ESPN Reporting: Highly possible no one voted into the HOF this year

[uniquebaseballcards]

Wow. You didn't read my posts very well.

That you can arbitrarily disregard specific HOF voting criteria? Sure, you were pretty clear about your wanting to do that, its just doesn't work that way.

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

That you can arbitrarily disregard specific HOF voting criteria? Sure, you were pretty clear about your wanting to do that, its just doesn't work that way.

Something tells me that you're not as smart as you think you are.

 

[morgoth]

You can't have an opinion about what someone put into their body. That's like having an opinion on someone being left-handed or what that person ate for breakfast. If someone did or did not cheat using PEDs is a fact, one way or another; but it's an unknowable fact until proof is presented.

Writers can think they know what happened, but until proof surfaces, said writer is just waiting to be wrong or right on the FACT that a player used.

I don't know what this means for voting for the HoF, but if PEDs are a criteria for said writer, than if said writer uses his "opinion", he's being intellectually dishonest.

Well Braun won't be getting in after his 5 years based on this

 

[PadresFan86]

Mlb should have their own hof. Screw the writers.

Sent from my HUAWEI-M920 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[scotty216brs]

This pisses me off because on years when no one should make it they vote someone in. And this year when many should make it they're not going to vote someone in.

Here is my opinion. Someone will get in because its not about the HOF anymore it's about all the revenue generated for Cooperstown businesses during HOF weekend. That's why they will never go without electing at least one person.

Only took a handful of posts for someone to say exactly what I was going to post.

 

[D-Lite]

So why is it that Piazza and Bagwell are suspected of PED use but Frank Thomas is not, based on what seems to be general consensus on next year's voting outcome? I'm not saying any of them did and I think they should all be first ballot, but where are these writers drawing the line?

In fact, how many players that would easily be in the Hall if not for perception have actually tested positive for anything? Now of course McGwire had creatine in his locker and Bonds and Clemens had trials that they squeaked out of, but after that?

And since the topic of character has come up, what about 1st ballot HoF'er Puckett with two women accusing him of abuse? Of course that came out after the HoF induction, but should the cheaters and jerks be expunged from the Hall now?

 

[MansGame]

So why is it that Piazza and Bagwell are suspected of PED use but Frank Thomas is not, based on what seems to be general consensus on next year's voting outcome? I'm not saying any of them did and I think they should all be first ballot, but where are these writers drawing the line?

In fact, how many players that would easily be in the Hall if not for perception have actually tested positive for anything? Now of course McGwire had creatine in his locker and Bonds and Clemens had trials that they squeaked out of, but after that?

And since the topic of character has come up, what about 1st ballot HoF'er Puckett with two women accusing him of abuse? Of course that came out after the HoF induction, but should the cheaters and jerks be expunged from the Hall now?

To your first question, maybe because he was a HUGE guy from birth lol.... IMO, that's like saying Shaq was on PEDs when really he was just a massive dude over 7 foot tall, etc.

I'm not sure if that's it but the Big Hurt was a massive guy and wasn't really extremely cut up as much as he was just a big guy

:twisted: Flame away :twisted:

 

[D-Lite]

To your first question, maybe because he was a HUGE guy from birth lol.... IMO, that's like saying Shaq was on PEDs when really he was just a massive dude over 7 foot tall, etc.

I'm not sure if that's it but the Big Hurt was a massive guy and wasn't really extremely cut up as much as he was just a big guy

:twisted: Flame away :twisted:

And I can agree with that regarding Thomas. Big freakin' dude. But Piazza?? He wasn't small obviously, but his neck didn't grown Bonds' style, did it?

 

[MansGame]

And I can agree with that regarding Thomas. Big freakin' dude. But Piazza?? He wasn't small obviously, but his neck didn't grown Bonds' style, did it?

Honestly, I'm not in the camp that Piazza did PEDs... but I guess who knows... the dude did mash during the era

 

[rsmath]

Just because players CAN go into the HOF every year, doesn't mean that every year a player SHOULD go into the HOF.

that's why I love the baseball HOF the most - it's a high quality HOF, not a forced HOF like the NFL where there is a requirement for six or whatever players to be inducted every year.

 

[hive17]

The entire HOF voting process is an opinion about whether or not a particular player, executive, umpire, etc should be in the HOF.

Its always been this way... and if it wasn't that way the HOF would be a Hall of Stats where obtaining certain numbers gained a candidate automatic entry into the Hall of Stats... which would obviously make baseball a very boring, non-team sport.

While some people here may want a Hall of Stats, anyone who really knows baseball understands that baseball is more than stats.

That's not my point. My only problem is the writers using PEDs, to-the-man, as a bar for enshrinement, yet still just guessing about it. Unless there is proof, none of these writer's opinions on who used should be a factor. So either no one from that era gets a vote, or they ALL do, based solely on their stats.

Again, you cannot have an "opinion" that someone did or did not use PEDs; they either did or did not as a fact. Anyone who votes on an assumption is wrong.

 

[hive17]

Well Braun won't be getting in after his 5 years based on this

No, you're wrong. I am not talking about who will or won't, based on anything. I'm simply saying that, without proof, you're being dishonest if you assume. There is nothing to have an opinion on with respect to "if" or "if not"; there can only be an opinion with respect to what PEDs mean to the game and its history.

 

[elmalo]

I think the results here show that the HOF needs to do something about the guys with positive steroid tests. The fact that you have guys who have never been conected with steroids other than they played in the steroid era not getting votes, thats a problem. I guess in baseball innocent until proven guilty is wrong. The fact that people arent voting for Biggio and Piazza likley because they THINK they did steriods is a joke. Biggio/Piazza/Bagwell should be getting more votes.

Clemens and Bonds never failed any tests either so...

 

[elmalo]

That's not my point. My only problem is the writers using PEDs, to-the-man, as a bar for enshrinement, yet still just guessing about it. Unless there is proof, none of these writer's opinions on who used should be a factor. So either no one from that era gets a vote, or they ALL do, based solely on their stats.

Again, you cannot have an "opinion" that someone did or did not use PEDs; they either did or did not as a fact. Anyone who votes on an assumption is wrong.

I agree. It is rediculous to look at 1 player and say, well, he maybe could have and than look at another player and say, I think he was clean.

 

[elmalo]

So why is it that Piazza and Bagwell are suspected of PED use but Frank Thomas is not, based on what seems to be general consensus on next year's voting outcome? I'm not saying any of them did and I think they should all be first ballot, but where are these writers drawing the line?

In fact, how many players that would easily be in the Hall if not for perception have actually tested positive for anything? Now of course McGwire had creatine in his locker and Bonds and Clemens had trials that they squeaked out of, but after that?

And since the topic of character has come up, what about 1st ballot HoF'er Puckett with two women accusing him of abuse? Of course that came out after the HoF induction, but should the cheaters and jerks be expunged from the Hall now?

McGwire had andro in his locker, which at the time was over the counter and could be bought at any health store. But he was on much more than andro. Creatine is a completely legal, safe and effective supplement.

 

[trauty]

The sickening thing about a guy like Bonds is had he not taken Steriods the Guy would have ended up with Willie Mays Numbers WTF is wrong with that??? What a complete idiot, and wasnt enough for him. He would have not been pitched around as much pretty much insuring 3000 hits. Im sure he couldnt himself see his own future but without Peds Bonds was a 600HR 3000HIT guy.

Yeah, and the sad thing is, even if he wouldn't have taken steroids he probably still wouldn't have got in because the writer's would have assumed that he must have taken steroids to be as good as he was. There is an absolute logjam and it's only going to get worse unless they change the way the voting process works. Maddux will get in next year (and maybe Biggio) but I kinda doubt that that anybody else will be elected with him. Just way too many deserving players and way too many voters that refuse to vote for more than 1 or 2 guys per year. Eventually we'll get a pro football style election process (which I would welcome - I'm a large hall guy).

 

[wolfmanalfredo]

How come Todd Walker didn't get a vote? I thought for sure first ballot

 

[D-Lite]

McGwire had andro in his locker, which at the time was over the counter and could be bought at any health store. But he was on much more than andro. Creatine is a completely legal, safe and effective supplement.

That's right, andro.

Creatine is legal for the rest of us, but not in baseball anymore.

Which reminds me, why do the people keep saying that "Player X did steroids before baseball banned them." Um, yes, but it's been illegal to take steroids without a prescription for decades. I hate that argument.

 

[elmalo]

That's right, andro.

Creatine is legal for the rest of us, but not in baseball anymore.

Which reminds me, why do the people keep saying that "Player X did steroids before baseball banned them." Um, yes, but it's been illegal to take steroids without a prescription for decades. I hate that argument.

Last I checked creatine was still legal in baseball and it would be silly if it was on the banned substance list. It is one of the safest and best supplements that you can use.

 

[D-Lite]

Last I checked creatine was still legal in baseball and it would be silly if it was on the banned substance list. It is one of the safest and best supplements that you can use.

Doh, right again.