The BEST player who will NEVER be a HOF'er...?

[Anthony K.]

as i said before, there are plenty of player's who could/should get in imho but i feel they will have a hard time doing so due to the era in which they played. of the guys you mentioned, here is my reasoning for them not being listed with the shoe ins...

Piazza-great hitter in his prime but ultimately a 1 sided player. if he played 20 years earlier, he'd be a first ballot guy.

Biggio-hard nosed guy, excelled in most all facets of the game and at 3 different positions. he was built like a brick ****house and being as close as he was to Bags may hurt him in the eyes of voters.

Helton-2 words...Coors Field. He was one of the best hitters in the NL for 5-6 years but the Coors Field bias is really hard to overcome. as was stated before, he couldn't even place higher than 5th in the MVP voting when putting up one of the best seasons in recent history.

Thome-i really like the guy, a true slugger in every sense of the word. if his name stays squeaky clean, he should get in. honest omission on my behalf.

Hoffman-closers have a really, really hard time getting in. i think he will be viewed as a compiler in the eyes of the voters. that is not to say that he won't eventually get in but he is by no means a shoe in.

By making those two comments, you are saying that 3,000 hits and 500 (possibly 600) home runs are no longer Hall of Fame benchmarks.

Do you agree with that? I do believe they would be the only players at their prospective level of achievements (hits/hrs) not to be in the Hall if they didn't make it.

Biggio is a first-ballot HOFer

Believe me, I completely agree with you. Over his entire career, the only 2nd baseman in his realm was Robbie Alomar.

I also believe Bagwell is a 1st/2nd ballot guy, Thome the same and Hoffman will get in early too (much like Mo Rivera will).

I do see people balking on Helton, just because of the Coors Field effect though.

As for Piazza, well, I was a huge fan of his for his entire career, so I am completely biased (but statistically backed) when I say he is a 1st/2nd ballot guy. He was one of the best offensive players up until he went to the AL and one of the greatest offensive catchers of all time.

EDIT:Long night of work, so i didn't put the "bagwell did steroids so biggio did them too" rumor together, my bad.

 

[predatorkj]

Don't bore me...you don't have a clue if you don't think Helton gets in.

I guess chipper doesn't get in either based on your "method"..and he was the first one i looked up.
CHIPPER JONES HOME: .301 AWAY: .227

Uhhh...
Chipper Jones Career Splits
Home .315/.416/.976
Away .295/.395/.907
Chipper gets in just on his away rates

Chipper and Helton are both close on the laddar of HOF worth in my opinion, with Chipper being a almost certain(95% sure) and Helton being a probablly(85% sure) when taking in to account the intangables that you simply can not thumb with your abacus. Just the way I see it.

Well at least you give Helton 85% chance of getting in...i can deal with that (Grin)....that's about I would give, and definetely worth any wager...

I think he gets in for sure. Just not first ballot.

 

[predatorkj]

[quote="Anthony K.":2mgghx4i]

as i said before, there are plenty of player's who could/should get in imho but i feel they will have a hard time doing so due to the era in which they played. of the guys you mentioned, here is my reasoning for them not being listed with the shoe ins...

Piazza-great hitter in his prime but ultimately a 1 sided player. if he played 20 years earlier, he'd be a first ballot guy.

Biggio-hard nosed guy, excelled in most all facets of the game and at 3 different positions. he was built like a brick ****house and being as close as he was to Bags may hurt him in the eyes of voters.

Helton-2 words...Coors Field. He was one of the best hitters in the NL for 5-6 years but the Coors Field bias is really hard to overcome. as was stated before, he couldn't even place higher than 5th in the MVP voting when putting up one of the best seasons in recent history.

Thome-i really like the guy, a true slugger in every sense of the word. if his name stays squeaky clean, he should get in. honest omission on my behalf.

Hoffman-closers have a really, really hard time getting in. i think he will be viewed as a compiler in the eyes of the voters. that is not to say that he won't eventually get in but he is by no means a shoe in.

By making those two comments, you are saying that 3,000 hits and 500 (possibly 600) home runs are no longer Hall of Fame benchmarks.

Do you agree with that? I do believe they would be the only players at their prospective level of achievements (hits/hrs) not to be in the Hall if they didn't make it.

Biggio is a first-ballot HOFer

Believe me, I completely agree with you. Over his entire career, the only 2nd baseman in his realm was Robbie Alomar.

I also believe Bagwell is a 1st/2nd ballot guy, Thome the same and Hoffman will get in early too (much like Mo Rivera will).

I do see people balking on Helton, just because of the Coors Field effect though.

As for Piazza, well, I was a huge fan of his for his entire career, so I am completely biased (but statistically backed) when I say he is a 1st/2nd ballot guy. He was one of the best offensive players up until he went to the AL and one of the greatest offensive catchers of all time.

EDIT:Long night of work, so i didn't put the "bagwell did steroids so biggio did them too" rumor together, my bad.[/quote:2mgghx4i]


I think a lot of us are saying the things we are saying based soley on what we believe voters will do. My opinion in no way reflects my opinion of the player's accomplishments. I just think the voters can be awful froggy on certain subjects.

 

[Ryan The Orange]

^ Those two

 

[Halonut]

[quote="Anthony K.":3t1zsdvv]

as i said before, there are plenty of player's who could/should get in imho but i feel they will have a hard time doing so due to the era in which they played. of the guys you mentioned, here is my reasoning for them not being listed with the shoe ins...

Piazza-great hitter in his prime but ultimately a 1 sided player. if he played 20 years earlier, he'd be a first ballot guy.

Biggio-hard nosed guy, excelled in most all facets of the game and at 3 different positions. he was built like a brick ****house and being as close as he was to Bags may hurt him in the eyes of voters.

Helton-2 words...Coors Field. He was one of the best hitters in the NL for 5-6 years but the Coors Field bias is really hard to overcome. as was stated before, he couldn't even place higher than 5th in the MVP voting when putting up one of the best seasons in recent history.

Thome-i really like the guy, a true slugger in every sense of the word. if his name stays squeaky clean, he should get in. honest omission on my behalf.

Hoffman-closers have a really, really hard time getting in. i think he will be viewed as a compiler in the eyes of the voters. that is not to say that he won't eventually get in but he is by no means a shoe in.

By making those two comments, you are saying that 3,000 hits and 500 (possibly 600) home runs are no longer Hall of Fame benchmarks.

Do you agree with that? I do believe they would be the only players at their prospective level of achievements (hits/hrs) not to be in the Hall if they didn't make it.

Biggio is a first-ballot HOFer

Believe me, I completely agree with you. Over his entire career, the only 2nd baseman in his realm was Robbie Alomar.

I also believe Bagwell is a 1st/2nd ballot guy, Thome the same and Hoffman will get in early too (much like Mo Rivera will).

I do see people balking on Helton, just because of the Coors Field effect though.

As for Piazza, well, I was a huge fan of his for his entire career, so I am completely biased (but statistically backed) when I say he is a 1st/2nd ballot guy. He was one of the best offensive players up until he went to the AL and one of the greatest offensive catchers of all time.

EDIT:Long night of work, so i didn't put the "bagwell did steroids so biggio did them too" rumor together, my bad.

I think a lot of us are saying the things we are saying based soley on what we believe voters will do. My opinion in no way reflects my opinion of the player's accomplishments. I just think the voters can be awful froggy on certain subjects.[/quote:3t1zsdvv]

my sentiments exactly...i do believe all of the players referred to are hall worthy but then again, i do not have a vote.

 

[morgoth]

You can see what is going on with the writers. They are getting as many of the fringy pre steriod era guys in the HOF first. Dawson and Rice may have never made it w/o the roid guys IMO. Guys with 400 something HRs in the 70-80s look much better than 500+ roid guys in the 90/00's.

I think Dave Parker has a better chance of getting in right now than a guy like Helton who not only had the suspicious post steroid testing decline but also had the Coors field tag put on him.

Bert Blyleven is the most egregious HOF snub right now of eligible players.

 

[ROLLTIDE4LIFE]

Minnie Minoso!

this is the best answer

 

[nosterbor]

[quote="Anthony K.":2wx3z6sz]

as i said before, there are plenty of player's who could/should get in imho but i feel they will have a hard time doing so due to the era in which they played. of the guys you mentioned, here is my reasoning for them not being listed with the shoe ins...

Piazza-great hitter in his prime but ultimately a 1 sided player. if he played 20 years earlier, he'd be a first ballot guy.

Biggio-hard nosed guy, excelled in most all facets of the game and at 3 different positions. he was built like a brick ****house and being as close as he was to Bags may hurt him in the eyes of voters.

Helton-2 words...Coors Field. He was one of the best hitters in the NL for 5-6 years but the Coors Field bias is really hard to overcome. as was stated before, he couldn't even place higher than 5th in the MVP voting when putting up one of the best seasons in recent history.

Thome-i really like the guy, a true slugger in every sense of the word. if his name stays squeaky clean, he should get in. honest omission on my behalf.

Hoffman-closers have a really, really hard time getting in. i think he will be viewed as a compiler in the eyes of the voters. that is not to say that he won't eventually get in but he is by no means a shoe in.

By making those two comments, you are saying that 3,000 hits and 500 (possibly 600) home runs are no longer Hall of Fame benchmarks.

Do you agree with that? I do believe they would be the only players at their prospective level of achievements (hits/hrs) not to be in the Hall if they didn't make it.

Biggio is a first-ballot HOFer

Believe me, I completely agree with you. Over his entire career, the only 2nd baseman in his realm was Robbie Alomar.

I also believe Bagwell is a 1st/2nd ballot guy, Thome the same and Hoffman will get in early too (much like Mo Rivera will).

I do see people balking on Helton, just because of the Coors Field effect though.

As for Piazza, well, I was a huge fan of his for his entire career, so I am completely biased (but statistically backed) when I say he is a 1st/2nd ballot guy. He was one of the best offensive players up until he went to the AL and one of the greatest offensive catchers of all time.

EDIT:Long night of work, so i didn't put the "bagwell did steroids so biggio did them too" rumor together, my bad.[/quote:2wx3z6sz]
so Piazza is "one" of the best hitting catchers of all time say you. now tell us all who was a better hitting catcher then he was? this should be interesting.

 

[soonerfreak]

Pete Rose, I don't think anyone but Shoeless Joe even comes close to being robbed of the HOF.