When a newbie seller tries to tell a player collector what something should cost

[autocut]

MansGame....I don't try and "squeeze every penny" I can out of a card. I was just telling Mozzie, if I make $5 on a card, I'm ok with it, that's just me, cause if you give good deals, those people will always come back to you. But he doesn't understand, and this is the point I was trying to make..

If I have $15 in a card, I am selling for $20, to make $5, I can't sell it to him for $12, cause I am losing money, he, nor some people can't grasp that. I am all for deals, and giving deals too, but NOT for a loss, that's just common sense,but life is 2 things............

#1 . Common Sense
#2 Respect...

Unfortunately in this world, some people have neither

You don't have to justify anything. Your cards. You do how you see fit since you paid for them.

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[Mozzie22]

Ok Mozzie...#1 . Worry about your own life, family, and income, before you try and tell me "to find another source of income". Apparently you think it's cool to say ignorant things like that, but I guess that shows your maturity lvel, or lack there of.

I happen to very blessed in my life to have a wife, kids, and great job, that affords me the luxery if you will of being able to be BOTH a dealer, and a collector, so again, worry about your own life, and get a better source of income, and maybe you too can be both a collector, and dealer, and you can understand both sides of this industry, instead of tyring to"act" like you know both, cause it's very obvious to see that YOU sir, don't understand it, but since you are prob a "young whippesnapper", I can understand how you can't comprehend business.

I make plenty of money as a dealer, and I deal with guys like you every show I do, and I like how you just ignore my questions about business. I was only trying to give my opinion, and you took this, and ran with it, trying to act like you know everything, since you are a "real collector", which I seem to wonder about.


As for being a COLLECTOR: Mozzie, I have been collecting over 40+ years, and there have been PLENTY of times, that I have not gotten a card, that I wanted in my PC. I can't speak for how other people try, and collect, I can only speak for myself. If there is a card that I want, whether at a show. or off of a friend of mine, I see what they are asking for it. If they are asking $150, and I feel that I would only like to spend $100 on it, and we can't agree, then I'm ok with, and I move on. He or whoever is free to ask what they want, and no big deal to me, I personally won't lowball him, as apparently you do, and say "Oh, I can only offer you $50". And if that's how you are, then more power to you.

As a DEALER: This is where you, and I have a BIG difference, and what you can't comprehend, but then again, this is also how you are, so why can't you answer the question, is that hard for you, or won't you answer cause you don't know business.

Let's again say I bought a card off Ebay for $15, cause that's the "market", it's selling for, and the card is only worth $50. So I say, I'm going to sell it for $20, that way, I make something, and a guy like YOU who comes to my table, who collects that particular person, offers me $12, cause that's all your willing to pay for it, and it's a card that you really want. How can I sell it to you for $12, when I have $15 in it. Mozzie, I am selling it for a LOSS. What part of that is NOT registering with you?. It wouldn't matter Mozzie if it was cards, retail, whatever....If you are trying to make money, you can NEVER sell for a LOSS. So with that being said, are you the type of guy, that b****** to other people, "Man that guy wouldnt sell it to me for $12", I bet you are, but you don't see the other side. You only see, and hear, what you want to see, and hear.

It's easy for a guy/kid that you, to try and tell a dealer what they should sell something for. Now, If I have a card,I don't have much in, sure I would cut a break, to a collector, or another buyer/dealer. But if I have something I have alot in, I can't just "give it away", that's what you dont get. So DON'T ever try and tell me I am not a trye "collector", cause this isn't my "first rodeo" in this hobby my friend, I am just trying to show both sides of it from a perspective.

To me, if you want a card BAD enough, you will pay the piper. If not, then fine, move on, and maybe you can find it somewhere else down the line. You just don't understand that sometimes, you have to take in account, what that person has in a particular card, and if they are a TRUE dealer, they will tell you, so you can understand their point of it, instead of crying that you didnt' get it, cause they wouldn't "give it away to you, cause you collect that player".

Wow. Don't really know where to start with this hot garbage but here we go... First of all, I understand the Business 101 you're so, um, "eloquentely" trying to explain. You can't buy high and sell low to make a profit. I think everybody understands this. Before you write another book explaining that let me cut you off. You're simply not understanding. When you start throwing words like "profit" out you've crossed over to the dark side. You expect some collector to come up to your table and just go, "Huh, that's more than these should be selling for but this poor schmuck probably lost his ass on box breaks so I guess I'll bite the bullet and pay his price to offset his poor business practices."

You may think of yourself as a collector but don't confuse yourself with a "true" collector. You had to drop that word when you started trying to earn a profit off of the very people you claim to be a part of.
Now you've been a member on this site for all of five minutes so let me give you some good advice: when you decide to weigh in on a thread that is fairly one-sided with an opposing viewpoint, you're probably going to wish you hadn't. Now be well, I hope you make your first million screwing over guys like me.

 

[autocut]

I love the saying "pay the piper" - not because I think that's right but because I just appreciate my dealings with true collectors and those who mean well in the hobby and not try to cut every corner and squeeze every penny out of every single person they run up against. People can do whatever the hell they want with their own cards but I just really appreciate my dealings with true collectors who are reasonable and don't try to work every avenue to get the next penny out of their card. I tend to treat people how I would want to be treated. I bet most of these clowns would never be in a thread call "Free to go home" because to them everything has a value and they would never give anything away for the good of the hobby or a community. It's sad to have some of these guys in the hobby IMO.

"Good of the hobby". I love that saying. With all of the forgeries, bogus memorabilia, expensive packs. Lets see... When card companies have a representative present when athletes sign their cards or stickers, when proper paperwork is required for all memorabilia, when packs are affordable for kids again. When integrity becomes a priority, then maybe more people will do more for the "good of the hobby". Until the companies lead by example, maybe more people will follow.

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[bcubs]

If a seller has something I want and we can't come to agreement on price, I move on without it. I don't see the point in making snide comments about the seller or complaining. He wanted X, which I felt was not reasonable, and would not accept Y, so we did not make a deal. I'm not sure where the venom comes from here other than envy on the part of the person who is unable to acquire the item they want.

 

[smapdi]

Yes, that's exactly where it comes from.

 

[autocut]

If a seller has something I want and we can't come to agreement on price, I move on without it. I don't see the point in making snide comments about the seller or complaining. He wanted X, which I felt was not reasonable, and would not accept Y, so we did not make a deal. I'm not sure where the venom comes from here other than envy on the part of the person who is unable to acquire the item they want.

+1

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[George_Calfas]

If a seller has something I want and we can't come to agreement on price, I move on without it. I don't see the point in making snide comments about the seller or complaining. He wanted X, which I felt was not reasonable, and would not accept Y, so we did not make a deal. I'm not sure where the venom comes from here other than envy on the part of the person who is unable to acquire the item they want.

*Disclaimer: not saying it is the following in this case*

Entitlement, often times players collectors and set collectors feel as if they can assert their will on a seller by claiming what "fair market value." Yes, they watch and bid on similar items but 1/1s are a tricky market; work out the price or move on.

 

[jbhofmann]

If you guys are going to have a dick measuring contest, please limit it to 200 characters.

 

[MansGame]

Post and go to lunch and come back with what seems like a lot of people making comments in my direction...

My post about "Pay the piper" was not directed at anyone in particular... it was a comment which was just about how I smile when I think about all the good dealings I've had with others in the hobby... they can be dealers or whatever but at the end of the day, it really makes me happy to think about all the good dealings I've had with some people and try to think of those every time I run up against someone who could care less and wants to just make me "pay the piper" for a card.

That's it. Not an attack on anyone. Again, sellers own cards they sell and they can do whatever they want with them.

With regards to the comments "they're the sellers cards and they can do whatever they want with them", etc. - I agree with this but it also doesn't give them the power to be d!cks in dealing with me or anyone else that is trying to purchase what they're dealing out. If someone is being a d!ck to them first, then maybe it's warranted... but just because a seller owns the item being discussed and hopefully sold, doesn't mean they can be a jerk and just act like a king and try and boss said potential buyer around.

 

[autocut]

If you guys are going to have a dick measuring contest, please limit it to 200 characters.

This is a family friendly site, so that would be a Chaney measuring contest.

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[autocut]

Post and go to lunch and come back with what seems like a lot of people making comments in my direction...

My post about "Pay the piper" was not directed at anyone in particular... it was a comment which was just about how I smile when I think about all the good dealings I've had with others in the hobby... they can be dealers or whatever but at the end of the day, it really makes me happy to think about all the good dealings I've had with some people and try to think of those every time I run up against someone who could care less and wants to just make me "pay the piper" for a card.

That's it. Not an attack on anyone. Again, sellers own cards they sell and they can do whatever they want with them.

With regards to the comments "they're the sellers cards and they can do whatever they want with them", etc. - I agree with this but it also doesn't give them the power to be d!cks in dealing with me or anyone else that is trying to purchase what they're dealing out. If someone is being a d!ck to them first, then maybe it's warranted... but just because a seller owns the item being discussed and hopefully sold, doesn't mean they can be a jerk and just act like a king and try and boss said potential buyer around.

Well, in this case, the seller wasnt being a Chaney. He just wasn't budging on his price.

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[jbhofmann]

This is a family friendly site, so that would be a Chaney measuring contest.

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Mine's this big....

 

[MansGame]

Well, in this case, the seller wasnt being a Chaney. He just wasn't budging on his price.

Let me be clear... my stance on the card I'm bend out of shape about isn't because I feel like I KNOW the value and am ENTITLED to the card at MY price. Period. It's the way the seller treated me and talked to me via discussions about said card. Again, he spoke to me like he was a king and had all the goods and I should be a peasant and beg for mercy as he holds the card over me and treats me like crap. Sorry but I would NEVER do that to another person in the hobby if I trip, fell and landed on a 1/1 that was of high demand by a small group of collectors.

Again, I tend to treat others the way I would want to be treated if the tables were turned... I will tell you that I'm 1000% sure this seller wasn't acting that way because he wouldn't of wanted the treatment I got if I had a card he wanted badly and he was contacting me about potentially purchasing.

 

[autocut]

Let me be clear... my stance on the card I'm bend out of shape about isn't because I feel like I KNOW the value and am ENTITLED to the card at MY price. Period. It's the way the seller treated me and talked to me via discussions about said card. Again, he spoke to me like he was a king and had all the goods and I should be a peasant and beg for mercy as he holds the card over me and treats me like crap. Sorry but I would NEVER do that to another person in the hobby if I trip, fell and landed on a 1/1 that was of high demand by a small group of collectors.

Again, I tend to treat others the way I would want to be treated if the tables were turned... I will tell you that I'm 1000% sure this seller wasn't acting that way because he wouldn't of wanted the treatment I got if I had a card he wanted badly and he was contacting me about potentially purchasing.

Honestly I think you are being overly sensitive in this situation. Only going by the post.

I offered $200 for this card to figure out where the seller was at. I figured he didn't know much about what he had, since he's a (0) feedback seller. He declines my offer and sends me the following note with the decline: "Sorry yall are not even close, this card is worth more than 400.00. This is a steal at 400, only one produced, still in the box top wrapper."

I sent him another offer for $300, and it's as high as I'll probably go, unless he just tries to squeeze another $20 out of me or something. I also sent him a note with the offer detailing the prices I paid for one of the dual rip cards with Yount and Braun, as well as the price I paid for the wood mini.

For starters, you assumed he didn't know much about his cards since he had 0 feedback. That basically got the wheels going. What was so rude about him feeling his 1/1 is worth more than 400? It sounded like an episode of Pawn Stars. It just didn't end the same way. Not trying to sound mean as that's not my intention at all, but honestly, what does the prices YOU paid for cards have to do with the value of HIS card? What did he say specifically that made you feel like "he was a king and had all the goods and I should be a peasant and beg for mercy as he holds the card over me and treats me like crap."? With what's posted, that's why i think you were overly sensitive.

 

[MansGame]

^That bottom quote is not me by the way.

 

[predatorkj]

Look, Sports Cards dude, I think you miss the point that it's not about making money. Nobody here is ostracizing anyone for that. We all know dealers gotta make money. But as a collector, I'd like to pay the going rate. If its a 1/1 we'll talk but I base that on the player. You collect any player long enough and you do get the feel of what their stuff goes for. Especially based on the type of card and numbering.

So if you paid whatever it is you paid for a card, you'll either field offers and accept one. Or you won't. It's nobody else's concern what you have into a card. That's your business and your problem. Because if you went out and purchased a Bagwell 1/1 for $500, you're either going to take a loss or you're going to be keeping the card. Your call. It doesn't matter what you have into something if you overpay. It's your tough luck to deal with it.

Now I agree that people shouldn't lowball you but say you had that Bags and you ask $600, and I offered $150, I'm not lowballing you. I'm making a legit offer. If you tell me you paid five for it and can't take less than what you are asking, I'll walk because I know you overpaid and I'm not getting a deal done with you. You can tell me it's a 1/1 and how I can't possibly gauge the price etc. but I have yet to see a Bagwell go for that and I doubt I will. So if, after I'm walking away, you give me some rant about whatever you're upset about, at that point I'll just think you're dumb and lower my opinion of you. And in that instance, in that situation, you kind of created that monster. Not me.

So feel free to ask what you'd like for your cards. Honestly I'm sure you are a fair guy. I believe that. But at no time does what you paid enter into my mind as my problem. It's your card. You're the one who has to make money. Not me.

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

Let me get this out of the way up front, so no one else has to say it: "It's his card, and he's entitled to think it's worth whatever he wants"

2013 Allen Ginter Robin Yount 1 1 Hidden Box Topper | eBay

I offered $200 for this card to figure out where the seller was at. I figured he didn't know much about what he had, since he's a (0) feedback seller. He declines my offer and sends me the following note with the decline: "Sorry yall are not even close, this card is worth more than 400.00. This is a steal at 400, only one produced, still in the box top wrapper."

I sent him another offer for $300, and it's as high as I'll probably go, unless he just tries to squeeze another $20 out of me or something. I also sent him a note with the offer detailing the prices I paid for one of the dual rip cards with Yount and Braun, as well as the price I paid for the wood mini.

Now, I know it can be annoying when people try and tell you that your card isn't worth what you're asking; but I would think I'm in a more unique position to have insight on what the value might be, as opposed to the seller.

IDK, maybe I'm being a *****, but I feel like Yount cards is my business, and this guy thinks he's going to tell me my business. Maybe when it doesn't sell for the $399 he's asking, he'll see ot my way; unless I get horn-swaggled by an insane Topps set collector who pays this guy's price. Whenever I see people asking insane prices, I feel like dropping them a line and saying "hey, if you ever get tired of relisting that card and actually want to sell it, hit me up. I'll tell you the NOT-insane price you should be asking."

Late to the party and all, but...

Lots of this first post, especially the bolded, makes it look (in my opinion, at least) like you took this interaction too personal. And maybe even came at the interaction from a sense of arrogance: he's a zero-feedback seller (which doesn't necessarily mean anything) and you're the Yount expert. You don't know this seller, and this seller doesn't know you. You don't know that he's not a Yount expert or an expert on that type of card, and he doesn't know that you are a Yount expert (so, when looking at it from knowing only what he knows, why should he take your word for the true 'value' of the card?).

And most of what he said was probably just negotiating tactics. Pump up the perceived value of the item he's selling, not him telling you your business. A little hype isn't so bad. If you look at it from that angle, you may not feel like he's insulting your expertise.

 

[hive17]

Late to the party and all, but...

Lots of this first post, especially the bolded, makes it look (in my opinion, at least) like you took this interaction too personal. And maybe even came at the interaction from a sense of arrogance: he's a zero-feedback seller (which doesn't necessarily mean anything) and you're the Yount expert. You don't know this seller, and this seller doesn't know you. You don't know that he's not a Yount expert or an expert on that type of card, and he doesn't know that you are a Yount expert (so, when looking at it from knowing only what he knows, why should he take your word for the true 'value' of the card?).

And most of what he said was probably just negotiating tactics. Pump up the perceived value of the item he's selling, not him telling you your business. A little hype isn't so bad. If you look at it from that angle, you may not feel like he's insulting your expertise.

Look, I fully agree that I probably took his response too personally, although I ask: what's not personal about a personal collection? Anyway, I'm sure I let the specter of "Big Bad Burbank" color my impression that "here's another seller that doesn't understand the value of something he has". Let's be clear, nothing has "value" until it's sold, and it ain't going to be sold if you don't understand the market.

As for assuming what he was and what he knew based on his feedback and asking price: you're right, I could be wrong; but when you have all the characteristics of someone who has never sold on eBay (which, BTW, he admitted this was the first time), I'm going to go ahead and make an educated guess.

It all worked out in the end anyway, as we both let go on the prices we were at and the card was picked up at the postal annex today.

 

[RAZOR-Z]

It all worked out in the end anyway, as we both let go on the prices we were at and the card was picked up at the postal annex today.

Congratz on the safe arrival! - This thread has made your card Legen *wait for it* dary... lol = You will think of this thread whenever you enjoy your card!

-AJ

 

[Sports Cards Fan Zone]

I will just agree to disagree with Mozzie. What he needs to learn, is when he buys that card off ebay, or at shows, he's buying from a dealer, so without us, he doesnt' get that card for his PC. As for what he calls my "poor business practices", I buy cheap, and I sell cheap, I do occasionally bust alot of wax, and if I get 30-40% back out of what I spent, then I am fine.

As for collecting, I do collect certain players, and I realize guys can sell for whatever the he** they want, that is their right. What gets me mad, is this:

Guys thinking they are "owed", or "entitled" to a dealer to get a card for pennies on the dollar, cause they are a "collector", that is what makes me mad, that sense of "entitlement", cause "I'm a collector"

I don't trust anyone saying they are a "true" collector, and here is why: (Now, I know internet is different), I'm speaking face-to-face..

I had a guy who was a Randy Moss "die-hard true collector" he says....The card was going for around $60 on Ebay, I cut him a break, sold it for $40, under the "market going rate" bs. 2 hours later, I find out the guy was a dealer, had it in his showcase for $75, so after that, if I am dealing with you face-to-face, I don't beleive that "true collector" bs, it's a shame, I have to feel that way, but it is what it is...

" I do wonder though if we go to see our a movie we like, and tell them we are a TRUE fan, and collector of merchandise, if they will cut us a deal, "for the better of the community", so we arent screwed over at the concession stand, cause we collect that movie star"?:lol: