One of those experiences that makes me question this Hobby

[Sweetness]

I think of wax as scratch off lottery tickets. Win some lose some. The more you buy the more chances you have to lose.

 

[craftysouthpaw]

In my opinion, there are two separate issues here. One is busting 8 cases and getting the expected number of "hits" but just getting stuck with the lesser players. One is busting 8 cases and getting massively shorted the number of hits that would be returned out of any competent collation of the product.

Several people said you can't blame Topps, but I completely disagree. The OP's hits were so far below the expected return that it can't be explained by randomness, but only by shoddy work by Topps.

I bust several cases of Bowman products a year and I do so almost completely as a collector. I rarely sell anything. But I still get pissed when this happens to me because it just reeks of poor customer service. Cards are purely a hobby for me but I still want to feel like I'm getting value from my purchases.

Most times, I don't have sympathy when people can't flip for a profit because that isn't what cards are all about for me, but this just speaks to something totally separate IMO (regardless of whether the OP intended to flip or not - that is an independent issue to me). The fact that so many cases are lacking any color (including the one I ripped) and so many others are returning three and four blues/golds/oranges is inexcusable. A few times is to be expected but the prevalence I've seen with Draft is the latest example of Topps' lack of competence, apathy, or both.

I feel for you Skrip.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I don't believe he ever stated he didn't get what was expected oddwise, just that the player selection stunk.

I had been on a streak, until 2007 or 2008 (I forget) of never pulling a gold refractor auto. That changed, eventually, but I'd opened 15 or so cases of numerous Chrome products and never pulled same.

OP received at a minimum of 5 gold/orange auto refractors.

 

[hofautos]

Has anyone talking about "risk" and "gamble" and "taking a chance", stopped for one second and thought about how fracked up that is?

Buying topps products is not gambling. It is not considered such. If it was, it would be heavily regulated by the government.

According to topps, you are simply buying a product. If you paid $5k for any other product, and the minute you opened it, it was only worth $2k, you wouldn't be pissed?

Of course you would. The HUGE difference is, 99.9% of ALL OTHER CONSUMER PRODUCTS in the world can be returned if you are unhappy with them.
Opened, used briefly, partially eaten, doesn't matter.
Can you return an opened case of topps cards? Hell no you can't!! But why the hell not?

Topps hides behind their "we don't guarantee any future value" ********. In what other industry/product would that be allowed by the consumer??

Answer this for me Mike.

GAMBLE
2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.

 

[hofautos]

....There is reasonable expectation that one will receive the stated odds (or close to) if one buys a significant amount of wax.

"Present and Future value" also comes into play, one never knows if those no-name prospects will be red hot in 2-5 years or the prospects that are hot now will flame out in that time. Of course he could have kept the cases sealed and waited for prices to go up. But what would be the fun in that?

I agree 100% on stated odds. What are the stated odds? If he believes he has a legitimate gripe against Topps, he can always make a complaint to the manufacturer. On the one case I broke, I actually complained to the manufacturer, and they made good on it. I still lost money (UD sent me a griffey patch auto that sold for $300+), but it wasn't the money I was complaining about...I was supposed to get x amount of autos, which was the only reason I bought the case. He can always try writing topps, it can't hurt...point them to this thread. They don't want bad business, they may send you something and let you know next time think twice...

 

[A_Pharis]

Chas: Umm.. I'm fairly sure the reason companies offer NPNs is to avoid being classified as gambling. This would probably be the government that you speak of causing this. So -- except for the NPN aspect, it really is kinda' like gambling. SOrry, bro.

 

[ballerskrip]

Wow, this thread really took off. I have been sorting all morning and just finally finished.

I have a few respones I suppose.

This is my first time ripping this many cases, as I stated before. I did it becaus I truly enjoy breaking wax. It is like christmas for me. As much as I love other parts of this hobby, opening up a fresh box is a blast. I made the decision based on the checklist that this would be a good product to take the plunge with.

My eyes were wide open on the fact that there was risk involved, as there is any time that wax is opened. I completely understood what I was getting myself into.

I didn't make this post to get sympathy, or blaim topps, but to share my experience. If someone can gain something from this experience, then it was worth posting.

I was upset with the collaction. But it happens. It is extremely hard for me to understand however the lack of Blue refractor autographs (i got 3 in 8 cases) and gold/orange ref autos (only two prospects in 8 cases). I did hit some usa gold/oranges but those have seperate odds than the prospect autos and have no effect on them.

I appreciate the well thought out responses that were made. I have learned from this experience and will likely never do this again. I guess I was more bummed out than anything that what was supposed to be such a fun experience, turned into a kick in the nuts. I could tell after two cases that things were going bad and they never got better.

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts.

And for those asking about player lots etc, I am listing them tommorow night. I sold a few stras/posey/machado lots already. I am crossing my fingers that tonights auctions end better than I expect, but I am not holding out hope.

Have a great night everyone.

Skrip

 

[hofautos]

^^ Good thought out response. I do sympathize with you, as ALL of us have been "short changed" from time to time. It would have been a different story if you got a super of someone decent.
You never stated, so are you out of the hobby, or you were just caught up in the moment. I am sure you are still in...because it's tough to sell and not buy while looking....the addiction rages on for all of us...

PS- I would contact topps, it can't hurt...all they can say is tough, but with really bad breaks, it would be nice to see if TOPPS is willing to do anything. I had luck with UD.

PSS - if it's going to be your "lucky day", it only takes one box...try to keep it light, and you will continue to enjoy.

 

[rainmanesq]

While it sucks to have a bad break (been there done that w/06 bcdp- can you say SOTF cases galore + ZERO kershaws and ZERO longos? Ugh…and I won’t even get into some of my Exquisite/Cup/any UD product breaks- ugh- or BC case breaks w/bazillion VET parallels ugh), it’s just the way it goes. Over the past year-3, it seems like everyone + their baby mama started prospecting/ripping wax + when things were going ‘well’ (economy was good, 07 bcdp had bazillion guys to make $ off of, etc.), very few people complained. Nowadays, it seems like ‘omg, I got ripped on this case/box bust’ threads are more common…why? Frankly, I’ve found the ‘best $ makers’ are often the most BORING (imo) products to rip (topps series 1-2 for ex.). W/that said, this year’s BC/BCDP do seem to be more ‘hit or miss’ which is partly why I avoided ripping any.

Ripping wax has always been a gamble + like when I go to Vegas, I expect to lose my $. If I ‘win,’ great. If not, that’s how the cookie crumbles. Like in Vegas when you can choose blackjack over slots (better odds for Blackjack), you can minimize wax losses by doing things differently- buy lots/break them up for resale, DON’T bust @ release, but do so later, do presales of 20 ct lots/sets, stick only to being a 'collector' (or a 'prospector') rather than 'casebuster looking for quick cash' etc.

 

[1st4040]

without even reading more than half of this thread all I can say is.. you bust wax and hit nice stuff at times and junk at other times.. if you were ahead last year you either just broke even with this years kick in the junk or are in the red some which is what you expect when busting volume of wax.

I know you have posted box busting successes in the past so at some point you have to expect that your going to feel the pain of a bad break with little to no return as the odds are stacked against you. This break has obviously brought you back to the reality of ripping wax and where you decide to spend your money from here on in is obviously a decision you yourself need to make.

 

[rainmanesq]

so so true most people just wanna pile on for no reason whatsoever. Most of them never had the rocks either.

Matt, next time just email the group of us that has a fracking clue what you are talking about. Obviously a lot of people have no clue because they havent been there before.

true, but i also think the board's become 'too sensitive' lately. if someone says 'eh, that's the break- it's a gamble,' people take it as someone saying 'you're an idiot.' NOT the same thing. it's a gamble, yeah...not 1 i took this year. does that mean i'm a d-bag or lecturing matt? no, it's just 'stating the facts.' vent all you want, but life goes on. matt will likely hit a monster superfractor next time he busts...just the way the cards go, eh?

 

[boomo]

mike, it was 22 in 06 and 26 in 07. got lucky in 06 with 3 gold longoria and the 1/1 bonds red in 07 + saunders red ref. But even with those, it was sorting all the player lots and jamming ebay with all 165 of them at once in 100+ count lots. That is the beauty of draft, every card sells in lots, even the worst of the worst would get 10 cents a card. cant say that with 90% of the products as the base cards are just firewood. I never figured out exact % of return, was just to lazy, but in the end i knew i had more back than i spent.

THanks for the info...about the other part of the question...if you can make $1 per card on postage and minimum .10 a card that's a good chunk of your money back. And indeed it sounds like you got a few monster hits, for it just to "get ahead", so on the other 40 of the 48 cases were "losers". I know it's a lot of work, and sure many enjoy it. I think it is great that there are people that enjoy gambling, busting cases for us singles collectors, provided they understand that it's gambling.

Just out of curiosity, why did you bust 40 cases in on 6 and 07, and haven't since?

i was doing it with someone who fell on tuff times and no longer could afford to,
and it just didnt seem like it would be any fun by myself i guess

 

[hofautos]

mike, it was 22 in 06 and 26 in 07. got lucky in 06 with 3 gold longoria and the 1/1 bonds red in 07 + saunders red ref. But even with those, it was sorting all the player lots and jamming ebay with all 165 of them at once in 100+ count lots. That is the beauty of draft, every card sells in lots, even the worst of the worst would get 10 cents a card. cant say that with 90% of the products as the base cards are just firewood. I never figured out exact % of return, was just to lazy, but in the end i knew i had more back than i spent.

THanks for the info...about the other part of the question...if you can make $1 per card on postage and minimum .10 a card that's a good chunk of your money back. And indeed it sounds like you got a few monster hits, for it just to "get ahead", so on the other 40 of the 48 cases were "losers". I know it's a lot of work, and sure many enjoy it. I think it is great that there are people that enjoy gambling, busting cases for us singles collectors, provided they understand that it's gambling.

Just out of curiosity, why did you bust 40 cases in on 6 and 07, and haven't since?

i was doing it with someone who fell on tuff times and no longer could afford to,
and it just didnt seem like it would be any fun by myself i guess

Thanks for the responses Matt. The odds seem better than I realized, so it's interesting info...maybe I will buy a case from time to time if you will list them all for me (grin).
Are there any stated odds at all? E.G. one super per 20 cases or one red per....
If most people get at least 50% and you have a shot at something big...

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

Nevermind

 

[dano7]

skrip

I totally sympathize with your poor luck on those cases. I appreciate your sharing your experience, as it might make others of us think twice about how much we rip and/or why we are ripping wax.
DANNY

 

[hofautos]

Boomo, what kind of arrangements did you have with your last partner?

is this proposition reasonable?

I buy a case, I open it (i will video break), and you list everything. You don't have any investment but your time in sorting/listing/shipping/etc..
We split any profits. If there is any losses, I eat them.

PM me if interested.

 

[brian26]

And for those asking about player lots etc, I am listing them tommorow night. I sold a few stras/posey/machado lots already. I am crossing my fingers that tonights auctions end better than I expect, but I am not holding out hope.

Have a great night everyone.

Skrip

Good luck with the auctions. It seems like traffic is down a bit on Ebay this week due to the holiday. Hopefully you do well.

Sorry about the bad luck on the rip. That's a lot of money to invest in cards. Always do it for the fun. Never do it as a way to make money. There are better ways to get a return.

 

[BrewerSuperCollector]

I'm sorry as I haven't read the 10 pages.

So busting 8 cases is still considered a "hobby"

 

[ballerskrip]

I'm sorry as I haven't read the 10 pages.

So busting 8 cases is still considered a "hobby"

I don't consistently do it, this is the most I have ever done. I typically do a case or two but wanted to try going big one time and see the results. Now I know....

I did check all of the odds and am going to talk with Topps. I was supposed to hit (8) blue ref autos, I got (3). Was supposed to get 2.89 printing plates, gone ZERO. I wasn't planning on making that call, but now after looking at it, it is at least worth a phone call I suppose.

Anyways, gotta run, stuff is ending in 10 minutes....

skrip

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Not sure if it applies, but it would be in good taste to offer to send back anything you got "more" then you should have, according to the stated odds