AL Cy Young - Felix or Greinke

[Tomlinson21RB]

I think one thing that hurts Felix, and it may be the east coast bias again, but it doesn't seem like anyone has talked about dominant stretches for Felix. He's been very good all season, but we've seen some stretches from Greinke that just made him look absolutely dominant and I know I heard quite a few people talking about those times.

 

[All The Hype]

[quote="ALL_THE_HYPE":1da7wlas]It's Greinke's award this year, but I sure do hate not even seeing Verlander on the poll list (he's been more impressive than Sabathia this year). Verlander has 17 wins this year, a very good ERA in the low to mid 3s and leads the Majors in Strikeouts. Can't he even be put on the list as his own option instead of as an "other"?



The best thing I've heard all year was on baseball tonight the other day. Kruk was talking about this race and at that time they were talking specifically about Greinke and Sabathia (who had just come off another win).

Kruk's argument was if you put Greinke on the Yankees (a.k.a. the best team in baseball like Sabathia has had the luxury of playing on) and Sabathia on the Royals (a.k.a. one of the worst 5 teams in baseball) and then looked at what their stats would be, this race wouldn't even be close. Greinke would have at least 22 wins already with the way he's pitched to go along with the better ERA and more Ks.

I get that there is some debate for Verlander, but I don't get any argument where he's a better choice than Greinke, CC or Felix.

Of the four, Verlander has the worst ERA, worst WHIP, worst BAA, most losses, most HRs. If all had 33 starts by now, Verlander would have the least amount of IPs.

Verlander shouldn't even really be in the discussion in the way of winning the award (which was what the poll was). Hell, I've yet to even see a good argument for why CC should get it over Felix and Greinke.

Yeah I understand it's about who will win, but how can CC be on the poll and Verlander not be on? Obviously there are other stats that go into this decision, but as far as I'm concerned, Verlander has had a better year than Sabathia (Sabathia has ONE more win on a far superior team, Verlander's ERA is .10 higher, but Verlander has 70 more strikeouts than Sabathia).


The way I see it, one win, two losses and 0.10 ERA difference is far overshadowed by the fact that Verlander has 70 more Ks than Sabathia (and leads the Majors). Realistically I don't think anyone but Greinke will win this award, but if you're going to talk about only including people that have a chance, I don't see how Sabathia can be on the list and Verlander not.

W/L ERA K
Verlander 17-9 3.41 256
Sabathia 18-7 3.31 186

As much as I hate to say it, and you'd hate to admit it, I think we both know why CC is on the list...Yankees.

You know that some idiot voters will vote for CC because he has the most wins and plays for the Yankees (I think that's been proven by this poll too).

Verlander won't get the love that CC will.

Frankly, it shouldn't be anyone other than Greinke and Felix as far as I'm concerned, but I had to add CC for the Yankee factor...as much as it pains me.

Either way, at this point, I won't add Verlander...but it's probably safe to assume the "others" are all for Verlander [/quote:1da7wlas]


Yep completely agree, just sayin Verlander has been just as good or better than Sabathia.

Again, it shouldn't matter because this is Greinke's award as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Wes]

Greinke and Felix is the only one in the discussion. Sabathia is not anywhere near the award this year.

 

[Sly]

I think one thing that hurts Felix, and it may be the east coast bias again, but it doesn't seem like anyone has talked about dominant stretches for Felix. He's been very good all season, but we've seen some stretches from Greinke that just made him look absolutely dominant and I know I heard quite a few people talking about those times.

I don't think Felix has really been talked about much all season even though he HAS had some stretches. His numbers in June:

3-0, 0.94 ERA, 0.965 WHIP

His numbers this month:

4-0, 1.15 ERA, .0949 WHIP (and that's AFTER he gave up 3 runs last night)

He's just been overshadowed by Greinke (obviously) and talk of CC with the Yankees winning so much.

 

[dooly]

Greinke >> Felix > Halladay > Sabathia > Verlander

Halladay? wow.

You seem surprised for some reason...why?

Halladay and Sabathia have similar numbers in many categories but Halladay beats him by almost 0.3 in era. Obviously Sabathia leads by a wide margin in Wins but I don't like to deal with silly stats. Also, if you want to bring division into the argument, Halladay faces the Yanks while Sabathia faces the Jays.

 

[RL24]

I think the people who voted for CC in this poll know what the voters look at. Does the pitcher have a lot of wins? Does he play for the Yankees or Red Sox? We have a winner!


CC really isn't that bad you know... he hasn't lost a game since July 28, and the Yankees haven't lost a game he started in that incredible 2 month stretch.

 

[Frow]

Hope to see him sure up his award sunday

 

[RL24]

Greinke >> Felix > Halladay > Sabathia > Verlander

Halladay? wow.

You seem surprised for some reason...why?

Halladay and Sabathia have similar numbers in many categories but Halladay beats him by almost 0.3 in era. Obviously Sabathia leads by a wide margin in Wins but I don't like to deal with silly stats. Also, if you want to bring division into the argument, Halladay faces the Yanks while Sabathia faces the Jays.

Not necessarily true. I mean, look at Greinke. His team has played the Yankees how many times this year? And he has never pitched against them. No wonder his ERA and BAA are so great! :lol:

 

[ballerskrip]

Rl24,

Neithee greinke or cc pitched against the yankees this year. Guess that makes it a pointless argument...

Cc is very good, just not the cy young.

 

[FromKoufaxtoEdwin]

Greinke also pitches in front of one of the worst defenses in baseball, as opposed to Felix pitching in front of the best.

Truly, this is a no-brainer of a choice, and the fact that this discussion is even being had comments on how bad the mainstream media is at understanding what signifies being a good player.

 

[jeff550]

it has to be Greinke

 

[darocker80]

lincecum and greinke for cy youngs!

1. Greinke
2. Felix
3. cc
4. verlander

 

[Wes]

lincecum and greinke for cy youngs!

1. Greinke
2. Felix
3. cc
4. verlander

Lincecum is gonna need two dominant starts to pull this one out I think.

 

[Johan Santana 57]

It was only a matter of time before Lincecum gets mentioned in an AL CY Young thread.

He should probably just win the CYA in both leagues.

 

[carlitoson]

I'm a life-long Yankees fan and there's no way I would vote for CC. It's Greinke IMO.

BTW, I actually think it could hurt his chances by not facing the Yankees next week, in that if he were to go into the Stadium and shut down the Yanks he could lock it up. Any chance they'd push his start back to Monday for this reason? Probably not, but it's something to think about.

 

[Casey2884]

I'll never understand why people think that a win against a good team is worth more than a win versus a bad team. A win is a win.

If a pitcher is 18-9 and is a perfect 12-0 versus winning teams, that means he went 6-9 versus the teams under .500. Is that a positive thing?

AGREED!!!!! Great Post. Took the words out of my mouth as I was reading those stats on Greinke's 0.57 ERA vs. good teams. That means his ERA vs. bad teams must be significantly worse.

That said, it is still THE most impressive stat of Greinke's and I voted for him and don't think it's too close.

 

[Frow]

I'm a life-long Yankees fan and there's no way I would vote for CC. It's Greinke IMO.

BTW, I actually think it could hurt his chances by not facing the Yankees next week, in that if he were to go into the Stadium and shut down the Yanks he could lock it up. Any chance they'd push his start back to Monday for this reason? Probably not, but it's something to think about.

God I hope not as I just bought tix for Sunday. It would be a major crush to the fans as the Royals are pushing Greinke hard in the marketing department. There has been a countdown for the team season record on strike outs and Sunday they are giving out half price tix as well as Greinke For Cy T-Shirts. They have a ticket package for Sunday called The Zack Pack.

Long story short we are talking major fan backlash if they screw us over. But come on...they're playing the Twins, a rival and a team that is 3 back in the standings and every game here on out is HUGE for them. Which do you think means more, a divisional team that is trying to scratch and claw its way into the playoffs or a team that has it locked up already and will likely rest their top guys?

 

[Sly]

I'm a life-long Yankees fan and there's no way I would vote for CC. It's Greinke IMO.

BTW, I actually think it could hurt his chances by not facing the Yankees next week, in that if he were to go into the Stadium and shut down the Yanks he could lock it up. Any chance they'd push his start back to Monday for this reason? Probably not, but it's something to think about.

God I hope not as I just bought tix for Sunday. It would be a major crush to the fans as the Royals are pushing Greinke hard in the marketing department. There has been a countdown for the team season record on strike outs and Sunday they are giving out half price tix as well as Greinke For Cy T-Shirts. They have a ticket package for Sunday called The Zack Pack.

Long story short we are talking major fan backlash if they screw us over. But come on...they're playing the Twins, a rival and a team that is 3 back in the standings and every game here on out is HUGE for them. Which do you think means more, a divisional team that is trying to scratch and claw its way into the playoffs or a team that has it locked up already and will likely rest their top guys?

Yeah and the thing is, Greinke doesn't need a start against the Yankees to improve his chances at the Cy Young. Why would the Royals even take the chance that he gets lit up against the Yankees (not saying he would)

 

[carlitoson]

God I hope not as I just bought tix for Sunday. It would be a major crush to the fans as the Royals are pushing Greinke hard in the marketing department. There has been a countdown for the team season record on strike outs and Sunday they are giving out half price tix as well as Greinke For Cy T-Shirts. They have a ticket package for Sunday called The Zack Pack.

Long story short we are talking major fan backlash if they screw us over. But come on...they're playing the Twins, a rival and a team that is 3 back in the standings and every game here on out is HUGE for them. Which do you think means more, a divisional team that is trying to scratch and claw its way into the playoffs or a team that has it locked up already and will likely rest their top guys?

I had no idea they had all that planned for Sunday. That answers that question.

 

[darocker80]

lincecum and greinke for cy youngs!

1. Greinke
2. Felix
3. cc
4. verlander

Lincecum is gonna need two dominant starts to pull this one out I think.

going to the game today? i am