WTF!!!! FAKE 1997 UPPER DECK LEGENDS WALTER PAYTON AUTOS!

[Daltonb1219]

you guys are dumb. someone fakes a patch card and it mine as well be on the news with the way you guys react. yet someone clearly fakes walter payton ($2000) autographs and nobody cares. this site use to be good. no wonder it has lost half of its traffic.

Yea says the guy with 84 post in like 5 months. ::facepalm::

 

[Viking4Alpha]

Whether or not the guy is right, I don't care. You don't speak to people with that amount of hubris and expect them to take you seriously. If he's right, good. Next time drop the ego and take people messing w/ you a little bit and you won't look like such an ass.

This is EXACTLY how I felt.

It was the principle of it. Like I said before, I personally wouldn't buy that card with the number of Payton autos I've previously owned. It's just not cool to bust in here like a dick and when people question you as the source since (no offense) but you are a nobody on this board. cardcrazy, no one knows you or how credible you are.

 

[mastakollection]

mastacollection what is up?

Gellman why you did disappear after the post on your blog and Mastakollection shows up. . Man you have become thoughtless in your blog. Just take posts from forums and fill them full of swear words so you can live up to your so called reputation. Let me guess you will let UD feed you another line like they did with the ultimate inscriptions. UD yes man/spin doctor will let us know :lol:

Wait, what? This is an issue DEFINITELY worth posting about. Just because you guys are buds, doesnt mean that the topic isnt worth discussing. The cards are fake, as stated by numerous posters in this thread, and by PSA, so I dont understand why it is not in my best interest to inform as many people as possible of this probable deception.

Honestly, if you dont think something is wrong with those signatures, you have problems with your eyes. As a seller who has the reputation that I guess he has, he should have understood this situation before A) buying the cards and B) willingly selling the cards. Its a bad situation, and you have no right to tell me that I was wrong for reporting it.

Besides, if UD wants to feed me a line on these cards, I will relay that line as usual. For some reason giving you the information from UD has become an issue, and I just do not get why. I never say that it has to be true, I just say "this is what UD said." There shouldnt be any problem with that, and there is no reason for you to chastise me for relaying the comments of the people who made the fracking cards.

With as many cards/cards/coins/PM's/etc that come into my hands I honestly didn't even look at the signature until someone brought it to my attention. When i bought the card all i looked for was that it had the correct back on the card CERTIFYING the auto. I have had a few of these black ink autos so i didn't even think that their were fakes out their with the correct back of the card. There was NO DECEPTION, i wasent trying to scam anyone out of money or buying a fake card, even if i ended up losing my money on it i wouldn't try to pass it as something authentic unless it was. HOWEVER some guy, who no one knows, comes on here and says they are fake with no proof is supposed to be deemed as the source of legitimate information? As soon as it came to my attention that it may not be authentic i took down the auction and informed the parties interested in the card. Forget the numerous posters who said its fake because that means NOTHING, if jsa or psa said it was real then then what? It was only deemed fake until i sent it to psa, not from any posters help. Does not matter either way i am just glad that no one bought them that will get screwed out of the money. I think its all the way back to the source here now. The issue here now is not weather or not they are fake its what is going to be done about it. These have been out forever and many people still have them in their PC. What will UD do? Beckett? AS daveyou posted he has had them graded, with 10 autos.

 

[wheeler281]

mastacollection what is up?

Gellman why you did disappear after the post on your blog and Mastakollection shows up. . Man you have become thoughtless in your blog. Just take posts from forums and fill them full of swear words so you can live up to your so called reputation. Let me guess you will let UD feed you another line like they did with the ultimate inscriptions. UD yes man/spin doctor will let us know :lol:

Wait, what? This is an issue DEFINITELY worth posting about. Just because you guys are buds, doesnt mean that the topic isnt worth discussing. The cards are fake, as stated by numerous posters in this thread, and by PSA, so I dont understand why it is not in my best interest to inform as many people as possible of this probable deception.

Honestly, if you dont think something is wrong with those signatures, you have problems with your eyes. As a seller who has the reputation that I guess he has, he should have understood this situation before A) buying the cards and B) willingly selling the cards. Its a bad situation, and you have no right to tell me that I was wrong for reporting it.

Besides, if UD wants to feed me a line on these cards, I will relay that line as usual. For some reason giving you the information from UD has become an issue, and I just do not get why. I never say that it has to be true, I just say "this is what UD said." There shouldnt be any problem with that, and there is no reason for you to chastise me for relaying the comments of the people who made the fracking cards.

Yeah buds(if saying what is up defines buds tehn book me danno) that is the best you can do is spin it because I and a couple others as well as you know him from Beckett.
You really are hypocritical at times when it comes to UD. Who are the numerous posters BTW? The issue with UD is you have done a complete 180 with them after a rep started talking to you. You do remember your Beckett days right. You called them afraud?/ WOW how times have changed. They are the shadiest around. You believe everything they say for they are the makers of the cards and can do no wrong..Really really?? (except lie about the inscriptions, send loaded boxes shall I go on). I mean the Kool aide has filled you all the way up to your glasses.
You fell for the Pujols crap after that poster was proven wrong. Of course you blogged about that too with no factual knowledge(Just what you lifted off the forum) then never recinded. I did 2 quick opinions to PSA and got 2 different answers on the pujols .
The problem with society and people like you is you take what information you can twist to make your perception seem reality. When it is far from it. Why not wait to see how it turns out? Wait your theft of the topic could not wait to get to your blog. Go back to just spew and spew that everything not UD sucks not try to make something out of nothing.
He ended the auction till further evaluation is done. Too late though gents like you and cardcrazy go off the deep end. He even is like "someone should send this to Gellman" Talk about buds. Who has the agenda here...Maybe you and your bud can come up and steal some more topics..

BTW I never said they were real or otherwise.9pleasepoint to where I did) I am not educated on Payton autos so have no clue. Was just saying your blog again has another story with no factual knowledge except "we'll wait and see what UD says"... Also you disappeared when the seller in question showed up...Just a little self restraint till all the info is out would have been more prudent considering the history of everyone here has..

 

[Gellman]

With as many cards/cards/coins/PM's/etc that come into my hands I honestly didn't even look at the signature until someone brought it to my attention. When i bought the card all i looked for was that it had the correct back on the card CERTIFYING the auto. I have had a few of these black ink autos so i didn't even think that their were fakes out their with the correct back of the card. There was NO DECEPTION, i wasent trying to scam anyone out of money or buying a fake card, even if i ended up losing my money on it i wouldn't try to pass it as something authentic unless it was. HOWEVER some guy, who no one knows, comes on here and says they are fake with no proof is supposed to be deemed as the source of legitimate information? As soon as it came to my attention that it may not be authentic i took down the auction and informed the parties interested in the card. Forget the numerous posters who said its fake because that means NOTHING, if jsa or psa said it was real then then what? It was only deemed fake until i sent it to psa, not from any posters help. Does not matter either way i am just glad that no one bought them that will get screwed out of the money. I think its all the way back to the source here now. The issue here now is not weather or not they are fake its what is going to be done about it. These have been out forever and many people still have them in their PC. What will UD do? Beckett? AS daveyou posted he has had them graded, with 10 autos.

Thank you for taking them down, Im glad you did. Now, to say that no one knew these were fake until they went to PSA is crap. These cards have no discernable resemblance to any Payton autograph. I did a lot of research when I was going to buy a Payton for myself, and I would never touch cards like this. The fact is, not a single person who knows Payton's signature would have bought or sold these without some sort of question. At least you took them down, which is more than we can say for any of the other douches who sell fakes on a daily basis.

Yeah buds(if saying what is up defines buds tehn book me danno) that is the best you can do is spin it because I and a couple others as well as you know him from Beckett.
You really are hypocritical at times when it comes to UD. Who are the numerous posters BTW? The issue with UD is you have done a complete 180 with them after a rep started talking to you. You do remember your Beckett days right. You called them afraud?/ WOW how times have changed. They are the shadiest around. You believe everything they say for they are the makers of the cards and can do no wrong..Really really?? (except lie about the inscriptions, send loaded boxes shall I go on). I mean the Kool aide has filled you all the way up to your glasses.

Wheeler, I called them a fraud at the time because they were. The issue was that they make the best products for football in my opinion, and after I got an explanation from the brand manager, things definitely changed. They stopped sending boxes to Beckett, they became more receptive to what we were saying, and they acted with a lot of respect when answering the questions of people on the net. Im sorry if you do not feel that way, but that is the way I feel. I still mention those boxes when I talk about the box stuff, and I called them out when they started sending boxes to Beckett again this year. They are not infallible, but they do a lot of stuff right to offset some of the bad stuff. To top that off, they were the only company that had no problem taking interviews without a limit. I interviewed Prusha, and every other question, he dodged. He wouldnt talk about half the stuff I wanted to know, where Gregg Kohn of UD answered every single thing I threw at him, even if the answer didnt put UD in a favorable light. If there is something you want to ask him, Im sure you could use your "inside source" to get his answer.

The problem with society and people like you is you take what information you can twist to make your perception seem reality. When it is far from it. Why not wait to see how it turns out? Wait your theft of the topic could not wait to get to your blog. Go back to just spew and spew that everything not UD sucks not try to make something out of nothing. He ended the auction till further evaluation is done. Too late though gents like you and cardcrazy go off the deep end. He even is like "someone should send this to Gellman" Talk about buds. Who has the agenda here...Maybe you and your bud can come up and steal some more topics..

I didnt twist anything, I just said that the cards looked fake, which they are. There is nothing to wait on, the cards arent real, and I explained my thoughts on how it happened. Now, if you want to accuse me of stealing things from the forum, thats fine, because this place does give me some ideas. Yet if you notice, I mentioned each time that it was from FCB, never crediting myself with finding any of it. Besides, I didnt know there was a rule about where news comes from, I thought FCB was just as much fair game as any - Chris would surely agree.

As for saying that I am making something out of nothing, you are completely incorrect, because this is definitely something. I will report on any something I come across, even if it makes UD look like ****. I dont care, as long as it is news. Personally, I love how you think I am a UD "yes man" because I like their products. You know what? Im not the only one who says that UD makes the best looking football products on the market, yet for some reason that makes me their stooge. I regularly talk about my love for the low end Topps products this year, as well as how much I liked Panini products of years past, but no one seems to look past the fact that I love UD products. Did you see how much I posted on the fact that Topps leaving sucks? No? Well, you know what? I do love UD products because they are all the best designed, even for the crap products like signature edition. They dont rehash designs and use foilboard like Panini, and they dont use horribly stupid diecuts and build their stickers into the cards like high end Topps. Instead they use hard signed signatures with really cool designs, and I know that even you like those.

BTW I never said they were real or otherwise.9pleasepoint to where I did) I am not educated on Payton autos so have no clue. Was just saying your blog again has another story with no factual knowledge except "we'll wait and see what UD says"... Also you disappeared when the seller in question showed up...Just a little self restraint till all the info is out would have been more prudent considering the history of everyone here has..

I am not on the forums 24/7, so I didnt see when the seller came. I have a baby on the way and I work all week, so I cant monitor everything that happens. Its not fair to say "I disappeared" because I didnt post right after he got here to talk. As soon as I saw he did, I paid attention again. For the record, I said "I would like to see what UD says" because I would like to see if they had an explanation. You wouldnt like to hear? I find that pretty biased yourself. Even if they feed us or me a line, it would still be interesting to hear.

Wheeler, if you dont like the way I handle the reporting on the blog, feel free to stop reading. All I did was report on something that I felt needed reporting on. I thought, and still think, the cards were fake, and therefore, I talked about it in that perspective. I know Payton, unlike you yourself said you do not, and those arent real. There is not a question in my mind.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have family stuff to get to, and may not be back for a few days. Dont take that as me "disappearing."

 

[Daltonb1219]

:shock: :shock:
damn thats alot of words

 

[jeff550]

:shock: :shock:
damn thats alot of words

dont worry dalton. i could find time to read the entire thing ethier

 

[mastakollection]

Thank you for taking them down, Im glad you did. Now, to say that no one knew these were fake until they went to PSA is crap. These cards have no discernable resemblance to any Payton autograph. I did a lot of research when I was going to buy a Payton for myself, and I would never touch cards like this. The fact is, not a single person who knows Payton's signature would have bought or sold these without some sort of question. At least you took them down, which is more than we can say for any of the other douches who sell fakes on a daily basis.


After 12 years why is this coming to the surface now? yes they look different, yes they dont look like his normal signature. Why is beckett grading them? Why has it taken THIS LONG for anyone to say anything about them? These identical cards have been bought and sold for the last 7 years at least. I figured since nothing was said previously, since beckett grades them, and since they have been selling for over 7-12 years already that they were legit. You can take it however you want but when i purchased the cards i never thought for a second they were fake. Why would i spend 950 on a fake card to turn around and screw someone to make 100.00 profit, potentially get a charge back, bad feedback and a headache? Not worth it? Firstly you can see my feedback, you can talk to people who know me, i would never intentionally screw anyone. In fact of the 2 of these i had, i traded one away to a set collector who owns a blue ink, wanted the black ink variation, so if set collectors dont question the auto why would I? Anyway I contacted the guy and having him send it back obviously. If there is any doubt in my mind that im selling something fake, 1. i wouldnt purchase it in the first place and 2. i wouldnt try and sell it. I never questioned these, regardless of the difference in signatures and regardless of what you think. I was looking at them the same way i did when i sold them before, same black sharpie, same looking sig, same back, nothing was different from a year ago when i sold them to daveyou. If im coming off as rude, don't take it that way, hard to convey attitude on a message board. Anyway, I think im done with this. If you guys want to try and get something together to speak with UD or beckett to write a article or to inform buyers/sellers of these i would be more then happy to. Otherwise its just beating a dead horse.

 

[wheeler281]

Come on man you kow Payton as much as me. At least I had 2 in my posession. Like you are the king of the cardworld and a know all. I was referring to I have not studied his autos. Guess in your busy time you have LMAO

Gellman using the ole "I have a life outside of the forum" is a lame excuse for ducking people. Guess what I have 2 daughters(with multiple after school activites and a wife out of town 3 days a week being a pharmaceutical manager meaning on my own) a family 2 horses that need to be worked/trained everyday(by me) and a career but duck nobody at anytime. If you think you are busy now wait till the little one comes along This is nothing. You are not even at the dance yet. You will see what kind of self and time discipline you will need once you actually have things to do

That being said brother no hard feelings just thought you needed to use better judgement/self control. Knee jerk reporting gets you nowhere at the end of the day... I would love the day it ever happened to me

 

[G $MONEY$]

Why is beckett grading them?

Because BGS and PSA are just going with the COA on the back, they are just GRADING the card, not authenticating the autograph. If you want the autograph on a CERTIFIED company signed card authenticated (or any autograph really) you have to go through JSA/BGS or PSA/DNA (Like K&K's Payton). The regular BGS and PSA card graders are not autograph authenticators.

 

[dfr52]

I have been reading this thread for a few days and mastakollection has handled himself w/ class and professionalism.

 

[dfr52]

mastacollection what is up?

Gellman why you disappear after your post on your blog and Masta shows up. . Man you have become thoughtless in your blog. Just take posts from forums and fill them full of swear words so you can live up to your so called reputation. Let me guess you will let UD feed you another line like they did with the ultimate inscriptions. You are such a hypocrite it is funny.

Hey bud how are you? Same here cant complain.


Card_Crazy- Still waiting on that payment, however i will say this I dont doubt them either way, fake or real, to me its just hard to believe that after 12 years not one of them has been deemed "fake" and upper deck releasing any sort of statement about it. Even after the 10 year anniv issue they did, nothing was mentioned about the cards being fake etc. For the time being all i can say is that I believe they are real for all the reasons already discussed however, if deemed fake, LOTS of collectors are gunna throw fits, there are many of these out there. At least at this point i can still get my money back, collectors who have purchased these way back cant do anything about it are going to be screwed. Its sad that we cant even trust the card companies or beckett to authenticate and verify a card that has their COA on the back.

BTW- I ended it, so no one would buy it..just in case.

Hope he finally paid up since he threw the offer on the table.

 

[card_crazy]

hello all. in no way did i mean to cause a problem. i was just stating a point. I knew the card was a fake. so i said it. deal with it. it doesnt take a guy from psa or jsa to see that it wasnt walter paytons signature. but its funny how other people can determine whether a patch card is real or fake with out proof (at times). (WITH NO CREDENTIALS) or a photo shoot for that matter. its the same damn thing that i did. you guys say (thats not adrian peterson autograph, or its not matt ryans autograph ect.. thats EXACTLY what i did!

what ever. im not worried about that. i dont care if i had 1 post or 84 posts. and i wasnt trying to have a big ego. it was a point that i made. i new that mastakilla wasnt trying to screw anyone. i know he bought it on ebay. i dont think he is wrong for definding himself like he did neither. he did it with class. if you want. p/m/ me your paypal address and i will send you the cost like i said. thats not a problem. sorry if you thought i was trying to make you look bad. that was never my intention. and its good that you got your money back. im glad. didnt want to see you sell the card and get a chargeback. that would suck!

however, i wouldnt come on here and say that something was fake unless i knew for a fact. so you can say what you want about me and this and that. i really dont care. fact of the matter is that i was right and i wasnt trying to get anyone mad.

happy holidays

 

[KandKCards]

Thank you for taking them down, Im glad you did. Now, to say that no one knew these were fake until they went to PSA is crap. These cards have no discernable resemblance to any Payton autograph. I did a lot of research when I was going to buy a Payton for myself, and I would never touch cards like this. The fact is, not a single person who knows Payton's signature would have bought or sold these without some sort of question. At least you took them down, which is more than we can say for any of the other douches who sell fakes on a daily basis.


After 12 years why is this coming to the surface now? yes they look different, yes they dont look like his normal signature. Why is beckett grading them? Why has it taken THIS LONG for anyone to say anything about them? These identical cards have been bought and sold for the last 7 years at least. I figured since nothing was said previously, since beckett grades them, and since they have been selling for over 7-12 years already that they were legit. You can take it however you want but when i purchased the cards i never thought for a second they were fake. Why would i spend 950 on a fake card to turn around and screw someone to make 100.00 profit, potentially get a charge back, bad feedback and a headache? Not worth it? Firstly you can see my feedback, you can talk to people who know me, i would never intentionally screw anyone. In fact of the 2 of these i had, i traded one away to a set collector who owns a blue ink, wanted the black ink variation, so if set collectors dont question the auto why would I? Anyway I contacted the guy and having him send it back obviously. If there is any doubt in my mind that im selling something fake, 1. i wouldnt purchase it in the first place and 2. i wouldnt try and sell it. I never questioned these, regardless of the difference in signatures and regardless of what you think. I was looking at them the same way i did when i sold them before, same black sharpie, same looking sig, same back, nothing was different from a year ago when i sold them to daveyou. If im coming off as rude, don't take it that way, hard to convey attitude on a message board. Anyway, I think im done with this. If you guys want to try and get something together to speak with UD or beckett to write a article or to inform buyers/sellers of these i would be more then happy to. Otherwise its just beating a dead horse.

I like you, dude, but if you even remotely followed Payton and the Legends set, you would know this is NOT just coming to the surface now. I first heard about it probably 5 years ago. I think it's just big now because there are a bunch of black autos surfacing at the same time. I know it sucks to have bought something that's fake, but I know you're way too smart to not know how bad the signature looks.

 

[wheeler281]

hello all. in no way did i mean to cause a problem. i was just stating a point. I knew the card was a fake. so i said it. deal with it. it doesnt take a guy from psa or jsa to see that it wasnt walter paytons signature. but its funny how other people can determine whether a patch card is real or fake with out proof (at times). (WITH NO CREDENTIALS) or a photo shoot for that matter. its the same damn thing that i did. you guys say (thats not adrian peterson autograph, or its not matt ryans autograph ect.. thats EXACTLY what i did!

what ever. im not worried about that. i dont care if i had 1 post or 84 posts. and i wasnt trying to have a big ego. it was a point that i made. i new that mastakilla wasnt trying to screw anyone. i know he bought it on ebay. i dont think he is wrong for definding himself like he did neither. he did it with class. if you want. p/m/ me your paypal address and i will send you the cost like i said. thats not a problem. sorry if you thought i was trying to make you look bad. that was never my intention. and its good that you got your money back. im glad. didnt want to see you sell the card and get a chargeback. that would suck!

however, i wouldnt come on here and say that something was fake unless i knew for a fact. so you can say what you want about me and this and that. i really dont care. fact of the matter is that i was right and i wasnt trying to get anyone mad.

happy holidays

of course he wants you offered. In case you convienently missed last page it is

Paypal addy is [email protected]

 

[Crash Davis]

Gellman runs The National Enquirer of the hobby sites.

Nuff said.

 

[card_crazy]

hello all. in no way did i mean to cause a problem. i was just stating a point. I knew the card was a fake. so i said it. deal with it. it doesnt take a guy from psa or jsa to see that it wasnt walter paytons signature. but its funny how other people can determine whether a patch card is real or fake with out proof (at times). (WITH NO CREDENTIALS) or a photo shoot for that matter. its the same damn thing that i did. you guys say (thats not adrian peterson autograph, or its not matt ryans autograph ect.. thats EXACTLY what i did!

what ever. im not worried about that. i dont care if i had 1 post or 84 posts. and i wasnt trying to have a big ego. it was a point that i made. i new that mastakilla wasnt trying to screw anyone. i know he bought it on ebay. i dont think he is wrong for definding himself like he did neither. he did it with class. if you want. p/m/ me your paypal address and i will send you the cost like i said. thats not a problem. sorry if you thought i was trying to make you look bad. that was never my intention. and its good that you got your money back. im glad. didnt want to see you sell the card and get a chargeback. that would suck!

however, i wouldnt come on here and say that something was fake unless i knew for a fact. so you can say what you want about me and this and that. i really dont care. fact of the matter is that i was right and i wasnt trying to get anyone mad.

happy holidays

of course he wants you offered. In case you convienently missed last page it is

Paypal addy is [email protected]

HMM.. havnt checked this out in a while.. not going to pay though lol. i saved him a huge possible problem he could of had if he sold it. lol were even.

 

[card_crazy]

hello all. in no way did i mean to cause a problem. i was just stating a point. I knew the card was a fake. so i said it. deal with it. it doesnt take a guy from psa or jsa to see that it wasnt walter paytons signature. but its funny how other people can determine whether a patch card is real or fake with out proof (at times). (WITH NO CREDENTIALS) or a photo shoot for that matter. its the same damn thing that i did. you guys say (thats not adrian peterson autograph, or its not matt ryans autograph ect.. thats EXACTLY what i did!

what ever. im not worried about that. i dont care if i had 1 post or 84 posts. and i wasnt trying to have a big ego. it was a point that i made. i new that mastakilla wasnt trying to screw anyone. i know he bought it on ebay. i dont think he is wrong for definding himself like he did neither. he did it with class. if you want. p/m/ me your paypal address and i will send you the cost like i said. thats not a problem. sorry if you thought i was trying to make you look bad. that was never my intention. and its good that you got your money back. im glad. didnt want to see you sell the card and get a chargeback. that would suck!

however, i wouldnt come on here and say that something was fake unless i knew for a fact. so you can say what you want about me and this and that. i really dont care. fact of the matter is that i was right and i wasnt trying to get anyone mad.

happy holidays

of course he wants you offered. In case you convienently missed last page it is

Paypal addy is [email protected]

HMM.. havnt checked this out in a while.. not going to pay though lol. i saved him a huge possible problem he could of had if he sold it. lol were even.

 

[Viking4Alpha]

Holy necro posting batman..... :?

 

[wheeler281]

[email protected][/email]

HMM.. havnt checked this out in a while.. not going to pay though lol. i saved him a huge possible problem he could of had if he sold it. lol were even.[/quote:5h4ji6qo]

Welcome to yesteryear you fruticake wanna be. Way to pop in months later. Figured you would not pay you are a bum. Move along *******