Why Does Everyone Bitch About Leaf?

[tattooelement]

As someone who has yet to purchase a BG owned Leaf product opinions:

The customer service/availability of BG should be commended. Anytime you can take a suggestion, or complaint, to the owner of a business and be actually listened to is great for both parties. Props to BG on being aware of this.

My biggest complaint of their products, as a prospective buyer, is some of the copycat type cards. The red auto/ref /5 and superfractor /1 are obviously a Topps staple/identifier. Would be nice to see Leaf create a unique parallel that is their own to use in their products.

So, basically I would like to see them create their own identity and grow upon it instead of seeing other companies signature cards released by Leaf.

Best of luck BG. Hope you do well and push others to do better.

 

[sportscardtheory]

As someone who has yet to purchase a BG owned Leaf product opinions:

The customer service/availability of BG should be commended. Anytime you can take a suggestion, or complaint, to the owner of a business and be actually listened to is great for both parties. Props to BG on being aware of this.

My biggest complaint of their products, as a prospective buyer, is some of the copycat type cards. The red auto/ref /5 and superfractor /1 are obviously a Topps staple/identifier. Would be nice to see Leaf create a unique parallel that is their own to use in their products.

So, basically I would like to see them create their own identity and grow upon it instead of seeing other companies signature cards released by Leaf.

Best of luck BG. Hope you do well and push others to do better.

The problem with that is, then he would have people complaining that he isn't doing what they asked for. People WANTED those similarities and openly ASKED him to do them that way. People WANTED a chrome-like set. People WANTED the refractor-like inserts. They WANTED the Crusades-type set. They WANTED the superfractor-like insert. They asked for all of this, and that's what Brian did. I have seen him actively change things about his sets before release to appease the "masses" here. What more can he do? He's doing on-card autos because many asked for it. He's doing a prospect set because many asked for it. All of what he is doing/has done people asked for. He simply can't win no matter what he does, so I say just keep doing whatever. All we can do is constructively criticize and see what happens.

 

[ChasHawk]

Why is it so wrong to not like something/someone?

I think Ali Metal and Rose look great. I don't like Draft or Valiant.

Why is that a problem?

What if some people just don't like Brian or his products, or hold a grudge from the Razor debacle?

Why is this such a HUGE problem for so many people here?

Why are you a hater if you don't like something?

What is the point of this board if people can't express their opinions, positive AND negative?

Pretty sure no one is against others disliking a product and/or company and speaking their mind about it. It's the flaming of another member (Brian) that gets on mine and maybe others' nerves. He's a member here just like everyone else and the personal attacks should not be happening, as they are not allowed towards any members. Too many of these people attack Brian and not the product, which is uncalled-for. Yes, Brian bites back sometimes, but he's defending himself and his products, which I understand. I would go about it differently, but I do understand it. As for "defending" products, people have as much right to do so as you have to trash them, so what is your problem with people also speaking their opinions. Are we only allowed yours.

never said I had a problem

my bitch is that anyone who has a dissenting opinion is immediately labeled a "hater" by many on this board

by the way, whatever your problem is with twingnats, its making you really petty and bad

 

[matchpenalty]

Everybody here is a wanna be card executive. Everyone loves to bitch and moan and say what it could be like in their duckies and bunnies card world. Where everything is all warm and fuzzy. Everybody breaks a box and makes money. Every auto is on card and done perfect. Every card is perfectly centered with razor sharp corners and grades a BGS 10 every time. Blah blah blah.

 

[sportscardtheory]

Why is it so wrong to not like something/someone?

I think Ali Metal and Rose look great. I don't like Draft or Valiant.

Why is that a problem?

What if some people just don't like Brian or his products, or hold a grudge from the Razor debacle?

Why is this such a HUGE problem for so many people here?

Why are you a hater if you don't like something?

What is the point of this board if people can't express their opinions, positive AND negative?

Pretty sure no one is against others disliking a product and/or company and speaking their mind about it. It's the flaming of another member (Brian) that gets on mine and maybe others' nerves. He's a member here just like everyone else and the personal attacks should not be happening, as they are not allowed towards any members. Too many of these people attack Brian and not the product, which is uncalled-for. Yes, Brian bites back sometimes, but he's defending himself and his products, which I understand. I would go about it differently, but I do understand it. As for "defending" products, people have as much right to do so as you have to trash them, so what is your problem with people also speaking their opinions. Are we only allowed yours.

never said I had a problem

my bitch is that anyone who has a dissenting opinion is immediately labeled a "hater" by many on this board

by the way, whatever your problem is with twingnats, its making you really petty and bad

You really think I care that me responding to someone who personally attacks me when I disagree with their opinions makes me "look bad"? lol Sorry, not in the least. Anyone who subjectively reads the back-and-forth between him and I should be able to see that he's nothing but a whiny little kid with unintelligent opinions. You have a problem with me for some reason, so of course you'll side with the whiny little brat, especially since you two have similar takes. I don't care about what anyone thinks of me on a message board, let-alone some whiny little brats with little to no knowledge of this hobby.

 

[ChasHawk]

Why is it so wrong to not like something/someone?

I think Ali Metal and Rose look great. I don't like Draft or Valiant.

Why is that a problem?

What if some people just don't like Brian or his products, or hold a grudge from the Razor debacle?

Why is this such a HUGE problem for so many people here?

Why are you a hater if you don't like something?

What is the point of this board if people can't express their opinions, positive AND negative?

Pretty sure no one is against others disliking a product and/or company and speaking their mind about it. It's the flaming of another member (Brian) that gets on mine and maybe others' nerves. He's a member here just like everyone else and the personal attacks should not be happening, as they are not allowed towards any members. Too many of these people attack Brian and not the product, which is uncalled-for. Yes, Brian bites back sometimes, but he's defending himself and his products, which I understand. I would go about it differently, but I do understand it. As for "defending" products, people have as much right to do so as you have to trash them, so what is your problem with people also speaking their opinions. Are we only allowed yours.

never said I had a problem

my bitch is that anyone who has a dissenting opinion is immediately labeled a "hater" by many on this board

by the way, whatever your problem is with twingnats, its making you really petty and bad

You really think I care that me responding to someone who personally attacks me when I disagree with their opinions makes me "look bad"? lol Sorry, not in the least. Anyone who subjectively reads the back-and-forth between him and I should be able to see that he's nothing but a whiny little kid with unintelligent opinions. You have a problem with me for some reason, so of course you'll side with the whiny little brat, especially since you two have similar takes. I don't care about what anyone thinks of me on a message board, let-alone some whiny little brats with little to no knowledge of this hobby.

I'm not siding with him and don't care about his "take"

I just think you need to be the bigger person...what you do with that is up to you.

I await your snarky response...

 

[sportscardtheory]

Why is it so wrong to not like something/someone?

I think Ali Metal and Rose look great. I don't like Draft or Valiant.

Why is that a problem?

What if some people just don't like Brian or his products, or hold a grudge from the Razor debacle?

Why is this such a HUGE problem for so many people here?

Why are you a hater if you don't like something?

What is the point of this board if people can't express their opinions, positive AND negative?

Pretty sure no one is against others disliking a product and/or company and speaking their mind about it. It's the flaming of another member (Brian) that gets on mine and maybe others' nerves. He's a member here just like everyone else and the personal attacks should not be happening, as they are not allowed towards any members. Too many of these people attack Brian and not the product, which is uncalled-for. Yes, Brian bites back sometimes, but he's defending himself and his products, which I understand. I would go about it differently, but I do understand it. As for "defending" products, people have as much right to do so as you have to trash them, so what is your problem with people also speaking their opinions. Are we only allowed yours.

never said I had a problem

my bitch is that anyone who has a dissenting opinion is immediately labeled a "hater" by many on this board

by the way, whatever your problem is with twingnats, its making you really petty and bad

You really think I care that me responding to someone who personally attacks me when I disagree with their opinions makes me "look bad"? lol Sorry, not in the least. Anyone who subjectively reads the back-and-forth between him and I should be able to see that he's nothing but a whiny little kid with unintelligent opinions. You have a problem with me for some reason, so of course you'll side with the whiny little brat, especially since you two have similar takes. I don't care about what anyone thinks of me on a message board, let-alone some whiny little brats with little to no knowledge of this hobby.

I'm not siding with him and don't care about his "take"

I just think you need to be the bigger person...what you do with that is up to you.

I await your snarky response...

What you should be waiting for is his response to my response to you.

 

[bballcardkid]

My biggest complaint of their products, as a prospective buyer, is some of the copycat type cards. The red auto/ref /5 and superfractor /1 are obviously a Topps staple/identifier. Would be nice to see Leaf create a unique parallel that is their own to use in their products.

This isn't a complaint of mine, as I actually welcome the retro site idea if done right, but I definately agree with the idea that Leaf should come up with some of it's own concepts going forward, and I think they have (just need more of it). What I'm about to say might sound idiotic because it wouldn't be an original idea, but I would like to see the Metal release have parallels that look more like the PMG parallels from Fleer Metal (not the PMG's from Metal Universe with the stupid swirls, I'm talking the actual red and green metal finishes from the regular Metal). It doesn't have to be an exact copy, but something along those lines. This is where I guess I'm going: Fleer Ultra had platinum medallion parallels that were a staple for that product. Fleer Skybox had Star Rubies that were staples for that product. Metal had PMG's. Chrome has it's refractors. Stadium Club had First Day Issues. SPX had Spectrum parallels (that honestly sucked outside of 1998 Finite). I'd like to see Leaf do something along those lines for it's products; something that looks ridiculously awesome, and would be something that Leaf could call it's own.


As far as bitching, I mean, there's a lot of ******* on the boards, what do you expect them to do but -bleep-.

 

[Wes]

I for one will be more than happy to state and opinion that I like a product that leaf makes if they every make a decent product that is nice looking or interesting or fun to collect.

So your criteria for a "decent product" is whether or not you like it? That doesn't seem at all ridiculous to you? I don't like or collect basketball cards, does that mean that a "decent product" has never been produced in the genre?

 

[notjomommasclint]

I bitch about things I don't agree with, don't like, or that fail to make sense to me. I'm more vocal about my dislikes than my likes. If I like something I don't fluff it up and expect you to ride it. I spend my money on it. It doesn't need a thread For me to be happy. When I don't like something I go vocal.

some of the hate isnt hate some of it is valid input that gets blasted because it goes against popular belief. Some of it is blind hate based on a previous experience or bg. it's a trick bag...

I personally do not spend my money on leaf from hobby or on the secondary market because of a single statement made to me about the price point of leafs products being beyond my means. Which could have had two possible outcomes. 1. I could rush out and prove him wrong 2. I could spend my funds on something else. I choose 2!!!

I think the recycling of cards and lack of creativity blow but that's an industry standard now. That said I like the Ali stuff and if Tyson would ever get like set I would probably break the bank.

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

"Why Does Everyone Bitch About Leaf?"

There are different reasons why people complain. For some people, complaining comes forth out of a true sense of unhappiness. They are unhappy about themselves or about their lives and they express this by complaining to others about their bad fortune. When people are that unhappy it does not really matter what happens in their lives, because they will always find something to complain about. They need to complain, because for them it is a way of coping with their unhappiness that they have learned is effective.

People do not only complain incessantly because they are unhappy, for some complainers it is more of a bad habit that they have picked up. These are the kind of people who either just need to complain for no good reason, or they are so used to complaining all the time that they do not even notice that they are doing it. You can recognize them by their casual way of complaining. They might walk into your house and mention that traffic was a nightmare, the weather sucks, they are not feeling too well and that something in your house smells funny.

A final reason why some people complain a lot is because it makes them feel better. These people are not necessarily unhappy people, but by complaining about every little thing that bothers them, they actually feel better. In other words, they burden other people with all their problems and worries, making those people feel bad, while they in turn end up feeling great. There is nothing wrong with complaining, we all need to do it now and again, but the trick is to not over do it. The last thing you want is to end up being known as one of those people who complains about everything.

http://www.helium.com/items/952751-why- ... everything

 

[TwinGnats]

That is correct. There has never been a basketball product that was good enough to make you crack open your wallet, so to you that would be a truthful statement. The problem is, I do collect baseball and Leaf has yet to produce a decent set. Just because other people like something doesn't make it good. I have never once told anyone what they should do with their money or how to collect. I am making my statements in thread about the junk products that Leaf make as participation in this forum.

I fail to see why this concept is so difficult to understand. That and I'm unhappy and it make me feel better according the the psychologists of FCB.

I for one will be more than happy to state and opinion that I like a product that leaf makes if they every make a decent product that is nice looking or interesting or fun to collect.

So your criteria for a "decent product" is whether or not you like it? That doesn't seem at all ridiculous to you? I don't like or collect basketball cards, does that mean that a "decent product" has never been produced in the genre?

 

[markakis8]

My opinion that Leaf has not made a good product yet and your opinion that they have made good products are indeed not facts. They are opinions and cannot be proven by rule.

Did Leaf make the movie? Then I probably didn't see it.

[quote="TwinGnats":35ad3wf5]Normally calm people don't need to reassure themselves that they are calm, especially to the point where they rank their calmness in relations to other people. Hope you have a better day.

Clearly this kid isn't into movie quotes. That's okay though. Who cares.

"Der der der, the Nationals and Twins SUCK! They are truly two of the most awful teams in existence. I didn't watch one game from either of them, because they SUCK and aren't worth a second of my time, der der der!"

Imagine if I really did post garbage like that. lol That's what you sound like with your hatred of a trading card company. It's quite pathetic and not based in any fact, but pure hyperbolic hate.

Leaf's 2011 football draft products weren't a success? What planet are you on.[/quote:35ad3wf5]

In his defense, he said "good" product, not "successful" product. It means he has not liked any product Razor/Leaf has put out regardless of its sales.

 

[markakis8]

I bitch about things I don't agree with, don't like, or that fail to make sense to me. I'm more vocal about my dislikes than my likes. If I like something I don't fluff it up and expect you to ride it. I spend my money on it. It doesn't need a thread For me to be happy. When I don't like something I go vocal.

some of the hate isnt hate some of it is valid input that gets blasted because it goes against popular belief. Some of it is blind hate based on a previous experience or bg. it's a trick bag...

I personally do not spend my money on leaf from hobby or on the secondary market because of a single statement made to me about the price point of leafs products being beyond my means. Which could have had two possible outcomes. 1. I could rush out and prove him wrong 2. I could spend my funds on something else. I choose 2!!!

I think the recycling of cards and lack of creativity blow but that's an industry standard now. That said I like the Ali stuff and if Tyson would ever get like set I would probably break the bank.

you lost me at "bitch" you sexy stud

 

[markakis8]

That is correct. There has never been a basketball product that was good enough to make you crack open your wallet, so to you that would be a truthful statement. The problem is, I do collect baseball and Leaf has yet to produce a decent set. Just because other people like something doesn't make it good. I have never once told anyone what they should do with their money or how to collect. I am making my statements in thread about the junk products that Leaf make as participation in this forum.

I fail to see why this concept is so difficult to understand. That and I'm unhappy and it make me feel better according the the psychologists of FCB.

I for one will be more than happy to state and opinion that I like a product that leaf makes if they every make a decent product that is nice looking or interesting or fun to collect.

So your criteria for a "decent product" is whether or not you like it? That doesn't seem at all ridiculous to you? I don't like or collect basketball cards, does that mean that a "decent product" has never been produced in the genre?

You can't use "the" twice in a row. It makes you you look stupid.

 

[sportscardtheory]

My opinion that Leaf has not made a good product yet and your opinion that they have made good products are indeed not facts. They are opinions and cannot be proven by rule.

Did Leaf make the movie? Then I probably didn't see it.

[quote="sportscardtheory":33ytflo5][quote="TwinGnats":33ytflo5]Normally calm people don't need to reassure themselves that they are calm, especially to the point where they rank their calmness in relations to other people. Hope you have a better day.

Clearly this kid isn't into movie quotes. That's okay though. Who cares.

"Der der der, the Nationals and Twins SUCK! They are truly two of the most awful teams in existence. I didn't watch one game from either of them, because they SUCK and aren't worth a second of my time, der der der!"

Imagine if I really did post garbage like that. lol That's what you sound like with your hatred of a trading card company. It's quite pathetic and not based in any fact, but pure hyperbolic hate.

Leaf's 2011 football draft products weren't a success? What planet are you on.[/quote:33ytflo5]

In his defense, he said "good" product, not "successful" product. It means he has not liked any product Razor/Leaf has put out regardless of its sales.[/quote:33ytflo5]

Any idiot can go around proclaiming anything as not "good". It doesn't make it a reality. The word good doesn't mean "what I like". If this kid didn't "like" Michael Jordan, does that mean Michael Jordan wasn't "good".

 

[Hendersonfan]

Any logical person knows that you can't please everyone. It's even harder to do so when your resources are limited (no license). So BG is doing the best he can with what he has to work with. People are complaining about SP's. I understand that partially. But would you rather have the card SP (Leaf) or dropped completely (Topps). Also, about the Metal looking like Crusades.....wasn't that a hugely popular set? So he is trying to capitalize on what people like by recreating a similar hot product? I don't buy Leaf products at the moment only because Rickey isn't in them, but if he were I would. I do like the Rose set a lot. I think BG is doing a great job trying to give us collector's what we want. If you can only please part of the crowd, doesn't it make sense to aim for the majority? Since none of us are in his shoes and don't know exactly what is going on, I'm sure there are many things can happen to change the way things turn out. I think the Ichiro replacement was pretty good because he asked what people would like. What other company does that? People don't like stickers on the card. Maybe the player can't sign the cards after they are made (scheduling) or something else. So in order to get the cards made this is what he has to do. I'm sure on-card is his 1st option.

Rickey is in our upcoming "Legends of Sport". BG

Wow, I posted this before work and came home to 7 pages! I had to stop reading when I saw this!

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

My opinion that Leaf has not made a good product yet and your opinion that they have made good products are indeed not facts. They are opinions and cannot be proven by rule.

[quote="TwinGnats":uw3sr30p]Did Leaf make the movie? Then I probably didn't see it.

[quote="sportscardtheory":uw3sr30p][quote="TwinGnats":uw3sr30p]Normally calm people don't need to reassure themselves that they are calm, especially to the point where they rank their calmness in relations to other people. Hope you have a better day.

Clearly this kid isn't into movie quotes. That's okay though. Who cares.

"Der der der, the Nationals and Twins SUCK! They are truly two of the most awful teams in existence. I didn't watch one game from either of them, because they SUCK and aren't worth a second of my time, der der der!"

Imagine if I really did post garbage like that. lol That's what you sound like with your hatred of a trading card company. It's quite pathetic and not based in any fact, but pure hyperbolic hate.

Leaf's 2011 football draft products weren't a success? What planet are you on.[/quote:uw3sr30p]

In his defense, he said "good" product, not "successful" product. It means he has not liked any product Razor/Leaf has put out regardless of its sales.[/quote:uw3sr30p]

Any idiot can go around proclaiming anything as not "good". It doesn't make it a reality. The word good doesn't mean "what I like". If this kid didn't "like" Michael Jordan, does that mean Michael Jordan wasn't "good".[/quote:uw3sr30p]

Holy crap, go change your tampon.

Any idiot knows (or should know) that when someone says something is not "good", they are speaking their own sentiments and not those of the world's population.

 

[TomMurry]

I do collect baseball and Leaf has yet to produce a decent set. Just because other people like something doesn't make it good. I have never once told anyone what they should do with their money or how to collect. I am making my statements in thread about the junk products that Leaf make as participation in this forum.

Your OPINION is that they have yet to produce a decent set. This is not a fact.
Just because you DON'T like something doesn't make it bad. Again, your OPINION.
Calling Leaf junk is your OPINION.

I don't see how YOU don't understand. Its not a difficult concept. You're more than entitled to feel how you do, but throwing it around as fact makes you look uninformed at best, closely followed by unintelligent.

 

[James52411]

If everyone's thoughts about the quality of Leaf's products are mere sentiments or personal opinions that have no relationship to a truth claim, then there is no point in discussing the matter. It is like arguing with someone who says "I like Coca-Cola" by telling them that they do not. You can argue why they should not like Coca Cola for certain reasons, but then you are in the realm of evaluating Coke against standards of what constitutes something being "good." Either you argue the objective merits of the Leaf products against a standard to determine if they are good or you should stop arguing because people are merely stating that they like or dislike Leaf products, and it is silly to tell them that they are wrong.