the second bidder is willing to pay.

But then again isnt this why beckett doesnt price cards numbered 25 or less. They are too hard to gauge the price of. I can agree with that, but then beckett is so far off base on cards with a print run of 25 or more. I too would love to see a price guide for real sales, but do without the rare cards.

 

[predatorkj]

I go by what I want to pay for something. No Beckett, no eBay. As others have said before me, I will pay what I think is fair OR, if it's something I have to have, I'll go bonkers.

Now, let me check a '98 Donruss Crusade Red Juan Encarnacion in my newest '99 Tuff Stuff ...

Also spot on. When I go to buy a card...I want the best card I can find for the cheapest price. I myself determine what that is. Not beckett or ebay. But I can judge by using both to a degree as to what I will be looking at having to pay which in turn lets me know if I am currently in the market for the card. If an A-rod rookie books for $50 and currently sells on average of about $35 on ebay...I know I am going to have to pay anywhere from $25-$40 for one. This in turn allows me to make the decision of whether or not I feel like paying that kind of money. If I decide to...then I pay and get the card.

 

[predatorkj]

Does anyone else think that the Beckett Price guide is an absolute JOKE??? A card is not WORTH what Beckett says it is worth. A card is worth what it is selling for on the open market! When you can buy a card that books for $100 for $10 on Ebay... the card is not worth $100. These jokers crack me up putting all of their BIN prices at listed Beckett value. Just had to vent a little bit. I would love to see an actual price guide that listed the values of cards based on what they were selling for at the current time. Any other thoughts on this, have at it!!!!

Price guides are just that, a guide. A card can sell for $200 one month and $50 the next.

That sort of price change (up or down) rarely happens without some sort of drastic outside interference, like a player getting hot or something else happening. People who say that eBay prices are unreliable are correct, because on ebay (and in life) something is only worth as much as someone else will pay for it at that moment. Value has never been a static enough number for collectors to demand it stay in one place for any period of time. If it sells for 200 one day, its worth 200 at that point. If it sells for 50 another day, its worth 50 at that point. You know why? Because that's how much someone would pay for it. It has nothing to do with some hat drawn number that some person in texas puts on it.

Despite my above feelings, that isnt even the biggest problem. The biggest problem is the unrealistic view that the price guide presents to people. People come back to the hobby to look up all the cards they have stashed in their closet and see that they should be able to get $XXXX dollars for their cards when really its only $XX dollars. How would that make you feel? People criticize me for being overly pessimistic, but how about Beckett refusing to address any of the negative things at all? Its the same thing, and the price guide is a part of it.

In addition to the obvious problems, what about all the other conflicts of interest the guide presents? Im not going to get into all of that stuff, ill be here typing for an hour.

At this point, I just sit back with my feelings about Beckett and avoid the clueless people who thump their guides like the bible.

Amen to that. I have seen this plenty of times and I have seen it actually seen it turn people away. Some people can handle the truth...others can't. Just depends. Its why I knew damn good and well that if I got back in...I'd do it for personal fun and never intend to sell my collection. The only way you can sell a collection these days and actually gain on it is if you are really lucky(which doesn't happen often) or unless you collect with the intention to sell for a profit. I don't plan on getting lucky and I don't enjoy collecting in the way I'd need to to turn a profit. So to hell with it. I know the score and I also know that unless I change my entire focus...I'll always be on the losing end of the deal. But I simply like the hobby enough not to care.

I have actually seen a guy come into a shop and buy a price guide. He also picked out some other cards and purchased them because he was going to start collecting again. Then the dude stands there for a minute and starts looking through the guide. I knew exactly what he was doing and exactly what was coming next. He then asks the shop owner about some "old baseball cards" he has from the 80's and how much he would give him for a few of the sets and singles. Shop owner shakes his head and says he can't even use them as they are worth nothing and he already has a ton of it in his back room. The customer gets this look on his face like he was punched in the balls and then he looks over at the cards he just bought. Yep...I don't think he's still in the hobby any more. But maybe. Who knows.